Contractors: IR35 & general discussion

[Dog Star]

Gazzab said:

Am afraid no one can provide an answer to this question without using words like ‘maybe, might and / or risk’.
You might never get a retro investigation, your insurance might cover you, they might only go back 6 years, they might go back further, it might be a horribly painful process regardless of insurance, the bill might be eye watering etc

I'm not sure exactly what they would investigate - I went perm in 2013 after 21 years contracting and last week I took all of my accounts, receipt, all paperwork etc going right back to 1991 off to the shredders. That's two LTD companies worth.

I'm not aware that I have to hang on to filing cabinets full of petrol receipts and the like for more than six years - so what exactly they would ever investigate is a mystery to me. I'm sure not losing sleep over it.

[aeropilot]

Anubis said:

HMRC have gone rogue and are making rules up as they go along so people fall foul of their own doing... very underhand. Its about a certain few in either the treasury or HMRC who have certain agendas and now see HMRC as a function to reap as much tax in any ruthless underhand way they can rather than simply collecting monies owed.

Is this really how a modern democracy should function?!

Of course not, but those days have long gone.

Sadly in my view, the rot set when Blair let unelected people like Alastair Campbell out into the full view of the public clearly showing who was pulling the strings in Govt.

That set the way for them all to follow in the same way and promote their own personal and unchecked agendas, whether civil service driven or Govt driven. Bozo Johnson now how his very own version of Campbell in that soap dodger Cummings.

[tighnamara]

May have been posted previously, interesting read.

https://www.itcontractor.com/ir35-contractor-blank...

[aeropilot]

tighnamara said:

May have been posted previously, interesting read.

https://www.itcontractor.com/ir35-contractor-blank...

Hmmmmm.......

This may account for the bit of last minute dot com backtracking and "well there might be some scope for a good will gesture on our behalf" management speak BS that has been forthcoming all of a sudden from my client since Monday.........

[Clockwork Cupcake]

Well, my client and I have just been through CEST together over the phone, answered truthfully, and....

... Outside IR35.

That's a big relief as it means I can continue the current engagement.

[Countdown]

tighnamara said:

May have been posted previously, interesting read.

https://www.itcontractor.com/ir35-contractor-blank...

I'm not sure why this is good news.

Linky said:

If client companies don’t take reasonable care, and blanket banning contractors is not taking reasonable care, they say, then the client company is liable for their contractors’ tax.

According to this new HMRC guidance document, fresh off the shelf, “The client must take reasonable care when determining whether the worker would have been an employee if they were engaged directly.

“If the client fails to take reasonable care, the responsibility for the deduction of tax, NICs and apprenticeship levy and paying these to HMRC will rest with them.”

If companies are "blanket banning Contractors" then they'll be deducting Tax/NI at source. So what MORE would they be liable for?

[Venturist]

Countdown said:

If companies are "blanket banning Contractors" then they'll be deducting Tax/NI at source. So what MORE would they be liable for?

Is the implication that if you were working outside, then they give you a blanket verdict of inside, that THEY’RE liable for the missed tax on work done to date?

Thinking aloud, not being facetious.

[aeropilot]

Countdown said:

tighnamara said:

May have been posted previously, interesting read.

https://www.itcontractor.com/ir35-contractor-blank...

I'm not sure why this is good news.

Forcing clients to do the assessments properly, based on individual role/task etc rather than writing up a one-size fits all assessment which is what my client has done......every contractor here from a high level technical 'associate' level role to the lady who does the document control.....everyone got a copy n paste of the same 'assessment'.
I think the wording in the link is misleading, and should blanket assessments rather than blanket banning of contractors, as that is what they go on to talk about?

[Countdown]

Venturist said:

Is the implication that if you were working outside, then they give you a blanket verdict of inside, that THEY’RE liable for the missed tax on work done to date?

Thinking aloud, not being facetious.

Thanks, that makes sense.

In that case.... good! What's sauce for the goose etc

[Bluedot]

aeropilot said:

Countdown said:

tighnamara said:

May have been posted previously, interesting read.

https://www.itcontractor.com/ir35-contractor-blank...

I'm not sure why this is good news.

Forcing clients to do the assessments properly, based on individual role/task etc rather than writing up a one-size fits all assessment which is what my client has done......every contractor here from a high level technical 'associate' level role to the lady who does the document control.....everyone got a copy n paste of the same 'assessment'.
I think the wording in the link is misleading, and should blanket assessments rather than blanket banning of contractors, as that is what they go on to talk about?

My concern with HMRC turning the heat up on clients is they'll just think this is all too much hassle now and pick up the phone to HP or Computacenter or.....Infosys, who knew eh ?

[aeropilot]

Countdown said:

Venturist said:

Is the implication that if you were working outside, then they give you a blanket verdict of inside, that THEY’RE liable for the missed tax on work done to date?

Thinking aloud, not being facetious.

