Trials of Finding New Job
Discussion
toon10 said:
In my old position as an IT Manager, I've had recruitment agents visit me as I'm on their books as looking for new opportunities. It starts out to "see how my job search is going" but in reality they told me there's nothing that matches what I need right now but what sort of positions was I hiring in the IT team and what projects are coming up in the roadmap that may need extra resource. Total sales pitch and information gathering exercise.
Woah...what? Are you saying they're spying on you? With hidden cameras and microphones? Are you suggesting they're waterboarding you? Are you suggesting they're holding your first-born son for ransom....they never do that!!! You're Krrazy!!!Countdown said:
Woah...what? Are you saying they're spying on you? With hidden cameras and microphones? Are you suggesting they're waterboarding you? Are you suggesting they're holding your first-born son for ransom....they never do that!!! You're Krrazy!!!
They tried but I've given up all hope on my firstborn and turned my aspirations to my youngest. That's when the pliers came out and the interview turned dark... 
Countdown said:
Where have I said they're "spying" on staff? 
They want me to tell them, usually with their email addresses and direct line phone numbers.
IF you wanted them to give you good service they’d need those details. To say they want the details for other reasons is paranoia imo. They want me to tell them, usually with their email addresses and direct line phone numbers.bad company said:
IF you wanted them to give you good service they’d need those details. To say they want the details for other reasons is paranoia imo.
Do you think the primary purpose for them asking contact details for my direct reports and for HR was to(i) Give ME a good service? Or
(ii) Add to their contacts database of people to cold-call?
In relation to the second point I have literally heard them phoning my Senior Financial Accountant, asking him loads of questions about what we were doing in terms of recruitment and, when he finally manages to get rid, they immediately call the Senior Management Accountant two desks away and start going through the same list of questions (even down to asking him how his Football team is doing!). if they want to provide me with a "good service" it would help if they didn't waste my staff's time on stupid cold calling.
Countdown said:
Do you think the primary purpose for them asking contact details for my direct reports and for HR was to
(i) Give ME a good service? Or
(ii) Add to their contacts database of people to cold-call?
In relation to the second point I have literally heard them phoning my Senior Financial Accountant, asking him loads of questions about what we were doing in terms of recruitment and, when he finally manages to get rid, they immediately call the Senior Management Accountant two desks away and start going through the same list of questions (even down to asking him how his Football team is doing!). if they want to provide me with a "good service" it would help if they didn't waste my staff's time on stupid cold calling.
That’s not related just to recruitment, lots of companies in lots of industries do similar. Before getting into recruiting I worked in sales for TNT. Our salespeople were constantly looking for contacts to sell to/cold call. I don’t like being cold called either but it’s the way of the world.(i) Give ME a good service? Or
(ii) Add to their contacts database of people to cold-call?
In relation to the second point I have literally heard them phoning my Senior Financial Accountant, asking him loads of questions about what we were doing in terms of recruitment and, when he finally manages to get rid, they immediately call the Senior Management Accountant two desks away and start going through the same list of questions (even down to asking him how his Football team is doing!). if they want to provide me with a "good service" it would help if they didn't waste my staff's time on stupid cold calling.
bad company said:
Countdown said:
Do you think the primary purpose for them asking contact details for my direct reports and for HR was to
(i) Give ME a good service? Or
(ii) Add to their contacts database of people to cold-call?
In relation to the second point I have literally heard them phoning my Senior Financial Accountant, asking him loads of questions about what we were doing in terms of recruitment and, when he finally manages to get rid, they immediately call the Senior Management Accountant two desks away and start going through the same list of questions (even down to asking him how his Football team is doing!). if they want to provide me with a "good service" it would help if they didn't waste my staff's time on stupid cold calling.
That’s not related just to recruitment, lots of companies in lots of industries do similar. Before getting into recruiting I worked in sales for TNT. Our salespeople were constantly looking for contacts to sell to/cold call. I don’t like being cold called either but it’s the way of the world.(i) Give ME a good service? Or
(ii) Add to their contacts database of people to cold-call?
In relation to the second point I have literally heard them phoning my Senior Financial Accountant, asking him loads of questions about what we were doing in terms of recruitment and, when he finally manages to get rid, they immediately call the Senior Management Accountant two desks away and start going through the same list of questions (even down to asking him how his Football team is doing!). if they want to provide me with a "good service" it would help if they didn't waste my staff's time on stupid cold calling.
