Trials of Finding New Job

[creampuff]

ToothbrushMan said:

I have just read an article on Linkedin stating that apparently 3 in 5 companies are struggling to find skilled workers to fill their vacancies. My mind cannot compute this.

Edited by ToothbrushMan on Thursday 13th September 10:06

It’s bullst.

There have never been more qualified and educated people than there are now.

It’s one of these things:
- There are skilled workers, but they want to pay them less than they are willing to work for
- There is genuinely nobody who has exactly the experience, but they can’t come to grips with the fact that even moderately intelligent people can figure out things for themselves, even when they haven’t done exactly that thing before
- They really just want to outsource the whole position to a low cost country like Bangladesh
- They don’t know what the job entails themselves, so they don’t know what to look for
- People lie on surveys or put down what they think the situation is rather than put down what they are actually doing
- They are clueless

[funkyrobot]

creampuff said:

ToothbrushMan said:

I have just read an article on Linkedin stating that apparently 3 in 5 companies are struggling to find skilled workers to fill their vacancies. My mind cannot compute this.

Edited by ToothbrushMan on Thursday 13th September 10:06

It’s bullst.

There have never been more qualified and educated people than there are now.

It’s one of these things:
- There are skilled workers, but they want to pay them less than they are willing to work for
- There is genuinely nobody who has exactly the experience, but they can’t come to grips with the fact that even moderately intelligent people can figure out things for themselves, even when they haven’t done exactly that thing before
- They really just want to outsource the whole position to a low cost country like Bangladesh
- They don’t know what the job entails themselves, so they don’t know what to look for
- People lie on surveys or put down what they think the situation is rather than put down what they are actually doing
- They are clueless

Very true.

The company I am leaving has been acting bizarrely in the way they are searching for new staff. They won't pay good money, they want to hire juniors to do senior jobs, they will not speak to agencies, but will hire people who reside in different countries on the cheap (then moan when the work done is terrible), they turn down clever people because they are 'too much', and for some reason, if you know your stuff and query the way they do things, you are out of the door.

The amount of time I've spent working with buggy, crap software that doesn't match the spec is crazy. All because the dev team is too small and full of juniors. Oh yes, they also have more manager job titles than non manager job titles. Not sure how that works.

[ToothbrushMan]

egor110 said:

Have you tried going on the post ?

£11.50 hour , soon to be 35 hour week and 5 weeks holidays and no real pressure as you can still finish on time if you want .

good call with the postie work but the only roles i have seen wer part time hours 15-25hours. full time 35 a week would get my interest. is it still worth sticking an application in?

also another thing that slows you down is when you see a great vacancy and you click on "APPLY" only for you to be redirected to another part of the site that requires you to register with them and then set up yet another user name and password - this I really do hate but is a necessary evil if you want to apply.

[ToothbrushMan]

just registered and applied with RM anyway for some seasonal work. pays just enough to keep paying the mortgage......

[deckster]

ToothbrushMan said:

just registered and applied with RM anyway for some seasonal work. pays just enough to keep paying the mortgage......

Definitely worth doing I reckon. Who do you think is going to be first in line when a full-time post comes up?

[ToothbrushMan]

applied for one post but boy how painful is the online application. all for £7.83 an hour. FFS.

I clicked apply then saw another vacancy in the same local area and went to apply for that then gave up as it wasnt letting me use my existing profile to just click apply (like multi apply) and I wasnt going to go through repeating myself again and ticking all the boxes - this is what makes finding work so bloody frustrating. and half the time you hoop jump and never hear a word back.

painful that was and heaven help us if that data ever got out in the open because they literally ask for every bit of personal data on you. I wonder if you get such questions if you are applying for the CEO role? scary.

[egor110]

deckster said:

ToothbrushMan said:

just registered and applied with RM anyway for some seasonal work. pays just enough to keep paying the mortgage......

Definitely worth doing I reckon. Who do you think is going to be first in line when a full-time post comes up?

You’d still have to do all the online stuff to apply for a permanent job, pretty sure they outsource the xmas temps to a agency .

Once you’ve done the online application you’d have to go for the part time hours , everyone I know who wants to go full time has been able to . That’s in a office of 120 staff.

[RizzoTheRat]

funkyrobot said:

I guess I need to look at signing on too. Don't know if I can though. I resigned from my last role due to a bully of a manager. I thought you had to be sacked to get financial help? I did mention my issues in my resignation letter though.

Edited by funkyrobot on Thursday 13th September 22:53

Pretty sure you still qualify for JSA of you've been paying national insurance for the last few years, I did when I took voluntary redundancy.
But even if you're not eligible its worth signing on as they'll pay your NI meaning there's no gap when it comes to pensions.

