Trials of Finding New Job
Discussion
Well, having just. resigned from a v well paid job with nothing to go to (first time ever - job was dreadful) I had better get my backside moving and line up something else for early next year.
There was lots to recommend the job (pay, proximity to home) but that was about it. And my foray into something outside the private sector has proved to be a short lived midlife crisis. Lesson learned - time to hit the network and head into the job market just as Brexit kicks in...
There was lots to recommend the job (pay, proximity to home) but that was about it. And my foray into something outside the private sector has proved to be a short lived midlife crisis. Lesson learned - time to hit the network and head into the job market just as Brexit kicks in...
Speak of the devil, the contract arrived couple hours ago. There is a bit on the PDF at the bottom for me to sign.
Is this enough for me to hand in my resignation letter now or should I sign, send off the document and wait for further response?
Is this enough for me to hand in my resignation letter now or should I sign, send off the document and wait for further response?
funkyrobot said:
I have never had to wait too long. Not weeks and weeks.
I spoke to the company that want to hire me about my contract. They said I'll have it when they get it finished. I'm due to start next Tuesday.
I spoke to the company that want to hire me about my contract. They said I'll have it when they get it finished. I'm due to start next Tuesday.
ToothbrushMan said:
Got a 2nd interview following Tuesdays interview ... interview is sometime in December
Can I make a suggestion? You mentioned a new food/excercise regime to get into this new suit - not sure of you've tried a keto diet before?Apologies if you're versed in the effects/side effects - if not, if you hit keto hard until maybe a week before the interview, the weight loss will be fast and you should be able to hit your target.
But the drawback will be you might have a bit of a mental fog/reduced mental acuity. So kick the keto a few days before the interview, you'll still be in your target weight range and your cognitive abilities will be back to being as sharp as they should be.
And don't put your buttons at risk of popping off mid interview due to falling off the wagon a couple of times!
Edited by ReverendCounter on Monday 29th October 19:20
Vyse said:
Speak of the devil, the contract arrived couple hours ago. There is a bit on the PDF at the bottom for me to sign.
Is this enough for me to hand in my resignation letter now or should I sign, send off the document and wait for further response?
Trying not to sound aggressive, but what else are you expecting to receive? They've made the offer in writing, so you're good to go. Obviously they could still pull out at any point up to and including the day you start, or even decide you're not the "right fit" while you are in probation. But there's only so far you can go in mitigating the risks of a move!Is this enough for me to hand in my resignation letter now or should I sign, send off the document and wait for further response?
My thinking was more to make the offer unconditional. So passing the background and reference checks before handing in notice. I should have no problem passing these. However getting the references passed would mean my employer finding out. But I understand what your saying, they could fire me on day 1.
Flooble said:
Trying not to sound aggressive, but what else are you expecting to receive? They've made the offer in writing, so you're good to go. Obviously they could still pull out at any point up to and including the day you start, or even decide you're not the "right fit" while you are in probation. But there's only so far you can go in mitigating the risks of a move!
ReverendCounter said:
ToothbrushMan said:
Got a 2nd interview following Tuesdays interview ... interview is sometime in December
Can I make a suggestion? You mentioned a new food/excercise regime to get into this new suit - not sure of you've tried a keto diet before?Apologies if you're versed in the effects/side effects - if not, if you hit keto hard until maybe a week before the interview, the weight loss will be fast and you should be able to hit your target.
But the drawback will be you might have a bit of a mental fog/reduced mental acuity. So kick the keto a few days before the interview, you'll still be in your target weight range and your cognitive abilities will be back to being as sharp as they should be.
And don't put your buttons at risk of popping off mid interview due to falling off the wagon a couple of times!
Edited by ReverendCounter on Monday 29th October 19:20
Vyse said:
My thinking was more to make the offer unconditional. So passing the background and reference checks before handing in notice. I should have no problem passing these. However getting the references passed would mean my employer finding out. But I understand what your saying, they could fire me on day 1.
Ah I see. Yeah, I think you're better off at least having "the discussion" with your boss now. Unless you think there is a particularly high risk of failing a check (presumably you're not applying for MI5 or something). Flooble said:
Trying not to sound aggressive, but what else are you expecting to receive? They've made the offer in writing, so you're good to go. Obviously they could still pull out at any point up to and including the day you start, or even decide you're not the "right fit" while you are in probation. But there's only so far you can go in mitigating the risks of a move!