Thanks, that makes sense.

In that case.... good! What's sauce for the goose etc

If so, even better

[Clockwork Cupcake]

Bluedot said:

My concern with HMRC turning the heat up on clients is they'll just think this is all too much hassle now and pick up the phone to HP or Computacenter or.....Infosys, who knew eh ?

We're not out of the woods yet. But also, we "ATE'NT DED" yet either.

[Blown2CV]

Bluedot said:

aeropilot said:

Countdown said:

tighnamara said:

May have been posted previously, interesting read.

https://www.itcontractor.com/ir35-contractor-blank...

I'm not sure why this is good news.

Forcing clients to do the assessments properly, based on individual role/task etc rather than writing up a one-size fits all assessment which is what my client has done......every contractor here from a high level technical 'associate' level role to the lady who does the document control.....everyone got a copy n paste of the same 'assessment'.
I think the wording in the link is misleading, and should blanket assessments rather than blanket banning of contractors, as that is what they go on to talk about?

My concern with HMRC turning the heat up on clients is they'll just think this is all too much hassle now and pick up the phone to HP or Computacenter or.....Infosys, who knew eh ?

who absolutely will not be able to deliver what they need, because like every big consultancy / SI, they will a) aim to minimise their bench so won't suddenly have 15 guys available to start Monday, for example and b) like any global, will be prioritising providing cheap people (offshore, grads etc) with massive margin and see how long they can get away with it for, rather than experienced local people with a good delivery record...

[Venturist]

Venturist said:

Is the implication that if you were working outside, then they give you a blanket verdict of inside, that THEY’RE liable for the missed tax on work done to date?

Thinking aloud, not being facetious.

Actually I don’t think that’s right. It reads to me like HMRC is trying the opposite: to catch a half asleep decision of Outside (not that it happens) and saying “if we catch you at it we’ll make you pay their taxes as if they were inside anyway”
In which case I think it’s no news.

[Bluedot]

Blown2CV said:

Bluedot said:

aeropilot said:

Countdown said:

tighnamara said:

May have been posted previously, interesting read.

https://www.itcontractor.com/ir35-contractor-blank...

I'm not sure why this is good news.

Forcing clients to do the assessments properly, based on individual role/task etc rather than writing up a one-size fits all assessment which is what my client has done......every contractor here from a high level technical 'associate' level role to the lady who does the document control.....everyone got a copy n paste of the same 'assessment'.
I think the wording in the link is misleading, and should blanket assessments rather than blanket banning of contractors, as that is what they go on to talk about?

My concern with HMRC turning the heat up on clients is they'll just think this is all too much hassle now and pick up the phone to HP or Computacenter or.....Infosys, who knew eh ?

who absolutely will not be able to deliver what they need, because like every big consultancy / SI, they will a) aim to minimise their bench so won't suddenly have 15 guys available to start Monday, for example and b) like any global, will be prioritising providing cheap people (offshore, grads etc) with massive margin and see how long they can get away with it for, rather than experienced local people with a good delivery record...

Absolutely.
But that doesn't mean it's not happening right now, it'll take a good year or so to play out.

[Greenmantle]

Wondering how best to reply to end clients and agencies who are sending me emails advertising roles.
The roles are within IR35 but rates haven't changed to reflect situation.
Obviously they have staffing issues with their current contractual obligations (current price to their end clients).
Anything to help our current situation!
Thanks

[Clockwork Cupcake]

Greenmantle said:

Wondering how best to reply to end clients and agencies who are sending me emails advertising roles.
The roles are within IR35 but rates haven't changed to reflect situation.

Business as usual - you tell them that you have the skills and experience to be able to help them out but the rate is too low.

Standard rate negotiation stuff.

[Greenmantle]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

Greenmantle said:

Wondering how best to reply to end clients and agencies who are sending me emails advertising roles.
The roles are within IR35 but rates haven't changed to reflect situation.

Business as usual - you tell them that you have the skills and experience to be able to help them out but the rate is too low.

Standard rate negotiation stuff.

sent:

Dear Sir / Madam

Thank you very much for your email.
I have all the skills required for the role advertised below and I am available immediately.
Unfortunately the remuneration offered does not reflect the additional Tax and NI (Employer and Employee) burden caused by the role being only available on a PAYE basis.
Hopefully the end client is willing to reconsider this and I am obviously available anytime to begin negotiation.
All the best.

[98elise]

hyphen said:

98elise said:

PSB1 said:

I had a look through my linkedin connections today. It's astonishing how many of them have recently retired, many before 'time'. i'm sure not all due to the changes, but that's a lot of experience and wisdom no longer available to the wider economy. Really stacking up those unintended consequences!

Will be me soon

Really? You never said before, countless times

Edited by hyphen on Tuesday 3rd March 21:19

More people have joined PH since I last said it, so I need to keep them in the loop

[hyphen]

I'm just jealous