[funkyrobot]

RizzoTheRat said:

funkyrobot said:

I guess I need to look at signing on too. Don't know if I can though. I resigned from my last role due to a bully of a manager. I thought you had to be sacked to get financial help? I did mention my issues in my resignation letter though.

Edited by funkyrobot on Thursday 13th September 22:53

Pretty sure you still qualify for JSA of you've been paying national insurance for the last few years, I did when I took voluntary redundancy.
But even if you're not eligible its worth signing on as they'll pay your NI meaning there's no gap when it comes to pensions.

Thanks.

I've had a phone interview today with a national retail chain. Got through that and meet and greet and assessment of my abilities is on Monday. It's only a 16 hour job, but it's a start. Better than nothing.

If nothing comes from that I'll sign on whilst I look for other things.

[funkyrobot]

ToothbrushMan said:

applied for one post but boy how painful is the online application. all for £7.83 an hour. FFS.

I clicked apply then saw another vacancy in the same local area and went to apply for that then gave up as it wasnt letting me use my existing profile to just click apply (like multi apply) and I wasnt going to go through repeating myself again and ticking all the boxes - this is what makes finding work so bloody frustrating. and half the time you hoop jump and never hear a word back.

painful that was and heaven help us if that data ever got out in the open because they literally ask for every bit of personal data on you. I wonder if you get such questions if you are applying for the CEO role? scary.

The application I did the other day that resulted in the phone interview today was painful. That is 7 odd quid an hour too. They want me in on Monday to do a two hour assessment now.

The application went into great detail, but didnt ask for a covering letter. Then, after adding all of the info in, the person who did my phone interview today asked me questions based on my application. All that time spent and I still got asked things like 'do you currrently work' today.

For Monday's interview, I need passport, proof of NI, proof I can work in the UK etc. I wouldn't be surprised if they asked for a blood and urine sample at the assessment.

[ToothbrushMan]

funkyrobot said:

ToothbrushMan said:

applied for one post but boy how painful is the online application. all for £7.83 an hour. FFS.

I clicked apply then saw another vacancy in the same local area and went to apply for that then gave up as it wasnt letting me use my existing profile to just click apply (like multi apply) and I wasnt going to go through repeating myself again and ticking all the boxes - this is what makes finding work so bloody frustrating. and half the time you hoop jump and never hear a word back.

painful that was and heaven help us if that data ever got out in the open because they literally ask for every bit of personal data on you. I wonder if you get such questions if you are applying for the CEO role? scary.

The application I did the other day that resulted in the phone interview today was painful. That is 7 odd quid an hour too. They want me in on Monday to do a two hour assessment now.

The application went into great detail, but didnt ask for a covering letter. Then, after adding all of the info in, the person who did my phone interview today asked me questions based on my application. All that time spent and I still got asked things like 'do you currrently work' today.

For Monday's interview, I need passport, proof of NI, proof I can work in the UK etc. I wouldn't be surprised if they asked for a blood and urine sample at the assessment.

mate.....your last line just made me laugh out loud. brilliant. ending the week on a sort of high.

lets keep going though eh........we know it is not easy this job hunting lark.

heres one for you........i am tired of agencies ringing you up that youre already registered with yet colleagues of the person you have been dealing with at those same agencies rings you up but wants to cover old ground about your current situation and what youre looking for etc.....next time I get that I will say to them why not speak to such and such as he or she already knows all about me and its on file .

also today saw a role in the smoke which is the last place on earth I want to work in but the salary is 45-65k range so the cost of a season ticket can be covered easily. i had to find out the salary range for myself via google. i messaged this one agent who had posted the job on her profile on linkedin and asked what is the salary range - not had a peep out of her since ! its just pot luck it seems.

[funkyrobot]

ToothbrushMan said:

mate.....your last line just made me laugh out loud. brilliant. ending the week on a sort of high.

lets keep going though eh........we know it is not easy this job hunting lark.

heres one for you........i am tired of agencies ringing you up that youre already registered with yet colleagues of the person you have been dealing with at those same agencies rings you up but wants to cover old ground about your current situation and what youre looking for etc.....next time I get that I will say to them why not speak to such and such as he or she already knows all about me and its on file .

also today saw a role in the smoke which is the last place on earth I want to work in but the salary is 45-65k range so the cost of a season ticket can be covered easily. i had to find out the salary range for myself via google. i messaged this one agent who had posted the job on her profile on linkedin and asked what is the salary range - not had a peep out of her since ! its just pot luck it seems.