I got "fired" once (from a job I'd had for several years) because the boss caught me looking at a jobsite on my lunchbreak. So realistically you don't want to run the risk of the background checks starting before you're spoken to your boss. Lots of firms outsource checks to e.g. Experian who can easily jump the gun; so your HR department may have already had an email checking on you!
Flooble said:
Vyse said:
My thinking was more to make the offer unconditional. So passing the background and reference checks before handing in notice. I should have no problem passing these. However getting the references passed would mean my employer finding out. But I understand what your saying, they could fire me on day 1.
Ah I see. Yeah, I think you're better off at least having "the discussion" with your boss now. Unless you think there is a particularly high risk of failing a check (presumably you're not applying for MI5 or something). Flooble said:
Trying not to sound aggressive, but what else are you expecting to receive? They've made the offer in writing, so you're good to go. Obviously they could still pull out at any point up to and including the day you start, or even decide you're not the "right fit" while you are in probation. But there's only so far you can go in mitigating the risks of a move!
I got "fired" once (from a job I'd had for several years) because the boss caught me looking at a jobsite on my lunchbreak. So realistically you don't want to run the risk of the background checks starting before you're spoken to your boss. Lots of firms outsource checks to e.g. Experian who can easily jump the gun; so your HR department may have already had an email checking on you!
First one, I set expectation that we'd and agree start date once background checks complete. They accepted. It meant I could then add on my notice period post-start date confirmation and didn't need to resign until checks completed.
Second one insisted they post a start date before background checks complete. I signed the contract but remained non committal on the start date. Then negotiated it more firmly until background checks were complete.
You have couple things in your favour. They're not going to spend a tonne of time and resource to then restart the recruitment process. Once background checks are done, you're the ideal candidate - fully cleared and ready to work, so they'll be amenable with a start date. Finally, even if you sign a contract, it's not nice, but you can refuse to work - even if it means quitting before you start. They don't have much recourse, so again they'll tend to work with you.
The main thing against you are technicalities in your background checks. Let's say they experience a business or budget setback because of market conditions, or a project blowing up in flames, they could look for an excuse in your background checks and withdraw the offer on a technicality - rather than take a reasonable approach because they want you. "This month is wrong. You lied." Essentially firing you on a technicality.
I would keep an open line of conversation. It's all a negotiation. I changed my start date twice on my new job which starts in Jan.
Re HR or your manager finding out. Know your employee rights. My approach was to risk not telling them background checks are being done by a potential new employer. If they found out, so what? "I'm always open to new opportunities and understanding the market." Shouldn't your current employer work a bit harder to keep and develop you? Women should always interview elsewhere - how do you know what you're worth? It also comes down to your yearly reviews. If you've set down development expectations and the company isn't pulling their weight, it'll be no surprise you're looking elsewhere. Just be prepared for the political fallout and being sidelined. If you're dead set on moving on, then it's a price worth paying.
Edited by silent ninja on Tuesday 30th October 13:32
Had another interview this morning. Company called me in the afternoon and offered me the job. It's in a factory doing the label work. It'll do though as I'm sick of office work.
Now in a predicament though because I have accepted two jobs. The first was last Thursday and I said yes (but haven't signed a contract) because I had nothing else on the cards. The one today has been turned around since then.
The first one will pay more, but it's a 0 hour contract and they still haven't told me how they pay you (it's based on a pay as you work system), still haven't sent me a contact to view (even though I have asked again) and it will be a lot of travelling.
The second job is less pay, but it's a 10 minute walk from home and it's a proper guaranteed working hours contract.
Can I get into any trouble by turning down the first one now? Yes, it doesnt look good and I'll probably annoy them, but they don't seem to be providing me with the info I need in the form of a contract.
Now in a predicament though because I have accepted two jobs. The first was last Thursday and I said yes (but haven't signed a contract) because I had nothing else on the cards. The one today has been turned around since then.
