Contractors: IR35 & general discussion

[Deep Thought]

98elise said:

markyb_lcy said:

Gazzab said:

You don’t want a job title of ‘looking for a job’. Agents still prefer people who are already working and/or search for specific job titles. ‘Looking for a job’ isn’t going to help anyone find you.

I’m not sure this applies well to contracting (though I definitely agree that for perm it rings true).

Companies who take on contractors want someone who is available within a week or two at worst (at least in my industry).

You could be a great candidate but if you’re not able to start for a month you’ll likely lose the opportunity perhaps to someone less qualified or experienced because they can start right away.

Also most contractors take a short break between contracts (often instead of unpaid holidays during contracts). So it looks perfectly normal to have your status as “looking” or better still “available”).

Edited by markyb_lcy on Wednesday 9th September 00:39

Agreed. First two questions from most recruiters has been...

1. What's your rate?
2. When are you available?

I guess it depends what they put their job title as - "Looking for a job" is not going to appear on as many recruited searches as "Python Developer - Immediate Availabilty".

I assume they search for job titles in the first instance, then experience from your profile.

[markyb_lcy]

Deep Thought said:

98elise said:

markyb_lcy said:

Gazzab said:

You don’t want a job title of ‘looking for a job’. Agents still prefer people who are already working and/or search for specific job titles. ‘Looking for a job’ isn’t going to help anyone find you.

I’m not sure this applies well to contracting (though I definitely agree that for perm it rings true).

Companies who take on contractors want someone who is available within a week or two at worst (at least in my industry).

You could be a great candidate but if you’re not able to start for a month you’ll likely lose the opportunity perhaps to someone less qualified or experienced because they can start right away.

Also most contractors take a short break between contracts (often instead of unpaid holidays during contracts). So it looks perfectly normal to have your status as “looking” or better still “available”).

Edited by markyb_lcy on Wednesday 9th September 00:39

Agreed. First two questions from most recruiters has been...

1. What's your rate?
2. When are you available?

I guess it depends what they put their job title as - "Looking for a job" is not going to appear on as many recruited searches as "Python Developer - Immediate Availabilty".

I assume they search for job titles in the first instance, then experience from your profile.

Searching for job titles *should* also match previous job titles in your history (I think we are talking LinkedIn here?)

I don’t see the point making your job title “available” or “looking” really, if we are talking about LinkedIn, as that site offers a distinct indicator for displaying your availability for and attitude towards new roles whilst still being able to retain a generic job title.

[Deep Thought]

markyb_lcy said:

Searching for job titles *should* also match previous job titles in your history (I think we are talking LinkedIn here?)

I don’t see the point making your job title “available” or “looking” really, if we are talking about LinkedIn, as that site offers a distinct indicator for displaying your availability for and attitude towards new roles whilst still being able to retain a generic job title.

Yeah if their search capability searches previous roles in your profile by default then great.

Indeed yes - i just had a look there and yes you can put all that in your preferences so probably a moot point to add "immediate availabilty" to the job title now.

[98elise]

Deep Thought said:

98elise said:

markyb_lcy said:

Gazzab said:

You don’t want a job title of ‘looking for a job’. Agents still prefer people who are already working and/or search for specific job titles. ‘Looking for a job’ isn’t going to help anyone find you.

I’m not sure this applies well to contracting (though I definitely agree that for perm it rings true).

Companies who take on contractors want someone who is available within a week or two at worst (at least in my industry).

You could be a great candidate but if you’re not able to start for a month you’ll likely lose the opportunity perhaps to someone less qualified or experienced because they can start right away.

Also most contractors take a short break between contracts (often instead of unpaid holidays during contracts). So it looks perfectly normal to have your status as “looking” or better still “available”).

Edited by markyb_lcy on Wednesday 9th September 00:39

Agreed. First two questions from most recruiters has been...

1. What's your rate?
2. When are you available?

I guess it depends what they put their job title as - "Looking for a job" is not going to appear on as many recruited searches as "Python Developer - Immediate Availabilty".

I assume they search for job titles in the first instance, then experience from your profile.

Apologies I think I was skim reading the previous answer. Rate and availability seem to trump best fit, however yes I agree with you that title is important for them to find you in the first place.

My title doesn't change, only my status.

[Bluedot]

I'm getting bombarded with messages through LinkedIn etc for hired.com, anyone ever used them ?
Their marketing seems ridiculously simple, this is from the front of their site:

How It Works
Answer a Few Questions
Companies Send You Offers with Upfront Compensation
Choose, interview, and accept an offer

I'm sure it's as simple as that

I get more and more wary these days of fake profiles/companies on places like LinkedIn harvesting all your info for scamming purposes (although to be fair, I don't think hired.com is like that).