That said i'm reminded of an employer who was interviewing people for the sole purpose of pumping them for information, I got properly suckered into that one, having never experienced it before, the questions should have raised alarm bells tbh.
bad company said:
That’s not related just to recruitment, lots of companies in lots of industries do similar. Before getting into recruiting I worked in sales for TNT. Our salespeople were constantly looking for contacts to sell to/cold call. I don’t like being cold called either but it’s the way of the world.
Oh the old "everyone else is also s
t / bigger boys made me do it" excuse. Flibble said:
bad company said:
That’s not related just to recruitment, lots of companies in lots of industries do similar. Before getting into recruiting I worked in sales for TNT. Our salespeople were constantly looking for contacts to sell to/cold call. I don’t like being cold called either but it’s the way of the world.
Oh the old "everyone else is also st / bigger boys made me do it" excuse. In my previous job I was regularly emailed and rung up by a certain agency. I don't know why they contacted me or got my details as I didn't have any hiring authority. They probably got it from LinkedIn.
Anyway, its not in my nature to make things difficult for people; we've all got to make a living somehow, so I took the call, exchanged pleasantries and directed them to someone who could help.
At the end of January I was made redundant. It took until early July to start another job. The agency I am now working through is the one who contacted me at my previous job. I hadn't made the connection but the consultant pointed it out to me and said he appreciated that I took the time to have a conversation with him.
What I'm saying is be civil to these people as you never know when,or under what circumstances, you'll meet them again.
I've found that looking for a job is a numbers game, Apply for jobs, put your CV on relevant job boards, speak to recruitment consultants when they ring you. Just get yourself out there. Most of the time you won't hear back, put it behind you. A proportion of applications will lead to interviews, a proportion of interviews will lead to a job. You have to be pretty lucky, or special, to get a job from the first thing you apply to in my experience.Powerfully built PH Director types who dominate the stairs might find their experience is different.
One thing I'd say is that its well worth speaking to recruitment consultants when they ring you about a potential job. The huge majority of the time they do actually have a relevant job they want to talk to you about, once they've quizzed you to check what you can and want to do matches the job they have in mind. It's worth having a short "elevator pitch" to sum up what you do and what you want to do in a new job.
Anyway, its not in my nature to make things difficult for people; we've all got to make a living somehow, so I took the call, exchanged pleasantries and directed them to someone who could help.
At the end of January I was made redundant. It took until early July to start another job. The agency I am now working through is the one who contacted me at my previous job. I hadn't made the connection but the consultant pointed it out to me and said he appreciated that I took the time to have a conversation with him.
What I'm saying is be civil to these people as you never know when,or under what circumstances, you'll meet them again.
I've found that looking for a job is a numbers game, Apply for jobs, put your CV on relevant job boards, speak to recruitment consultants when they ring you. Just get yourself out there. Most of the time you won't hear back, put it behind you. A proportion of applications will lead to interviews, a proportion of interviews will lead to a job. You have to be pretty lucky, or special, to get a job from the first thing you apply to in my experience.Powerfully built PH Director types who dominate the stairs might find their experience is different.
One thing I'd say is that its well worth speaking to recruitment consultants when they ring you about a potential job. The huge majority of the time they do actually have a relevant job they want to talk to you about, once they've quizzed you to check what you can and want to do matches the job they have in mind. It's worth having a short "elevator pitch" to sum up what you do and what you want to do in a new job.
CoupeKid said:
...One thing I'd say is that its well worth speaking to recruitment consultants when they ring you about a potential job. The huge majority of the time they do actually have a relevant job they want to talk to you about...
I'm interested to know how you would know that to be a fact.singlecoil said:
I'm interested to know how you would know that to be a fact.
Fair enough, I'll wind my neck in , in my experience when I'm contacted by a recruiter they generally have a job in mind & they are just trying to establish whether you are a suitable fit first. Sometimes you get contacted by a researcher (a trainee) who is just tapping you for information trying to build a profile to put on their database. I can only think of a couple of times when I've been pumped for information about an employer when there's been no job.