The first one will pay more, but it's a 0 hour contract and they still haven't told me how they pay you (it's based on a pay as you work system), still haven't sent me a contact to view (even though I have asked again) and it will be a lot of travelling.
The second job is less pay, but it's a 10 minute walk from home and it's a proper guaranteed working hours contract.
Can I get into any trouble by turning down the first one now? Yes, it doesnt look good and I'll probably annoy them, but they don't seem to be providing me with the info I need in the form of a contract.
funkyrobot said:
Had another interview this morning. Company called me in the afternoon and offered me the job. It's in a factory doing the label work. It'll do though as I'm sick of office work.
Now in a predicament though because I have accepted two jobs. The first was last Thursday and I said yes (but haven't signed a contract) because I had nothing else on the cards. The one today has been turned around since then.
The first one will pay more, but it's a 0 hour contract and they still haven't told me how they pay you (it's based on a pay as you work system), still haven't sent me a contact to view (even though I have asked again) and it will be a lot of travelling.
The second job is less pay, but it's a 10 minute walk from home and it's a proper guaranteed working hours contract.
Can I get into any trouble by turning down the first one now? Yes, it doesnt look good and I'll probably annoy them, but they don't seem to be providing me with the info I need in the form of a contract.
I would take the second one in a heartbeat...you'd probably make up the income difference in petrol not used etc.Now in a predicament though because I have accepted two jobs. The first was last Thursday and I said yes (but haven't signed a contract) because I had nothing else on the cards. The one today has been turned around since then.
The first one will pay more, but it's a 0 hour contract and they still haven't told me how they pay you (it's based on a pay as you work system), still haven't sent me a contact to view (even though I have asked again) and it will be a lot of travelling.
The second job is less pay, but it's a 10 minute walk from home and it's a proper guaranteed working hours contract.
Can I get into any trouble by turning down the first one now? Yes, it doesnt look good and I'll probably annoy them, but they don't seem to be providing me with the info I need in the form of a contract.
I also have zero trust in zero hour contracts.
after getting your contract and start day etc., I would just apologise to the first place, thank them for the opportunity, but explain that you had to take the closer opportunity to maintain the home life, and the lack of contracted hours meant that there was no guaranteed income. Then apologise again, and thank them again for the opportunity.
Then go the new place, enjoy the salary, enjoy walking to work and boss it up.
Thanks. I've just re read the offer email from the first job and it's conditional anyway. I need to pass a training course before they will offer me a contract. I guess that with no contract signed and the fact I've only accepted a conditional offer, I have no worries anyway as I won't be completing the course. 
funkyrobot said:
Thanks. I've just re read the offer email from the first job and it's conditional anyway. I need to pass a training course before they will offer me a contract. I guess that with no contract signed and the fact I've only accepted a conditional offer, I have no worries anyway as I won't be completing the course.
Nae dramas then!Still worth calling, thanking and apologising - you never know when you might be looking again!
NewbishDelight said:
Nae dramas then!
Still worth calling, thanking and apologising - you never know when you might be looking again!
Had a phonecall with the company earlier. Made my apologies and said unfortunately I can't take on a 0 hour contract. They seemed fully understanding and said thanks for being honest and upfront. Still worth calling, thanking and apologising - you never know when you might be looking again!
Offer letter and start date for recent job offer came through today so I was finally in the clear.
Vyse said:
When your current employer is asked to fill out a reference, does the future employer ever disclose info such as job title, job description etc?
? You mean will the new employer write to your current one saying "Mrs XXX has been offered a job as a Y doing Z"? Rather than just "We have offered Mrs XXX employment and seek a reference"?I've had all sorts of reference requests pass over my desk (which I usually have to bung straight to HR). There's no given rule what they put in the request letter. Often the referencing is outsourced anyway so you get a very blank pro-forma.
funkyrobot said:
Had a phonecall with the company earlier. Made my apologies and said unfortunately I can't take on a 0 hour contract. They seemed fully understanding and said thanks for being honest and upfront.
Offer letter and start date for recent job offer came through today so I was finally in the clear.
Re-sult then! Offer letter and start date for recent job offer came through today so I was finally in the clear.
Always good to be open about these things, and good to hear that the company aren't being pricks about it.