I've only been looking again seriously this week and have been trying to avoid agencies. So far, I've got through to the interview on Monday without the use of any agencies.

Agencies suck big time. I have only ever been placed in one role by an agency and it turned out to be a nightmare. When looking in the past, I've registered with many agencies and not one has found me anything or even contacted me since I registered with them. I spoke to a consultant on the phone in January 2017 about my wishes to change career. Her advice was don't bother.

They all want your CV to boost their candidate stock, but it's a struggle to find any that do anything useful.

I had an email out of the blue on Tuesday from an agency I registered with two years ago. It's the first thing I've heard back. The email was so blatantly auto generated because they started the message with a hello to my first name and then middle name.

Re LinkedIn, I removed my profile from there last year. I guess I may need to look at it again soon if the job hunting isn't successful. However, it seems like a crappy version of Facebook to me that is pretty much run by recruitment consultants.

[evilmunkey]

The only agency i use is Reed, for one reason, you can refine the filter to search only jobs advertised by the employer usualy resulting in better info and a direct link to the employers application site. cuts out a lot of usual agency bullst

[Flibble]

funkyrobot said:

Re LinkedIn, I removed my profile from there last year. I guess I may need to look at it again soon if the job hunting isn't successful. However, it seems like a crappy version of Facebook to me that is pretty much run by recruitment consultants.

It is, but it can be quite efficient. I had two offers through linked in last time I was looking.

One annoyance is that recruiters just ignore the "in not interested in a new job" checkbox, as I'm still getting loads of messages about jobs now. It does feel like there's a bit of a shortage in my field at least given how desperate they all seem, sadly most of the jobs are the other end of the country.

[ToothbrushMan]

evilmunkey said:

The only agency i use is Reed, for one reason, you can refine the filter to search only jobs advertised by the employer usualy resulting in better info and a direct link to the employers application site. cuts out a lot of usual agency bullst

useful tip that mate. cheers

[silent ninja]

funkyrobot said:

creampuff said:

ToothbrushMan said:

I have just read an article on Linkedin stating that apparently 3 in 5 companies are struggling to find skilled workers to fill their vacancies. My mind cannot compute this.

Edited by ToothbrushMan on Thursday 13th September 10:06

It’s bullst.

There have never been more qualified and educated people than there are now.

It’s one of these things:
- There are skilled workers, but they want to pay them less than they are willing to work for
- There is genuinely nobody who has exactly the experience, but they can’t come to grips with the fact that even moderately intelligent people can figure out things for themselves, even when they haven’t done exactly that thing before
- They really just want to outsource the whole position to a low cost country like Bangladesh
- They don’t know what the job entails themselves, so they don’t know what to look for
- People lie on surveys or put down what they think the situation is rather than put down what they are actually doing
- They are clueless

Very true.

The company I am leaving has been acting bizarrely in the way they are searching for new staff. They won't pay good money, they want to hire juniors to do senior jobs, they will not speak to agencies, but will hire people who reside in different countries on the cheap (then moan when the work done is terrible), they turn down clever people because they are 'too much', and for some reason, if you know your stuff and query the way they do things, you are out of the door.

The amount of time I've spent working with buggy, crap software that doesn't match the spec is crazy. All because the dev team is too small and full of juniors. Oh yes, they also have more manager job titles than non manager job titles. Not sure how that works.

I can relate to all of this.

My Manager and other senior managers just don't understand the job - nor do they want to. Ultimately, they view the team as worker "cogs" that do stuff. They don't appreciate the detailed knowledge needed, time, skills, nor do they want to invest in these things. It's the old industrial culture overhanging - it does not work in today's world but the mindset persists.

For the last 5 years, my manager has been chewing out generalists. She hires them to do a specific job, which they obviously can't do to the standard needed because they don't have the skillset or experience. They struggle, eventually can't cope. She places blame on them, and forces them out. Four people have gone off for bullying and stress in the last 12 months alone (in a team of 14 that's pretty high) - yet senior management seem to ignore the common denominator and her awful track record of new hires.

I'm leaving in the next 2-3 months and can't wait to throw it in her face. I've had awesome 360 feedback, and have escaped her claws, but she's not allowed me to progress in to other roles so it's time for me to take matters in to my own hands (as I always have done - career progression is my responsibility not my employers). It will be the best conversation ever.

[ToothbrushMan]

silent ninja said:

funkyrobot said:

creampuff said:

ToothbrushMan said:

I have just read an article on Linkedin stating that apparently 3 in 5 companies are struggling to find skilled workers to fill their vacancies. My mind cannot compute this.