I got the following email earlier, total scam if you ask me:

I am reaching out after seeing your profile while looking for cloud decision-makers. I’m working on behalf of a market research company who is looking to gather the point of view of professionals with experience in public cloud strategy. This will be a 15 minute online & anonymous survey compensated at US $80.
Let me give you a little bit more context on the goal there: our client is interested in collecting insights pertaining to adoption and implementation of public cloud strategies, business outcomes, etc. After you complete their survey, you will be redirected to our payment page where you can redeem your US $80 compensation with options for global visa or master cards or a donation to a charity.
If you are interested in participating, just reply to this email and I will send you the secure link to our client survey. Looking forward to working with you.

[Gad-Westy]

Would I be right in saying that jobserve is mainly geared towards IT sector? I've been keeping an eye on it since it was mentioned on this thread but absolutely nothing has popped up in terms of mechanical engineering. It's quiet at the moment but not quite that quiet so maybe it's just not the best place to look?

[98elise]

Gad-Westy said:

Would I be right in saying that jobserve is mainly geared towards IT sector? I've been keeping an eye on it since it was mentioned on this thread but absolutely nothing has popped up in terms of mechanical engineering. It's quiet at the moment but not quite that quiet so maybe it's just not the best place to look?

I would think so. I was a Business Analyst. Filtering BA contract jobs in London only, added in the last 1 day, gets about 200 hits.

[ITP]

200 new jobs in one day, in one city?
Seems I need to retrain as a business analyst!
How can there be anyone out of work with so many opportunities!

Don’t get anywhere near that amount advertised in a whole year, never mind one day, in the whole of the the uk, and Europe combined. Probably, like I said earlier, because 98% are filled by word of mouth in my industry.

[98elise]

ITP said:

200 new jobs in one day, in one city?
Seems I need to retrain as a business analyst!
How can there be anyone out of work with so many opportunities!

Don’t get anywhere near that amount advertised in a whole year, never mind one day, in the whole of the the uk, and Europe combined. Probably, like I said earlier, because 98% are filled by word of mouth in my industry.

Its still pretty competitive. There are lots of jobs, but also lots of candidates, especially in a recession. My first contract job took me 3 months to find and at that point I had about 15 years experience and was also a competent PL/SQL developer.

In the current climate there will be hundreds of applicants for each BA job.

That said if you are an Engineer then BA is something you could do with a little training. I was an Engineer before I went into IT and the attributes of an Engineer have a lot in common with Business Analysis.

[rustyuk]

DevOps seems to be at the top of the stack at the moment.

Good luck everyone!!

[bigandclever]

98elise said:

ITP said:

200 new jobs in one day, in one city?
Seems I need to retrain as a business analyst!
How can there be anyone out of work with so many opportunities!

Don’t get anywhere near that amount advertised in a whole year, never mind one day, in the whole of the the uk, and Europe combined. Probably, like I said earlier, because 98% are filled by word of mouth in my industry.

Its still pretty competitive. There are lots of jobs, but also lots of candidates, especially in a recession. My first contract job took me 3 months to find and at that point I had about 15 years experience and was also a competent PL/SQL developer.

In the current climate there will be hundreds of applicants for each BA job.

That said if you are an Engineer then BA is something you could do with a little training. I was an Engineer before I went into IT and the attributes of an Engineer have a lot in common with Business Analysis.

“Business analyst”; contract; in London; in the last day gets 38 hits.
Business analyst; contract; in London; in the last day gets 238 hits.

Then you take out the dupes (like the Lloyds ones), and the obvious ‘not business analyst’ roles (like the social media data scientist, or the senior JavaScript developer), and the ‘not actually in London’ ones like the Reading or Cambridge ones, and the ones that look like they’re just fishing, and you end up with realistically less than 10. Though that’s still 10 more than I’ve seen in my niche on jobswerve for a month

Edited by bigandclever on Thursday 10th September 15:06

[Pit Pony]

Gazzab said:

You don’t want a job title of ‘looking for a job’. Agents still prefer people who are already working and/or search for specific job titles. ‘Looking for a job’ isn’t going to help anyone find you.

And yet I've just advised someone that looking for a job is a full time job, so if you really really hate where you currently work, and it's making you ill, and you can afford it, just resign.

[Gazzab]

Pit Pony said:

Gazzab said:

You don’t want a job title of ‘looking for a job’. Agents still prefer people who are already working and/or search for specific job titles. ‘Looking for a job’ isn’t going to help anyone find you.