Good luck with the new role - deeply envious about the walk to work thing (I did that for six years, then had a 1 hour commute, now have a 1/2 hour commute...wish I was still walking!).
NewbishDelight said:
Re-sult then!
Always good to be open about these things, and good to hear that the company aren't being pricks about it.
Good luck with the new role - deeply envious about the walk to work thing (I did that for six years, then had a 1 hour commute, now have a 1/2 hour commute...wish I was still walking!).
Thanks.Always good to be open about these things, and good to hear that the company aren't being pricks about it.
Good luck with the new role - deeply envious about the walk to work thing (I did that for six years, then had a 1 hour commute, now have a 1/2 hour commute...wish I was still walking!).
It's just a factory based job, but it's a job and it's a quick walk there. I'll see how it goes.
When you need a job, you can't be picky.
I'll be looking after their labelling and doing various other jobs. I think that because of my work history, my new manager already has ideas for me. Pay isn't great, but it will cover the monthly house costs and leave me a few quid left over.
Thanks, it seems it can be a mixture then.
Flooble said:
? You mean will the new employer write to your current one saying "Mrs XXX has been offered a job as a Y doing Z"? Rather than just "We have offered Mrs XXX employment and seek a reference"?
I've had all sorts of reference requests pass over my desk (which I usually have to bung straight to HR). There's no given rule what they put in the request letter. Often the referencing is outsourced anyway so you get a very blank pro-forma.
I've had all sorts of reference requests pass over my desk (which I usually have to bung straight to HR). There's no given rule what they put in the request letter. Often the referencing is outsourced anyway so you get a very blank pro-forma.
signed on with another new "advisor" last week. first question was wheres my job search which I handed over. he didnt sign it or even look rmeotely interested in it so I filled the dead air with added waffle about past interviews and upcoming interviews and opportunities.
then he said what jobs are you applying for? - I said what I am qualified in and that that features heavily in my searching but I have been looking at piece work in factories, van driving, warehouse etc to no avail.
next question from him which sounded like one he had picked up or been brainwashed into asking at one his training sessions on how to get the backs up of customers - "your getting interviews - so tell me what challenges are you think you might be facing in not getting the jobs you are going for ?". The answers are too much competition/too many applicants, not knowing how many jobs advertised out there were filled months ago and should have been taken down or are fake posted by agencies just on fishing expeditions for your data, or they might be looking at me at 49 thinking too old, or they want 25 year olds with 20 years experience that they can get away with paying £20k a year, . I dont know why I am not getting offers.
Words cant describe how angry and crap he made me feel in equal measure. These days you are lucky to get an interview and since March I have had 12 interviews so really I would say I have done very well getting in front of people - the jobseekers claimant commitment does not extend to me second guessing why after months of applications and a dozen interviews I am not getting offers but you just felt that this new guy was looking for something that isnt there, something to trip me up, something to maybe get me a sanction?.
I answered by coyly by saying that I am not finding it any challenge at all - you dont know how to improve because most companies now do not give you any feedback or contact you after an unsuccessful interview despite whatever they might tell you in the interview. Companies just ghost you now if you are not going forward to the next stage. Id expect it from Bob & sons tinpot firms but not the huge well known multi-nationals.
I am doing everything in my claimant commitment ie; networking, getting interviews, the job searches, meeting people, writing articles to get me noticed, contacting people speculatively, putting in the research before my meetings, doing my homework ie; taking it all very seriously (all true but there was no way I was going to tell this guy me not getting offers was because of any "challenges" because next thing you know he is likely to register me with one of those cash cow "providers" they say are experts in helping people back into work - no they arent. these providers are useless - I had one on the work programme back in 2013 and it was such a waste of time but I bet they were raking in the cash at my expenses (yes I bet loads more than the £73 the DWP were paying me in JSA). If saving money is there goal I would ditch all these providers and just let people do their own job searching.
short of wearing a sandwich board that says "seeking work" on it and walking around town I dont know what else these people expect you to do for your £73 a week, But overall just soul destroying.
I had one great interview on Friday (another 2 hour affair with competency based questions and technical questions and some maths and grammar questions too) that I am waiting on for a second meet up and I have a second interview next month for another. If I dont get one of these 2 jobs I really will be gutted. 8 months now and zippo. Ive come close but no offers.