Edited by ToothbrushMan on Thursday 13th September 10:06

It’s bullst.

There have never been more qualified and educated people than there are now.

It’s one of these things:
- There are skilled workers, but they want to pay them less than they are willing to work for
- There is genuinely nobody who has exactly the experience, but they can’t come to grips with the fact that even moderately intelligent people can figure out things for themselves, even when they haven’t done exactly that thing before
- They really just want to outsource the whole position to a low cost country like Bangladesh
- They don’t know what the job entails themselves, so they don’t know what to look for
- People lie on surveys or put down what they think the situation is rather than put down what they are actually doing
- They are clueless

Very true.

The company I am leaving has been acting bizarrely in the way they are searching for new staff. They won't pay good money, they want to hire juniors to do senior jobs, they will not speak to agencies, but will hire people who reside in different countries on the cheap (then moan when the work done is terrible), they turn down clever people because they are 'too much', and for some reason, if you know your stuff and query the way they do things, you are out of the door.

The amount of time I've spent working with buggy, crap software that doesn't match the spec is crazy. All because the dev team is too small and full of juniors. Oh yes, they also have more manager job titles than non manager job titles. Not sure how that works.

I can relate to all of this.

My Manager and other senior managers just don't understand the job - nor do they want to. Ultimately, they view the team as worker "cogs" that do stuff. They don't appreciate the detailed knowledge needed, time, skills, nor do they want to invest in these things. It's the old industrial culture overhanging - it does not work in today's world but the mindset persists.

For the last 5 years, my manager has been chewing out generalists. She hires them to do a specific job, which they obviously can't do to the standard needed because they don't have the skillset or experience. They struggle, eventually can't cope. She places blame on them, and forces them out. Four people have gone off for bullying and stress in the last 12 months alone (in a team of 14 that's pretty high) - yet senior management seem to ignore the common denominator and her awful track record of new hires.

I'm leaving in the next 2-3 months and can't wait to throw it in her face. I've had awesome 360 feedback, and have escaped her claws, but she's not allowed me to progress in to other roles so it's time for me to take matters in to my own hands (as I always have done - career progression is my responsibility not my employers). It will be the best conversation ever.

keep us posted silent ninja!

talking of not investing in things and you mentioned industrial culture etc......my last employer actually must have ended up spending a small fortune on what they called their "culture and diversity" division - no money for decent pay rises or some extra bonuses when put in silly hours but all of sudden we had plenty of money to spend on rampant self promotion about the company culture and "its beliefs" etc. utter bks it was - it all sounded very nice and flowery but had zero contribution to the workloads and the business. utterly pointless. they would send us (we had 25,000 globally) cards every month or two with culture "messages", they would say how things were in a company that had set up a new culture "helpline" for use by its employees. I was tempted to ring them at one point and ask "what do you do around here exactly?" They pumped some serious money into that new department but IMHO it was all about being flash to outsiders - look how caring we are of our employees, look at our diversity etc. total smoke and mirrors. an unnecessary business expense. they even ran seminars and course in far flung overseas destinations for talks about it ! you couldnt make it up......

[funkyrobot]

ToothbrushMan said:

silent ninja said:

funkyrobot said:

creampuff said:

ToothbrushMan said:

I have just read an article on Linkedin stating that apparently 3 in 5 companies are struggling to find skilled workers to fill their vacancies. My mind cannot compute this.

Edited by ToothbrushMan on Thursday 13th September 10:06

It’s bullst.

There have never been more qualified and educated people than there are now.

It’s one of these things:
- There are skilled workers, but they want to pay them less than they are willing to work for
- There is genuinely nobody who has exactly the experience, but they can’t come to grips with the fact that even moderately intelligent people can figure out things for themselves, even when they haven’t done exactly that thing before
- They really just want to outsource the whole position to a low cost country like Bangladesh
- They don’t know what the job entails themselves, so they don’t know what to look for
- People lie on surveys or put down what they think the situation is rather than put down what they are actually doing
- They are clueless

Very true.

The company I am leaving has been acting bizarrely in the way they are searching for new staff. They won't pay good money, they want to hire juniors to do senior jobs, they will not speak to agencies, but will hire people who reside in different countries on the cheap (then moan when the work done is terrible), they turn down clever people because they are 'too much', and for some reason, if you know your stuff and query the way they do things, you are out of the door.

The amount of time I've spent working with buggy, crap software that doesn't match the spec is crazy. All because the dev team is too small and full of juniors. Oh yes, they also have more manager job titles than non manager job titles. Not sure how that works.