And yet I've just advised someone that looking for a job is a full time job, so if you really really hate where you currently work, and it's making you ill, and you can afford it, just resign.

Agreed but not sure why you quoted me?

[98elise]

bigandclever said:

98elise said:

ITP said:

200 new jobs in one day, in one city?
Seems I need to retrain as a business analyst!
How can there be anyone out of work with so many opportunities!

Don’t get anywhere near that amount advertised in a whole year, never mind one day, in the whole of the the uk, and Europe combined. Probably, like I said earlier, because 98% are filled by word of mouth in my industry.

Its still pretty competitive. There are lots of jobs, but also lots of candidates, especially in a recession. My first contract job took me 3 months to find and at that point I had about 15 years experience and was also a competent PL/SQL developer.

In the current climate there will be hundreds of applicants for each BA job.

That said if you are an Engineer then BA is something you could do with a little training. I was an Engineer before I went into IT and the attributes of an Engineer have a lot in common with Business Analysis.

“Business analyst”; contract; in London; in the last day gets 38 hits.
Business analyst; contract; in London; in the last day gets 238 hits.

Then you take out the dupes (like the Lloyds ones), and the obvious ‘not business analyst’ roles (like the social media data scientist, or the senior JavaScript developer), and the ‘not actually in London’ ones like the Reading or Cambridge ones, and the ones that look like they’re just fishing, and you end up with realistically less than 10. Though that’s still 10 more than I’ve seen in my niche on jobswerve for a month

Edited by bigandclever on Thursday 10th September 15:06

Obviously they always tail off in match as you drop down the list, but most contract jobs I've got have not been in the close matches. The last role I had was advertised as a process analyst. Process models are something BA's can do but it's just one of many skills rather then being an expert.

When looking for roles I would normally find 3 or 4 close matches every day. They would get a covering letter detailing the matched between my CV and the advert. They would also get a modified CV (using the same terms as the advert).

I would then find about another 10 that had some sort of match. They would get a bulk application of my standard CV, and a generic covering letter with rate, availability etc (the shotgun approach).

[AndrewO]

Tricky thing about having more than one cv is your linkedin profile would also need to match. Or maybe you leave linkedin empty on detail ? That might lose you more than gain.

I had one yesterday, client wanted more of one thing than another. The fact I have 20yrs doing what he wants missed the spot because the CV/linkedin is focused on a specialisation. I use to have a few cv's going in the past but can't really do that now as everyone is going to look at your linkedin profile.

[Olivera]

It's Friday night and I've opened a beer - any contractors got something interesting of the 4 wheeled variety?

[Pit Pony]

Olivera said:

It's Friday night and I've opened a beer - any contractors got something interesting of the 4 wheeled variety?

The company I'm contracting to is bidding on a contract for a foreign military organisation to automate lots of HMMWVs and track laying vehicles used in warfare. Hope they get it. I did the rough arsed finger in the air, fag packet project plan, and I'd quite like to be paid to redo it and then manage it.

Another project I am managing for them, we need to borrow a marina slip way to do some underwater testing of an unmanned track laying vehicle, which is green, both because it's electric and painted in NATO green.

[Clockwork Cupcake]

My current contract kind of fell on my lap due to a speculative email from an agent. Which was nice.

[CzechItOut]

AndrewO said:

Tricky thing about having more than one cv is your linkedin profile would also need to match. Or maybe you leave linkedin empty on detail ? That might lose you more than gain.

I had one yesterday, client wanted more of one thing than another. The fact I have 20yrs doing what he wants missed the spot because the CV/linkedin is focused on a specialisation. I use to have a few cv's going in the past but can't really do that now as everyone is going to look at your linkedin profile.

I keep the job titles on my LinkedIn generic and then having different CVs which emphasis certain specialisations and domain experience.

I don't think your LinkedIn and CVs have to match. I see LinkedIn as my public profile and CVs are far a more detailed resume I am prepared to share with only certain people.

[T5R+]

CzechItOut said:

........CVs are far a more detailed resume I am prepared to share with only certain people.

I get this. In fact have a 1-page CV that recruiters receive and tend to ask for it to be fleshed whilst C-Suite and B-Level seem to appreciate the summary 1 pager.

Naturally, the "pimp" (a contractor's endearing terminology for a recruitment professional) gets the 4-pager CV but only if mutual interest and we have agreed (or not) suitability of role after speaking.

Ironically, only ever been approached a handful of times via LinkedIn in nearly 2 decades. Obviously, I must be doing something wrong.