Once I do get a job I am seriously thinking of writing about my experiences on Linkedin and shaming companies into at least having the balls to give people who have spent a long time researching their firm and preparing for an interview some feedback that they can take to their next interview.
How can you improve your techniques at interview if they never tell you how you did?
then he said what jobs are you applying for? - I said what I am qualified in and that that features heavily in my searching but I have been looking at piece work in factories, van driving, warehouse etc to no avail.
next question from him which sounded like one he had picked up or been brainwashed into asking at one his training sessions on how to get the backs up of customers - "your getting interviews - so tell me what challenges are you think you might be facing in not getting the jobs you are going for ?". The answers are too much competition/too many applicants, not knowing how many jobs advertised out there were filled months ago and should have been taken down or are fake posted by agencies just on fishing expeditions for your data, or they might be looking at me at 49 thinking too old, or they want 25 year olds with 20 years experience that they can get away with paying £20k a year, . I dont know why I am not getting offers.
Words cant describe how angry and crap he made me feel in equal measure. These days you are lucky to get an interview and since March I have had 12 interviews so really I would say I have done very well getting in front of people - the jobseekers claimant commitment does not extend to me second guessing why after months of applications and a dozen interviews I am not getting offers but you just felt that this new guy was looking for something that isnt there, something to trip me up, something to maybe get me a sanction?.
I answered by coyly by saying that I am not finding it any challenge at all - you dont know how to improve because most companies now do not give you any feedback or contact you after an unsuccessful interview despite whatever they might tell you in the interview. Companies just ghost you now if you are not going forward to the next stage. Id expect it from Bob & sons tinpot firms but not the huge well known multi-nationals.
I am doing everything in my claimant commitment ie; networking, getting interviews, the job searches, meeting people, writing articles to get me noticed, contacting people speculatively, putting in the research before my meetings, doing my homework ie; taking it all very seriously (all true but there was no way I was going to tell this guy me not getting offers was because of any "challenges" because next thing you know he is likely to register me with one of those cash cow "providers" they say are experts in helping people back into work - no they arent. these providers are useless - I had one on the work programme back in 2013 and it was such a waste of time but I bet they were raking in the cash at my expenses (yes I bet loads more than the £73 the DWP were paying me in JSA). If saving money is there goal I would ditch all these providers and just let people do their own job searching.
short of wearing a sandwich board that says "seeking work" on it and walking around town I dont know what else these people expect you to do for your £73 a week, But overall just soul destroying.
I had one great interview on Friday (another 2 hour affair with competency based questions and technical questions and some maths and grammar questions too) that I am waiting on for a second meet up and I have a second interview next month for another. If I dont get one of these 2 jobs I really will be gutted. 8 months now and zippo. Ive come close but no offers.
Once I do get a job I am seriously thinking of writing about my experiences on Linkedin and shaming companies into at least having the balls to give people who have spent a long time researching their firm and preparing for an interview some feedback that they can take to their next interview.
How can you improve your techniques at interview if they never tell you how you did?
Edited by ToothbrushMan on Monday 12th November 15:03
ToothbrushMan said:
signed on with another new "advisor" last week. first question was wheres my job search which I handed over. he didnt sign it or even look rmeotely interested in it so I filled the dead air with added waffle about past interviews and upcoming interviews and opportunities.
then he said what jobs are you applying for? - I said what I am qualified in and that that features heavily in my searching but I have been looking at piece work in factories, van driving, warehouse etc to no avail.
next question from him which sounded like one he had picked up or been brainwashed into asking at one his training sessions on how to get the backs up of customers - "your getting interviews - so tell me what challenges are you think you might be facing in not getting the jobs you are going for ?"
Words cant describe how angry and crap he made me feel in equal measure. These days you are lucky to get an interview and since March I have had 12 interviews so really I would say I have done very well getting in front of people - the jobseekers claimant commitment does not extend to me second guessing why after months of applications and a dozen interviews I am not getting offers but you just felt that this new guy was looking for something that isnt there, something to trip me up, something to maybe get me a sanction?.