I can relate to all of this.

My Manager and other senior managers just don't understand the job - nor do they want to. Ultimately, they view the team as worker "cogs" that do stuff. They don't appreciate the detailed knowledge needed, time, skills, nor do they want to invest in these things. It's the old industrial culture overhanging - it does not work in today's world but the mindset persists.

For the last 5 years, my manager has been chewing out generalists. She hires them to do a specific job, which they obviously can't do to the standard needed because they don't have the skillset or experience. They struggle, eventually can't cope. She places blame on them, and forces them out. Four people have gone off for bullying and stress in the last 12 months alone (in a team of 14 that's pretty high) - yet senior management seem to ignore the common denominator and her awful track record of new hires.

I'm leaving in the next 2-3 months and can't wait to throw it in her face. I've had awesome 360 feedback, and have escaped her claws, but she's not allowed me to progress in to other roles so it's time for me to take matters in to my own hands (as I always have done - career progression is my responsibility not my employers). It will be the best conversation ever.

keep us posted silent ninja!

talking of not investing in things and you mentioned industrial culture etc......my last employer actually must have ended up spending a small fortune on what they called their "culture and diversity" division - no money for decent pay rises or some extra bonuses when put in silly hours but all of sudden we had plenty of money to spend on rampant self promotion about the company culture and "its beliefs" etc. utter bks it was - it all sounded very nice and flowery but had zero contribution to the workloads and the business. utterly pointless. they would send us (we had 25,000 globally) cards every month or two with culture "messages", they would say how things were in a company that had set up a new culture "helpline" for use by its employees. I was tempted to ring them at one point and ask "what do you do around here exactly?" They pumped some serious money into that new department but IMHO it was all about being flash to outsiders - look how caring we are of our employees, look at our diversity etc. total smoke and mirrors. an unnecessary business expense. they even ran seminars and course in far flung overseas destinations for talks about it ! you couldnt make it up......

Have my two hour assessment tomorrow. For the £7 something an hour job.

Anyhow, your post above reminds me of the current company I work for and my last (I'm good at picking them). Current company is run by a bloke who feels everything is about the projection of wealth. Posh looking premises, some of the most expensive models built by BMW in the car park, house that cost just under half a million pounds, and all the bullcrap that comes with these things. Everything bought is on the tick, but it doesn't matter because it's how you look. Never mind the fact the work done is shoddy and the management is awful. If it looks expensive, flash it. Money for better equipment to work with, i.e. a laptop that doesn't require you removing the battery every time you start it? Nah. Money to provide a proper bike shelter for my bicycle, rather than a piece of metal open to the elements? Nah. Money for a proper fridge (as the company provides food for meetings). Nah. Bloody weird.

Oh yes, because of the way I worded my resignation (because my last grievance was a joke), I've been invited to another grievance meeting to discuss my letter.

At my last job, there was a big push to focus on the four core values of the American owned business. There were training days booked, staff hired to train on the values, tests to be done to check your understanding, websites setup, leaflets handed out, spot checks to test you etc. Never mind the fact that my old manager and his style made an absolute mockery of the values. If you didn't know them, you were in trouble. If you didn't apply them, it didn't seem to matter though. Bizarre.

[Moonhawk]

funkyrobot said:

At my last job, there was a big push to focus on the four core values of the American owned business. There were training days booked, staff hired to train on the values, tests to be done to check your understanding, websites setup, leaflets handed out, spot checks to test you etc. Never mind the fact that my old manager and his style made an absolute mockery of the values. If you didn't know them, you were in trouble. If you didn't apply them, it didn't seem to matter though. Bizarre.

Yep I have worked for a company like that. All of the meeting rooms had these values on the walls and there were posters in almost every corridor and office.

Words like honesty, integrity, quality etc. I have never worked for a company prior or since that allowed such blatant disregard for these things.

Part of my exit interview was pointing out the harsh fact that unless they apply, instill and uphold those values - they are just words on a wall.

[ToothbrushMan]

be interesting to hear how the interview went today.

those registered with agencies - there was a time when they would chase you but now you have to chase them. i havent heard from some of mine ( i tihnk i am with about 6 or agencies) for months.

i am also asking them for advice on how i can improve my prospects today so that will be interesting to hear what solid advice I receive whihc I will post up on here. I fully expect to receive no new advice - i really do think that finding a job these days is down to the person wanting the job as I hear very few people finding work through job centres or agencies (even those that only deal in non skilled or low paid manual labour).

I cant believe that after 8 months now I havent even landed a job putting tins on a shelf ! I am focused and doing all the right things to find work but its not happening.