I answered by coyly by saying that I am not finding it any challenge at all - you dont know how to improve because most companies now do not give you any feedback or contact you after an unsuccessful interview despite whatever they might tell you in the interview. Companies just ghost you now if you are not going forward to the next stage. Id expect it from Bob & sons tinpot firms but not the huge well known multi-nationals.
I am doing everything in my claimant commitment ie; networking, getting interviews, the job searches, meeting people, writing articles to get me noticed, contacting people speculatively, putting in the research before my meetings, doing my homework ie; taking it all very seriously (all true but there was no way I was going to tell this guy me not getting offers was because of any "challenges" because next thing you know he is likely to register me with one of those cash cow "providers" they say are experts in helping people back into work - no they arent. these providers are useless - I had one on the work programme back in 2013 and it was such a waste of time but I bet they were raking in the cash at my expenses (yes I bet loads more than the £73 the DWP were paying me in JSA). If saving money is there goal I would ditch all these providers and just let people do their own job searching.
short of wearing a sandwich board that says "seeking work" on it and walking around town I dont know what else these people expect you to do for your £73 a week, But overall just soul destroying.
I had one great interview on Friday (another 2 hour affair with competency based questions and technical questions and some maths and grammar questions too) that I am waiting on for a second meet up and I have a second interview next month for another. If I dont get one of these 2 jobs I really will be gutted. 8 months now and zippo. Ive come close but no offers.
Once I do get a job I am seriously thinking of writing about my experiences on Linkedin and shaming companies into at least having the balls to give people who have spent a long time researching their firm and preparing for an interview some feedback that they can take to their next interview.
How can you improve your techniques at interview if they never tell you how you did?
Sorry to hear that, I feel your pain.then he said what jobs are you applying for? - I said what I am qualified in and that that features heavily in my searching but I have been looking at piece work in factories, van driving, warehouse etc to no avail.
next question from him which sounded like one he had picked up or been brainwashed into asking at one his training sessions on how to get the backs up of customers - "your getting interviews - so tell me what challenges are you think you might be facing in not getting the jobs you are going for ?"
Words cant describe how angry and crap he made me feel in equal measure. These days you are lucky to get an interview and since March I have had 12 interviews so really I would say I have done very well getting in front of people - the jobseekers claimant commitment does not extend to me second guessing why after months of applications and a dozen interviews I am not getting offers but you just felt that this new guy was looking for something that isnt there, something to trip me up, something to maybe get me a sanction?.
I answered by coyly by saying that I am not finding it any challenge at all - you dont know how to improve because most companies now do not give you any feedback or contact you after an unsuccessful interview despite whatever they might tell you in the interview. Companies just ghost you now if you are not going forward to the next stage. Id expect it from Bob & sons tinpot firms but not the huge well known multi-nationals.
I am doing everything in my claimant commitment ie; networking, getting interviews, the job searches, meeting people, writing articles to get me noticed, contacting people speculatively, putting in the research before my meetings, doing my homework ie; taking it all very seriously (all true but there was no way I was going to tell this guy me not getting offers was because of any "challenges" because next thing you know he is likely to register me with one of those cash cow "providers" they say are experts in helping people back into work - no they arent. these providers are useless - I had one on the work programme back in 2013 and it was such a waste of time but I bet they were raking in the cash at my expenses (yes I bet loads more than the £73 the DWP were paying me in JSA). If saving money is there goal I would ditch all these providers and just let people do their own job searching.
short of wearing a sandwich board that says "seeking work" on it and walking around town I dont know what else these people expect you to do for your £73 a week, But overall just soul destroying.
I had one great interview on Friday (another 2 hour affair with competency based questions and technical questions and some maths and grammar questions too) that I am waiting on for a second meet up and I have a second interview next month for another. If I dont get one of these 2 jobs I really will be gutted. 8 months now and zippo. Ive come close but no offers.
Once I do get a job I am seriously thinking of writing about my experiences on Linkedin and shaming companies into at least having the balls to give people who have spent a long time researching their firm and preparing for an interview some feedback that they can take to their next interview.
How can you improve your techniques at interview if they never tell you how you did?
A friend of mine was flown to the USA for a 3rd interview. They bought her flights and paid for the hotel and food etc. That was 2 years ago and she’s still waiting to hear back from them.
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