CoupeKid said:
singlecoil said:
I'm interested to know how you would know that to be a fact.
Fair enough, I'll wind my neck in , in my experience when I'm contacted by a recruiter they generally have a job in mind & they are just trying to establish whether you are a suitable fit first. Sometimes you get contacted by a researcher (a trainee) who is just tapping you for information trying to build a profile to put on their database. I can only think of a couple of times when I've been pumped for information about an employer when there's been no job.
Xhenceval said:
Well, maybe another 150+ jobs applied for, multitude of levels, disciplines, industry etc. No success as yet, two face to face interviews and a telephone interview. One of the interviews, a very close second place. Great application process and feedback (for once). The other role, large international company that i wouldn't touch with a bargepole; very unprofessional behaviour and attitudes from the minute i set foot on their premises, including an interviewer whom was marginally hostile, wasn't paying attention and clearly had better things to do, did not actively engage, asked very few questions and kept telling me to carry on talking. At one point i had to ask the about what..."oh just pick anything from your CV"! (and this was a £60-70k role!).
A telephone interview with the hiring director (for a contract role heading up a function within a large multinational), went extremely well and was particularly keen on me. He needed to sleep on it, but S/C clearance really was needed so i was declined. He did tell me the role had just gone live on their career site, encouraged strongly that i apply (there would be plenty of time for gaining clearance), gave me the contact details of the senior HR person. Applied, try to contact the HR person by various means but to no avail. Received a 'thanks but no thanks' response from their system! Spoke to the director that i had previously talked to and sadly it was out of his hands, there was rigid governance in place, candidates had already been invited to telephone interviews!!!!
I'm at the end of my tether with all of this, it becomes a pointless exercise. Thinking back on just how much time i have spent (wasted) on trying to find a job over the last almost 3 years (except for a temporary job for c6 months via a colleague) makes me feel ill. Even the thought of starting another day looking for work makes me feel ill. And then there is the financial pressure, putting your life on hold - i really mean on hold, and so on. I really feel for others in this situation. I've tried networking, the funny thing is the volume of people one meets whom are in the same situation, so the 'networking' events end up with a large proportion of individuals seeking work or selling their 'consultancy'. Maybe some irony in all of that! Too many websites telling people looking for work to network!
My CV has been revamped. Again. I can't even continue with further professional development - because i can no longer afford it! Being critical, I've also noted that my confidence has possibly deteriorated in interviews, also the (business) language that i use isn't as refined or honed as it once was. I guess this is what being out of the workplace does for you. I suspect having that big blank on the CV, and my age, is not promoting me well anymore.
Still, back to looking and maybe i'll go onto CV Library and do some random clicking - success rate can't be any worse!
X
Man! That sounds tough. Do you not have any ability to do something self employed?A telephone interview with the hiring director (for a contract role heading up a function within a large multinational), went extremely well and was particularly keen on me. He needed to sleep on it, but S/C clearance really was needed so i was declined. He did tell me the role had just gone live on their career site, encouraged strongly that i apply (there would be plenty of time for gaining clearance), gave me the contact details of the senior HR person. Applied, try to contact the HR person by various means but to no avail. Received a 'thanks but no thanks' response from their system! Spoke to the director that i had previously talked to and sadly it was out of his hands, there was rigid governance in place, candidates had already been invited to telephone interviews!!!!
I'm at the end of my tether with all of this, it becomes a pointless exercise. Thinking back on just how much time i have spent (wasted) on trying to find a job over the last almost 3 years (except for a temporary job for c6 months via a colleague) makes me feel ill. Even the thought of starting another day looking for work makes me feel ill. And then there is the financial pressure, putting your life on hold - i really mean on hold, and so on. I really feel for others in this situation. I've tried networking, the funny thing is the volume of people one meets whom are in the same situation, so the 'networking' events end up with a large proportion of individuals seeking work or selling their 'consultancy'. Maybe some irony in all of that! Too many websites telling people looking for work to network!
My CV has been revamped. Again. I can't even continue with further professional development - because i can no longer afford it! Being critical, I've also noted that my confidence has possibly deteriorated in interviews, also the (business) language that i use isn't as refined or honed as it once was. I guess this is what being out of the workplace does for you. I suspect having that big blank on the CV, and my age, is not promoting me well anymore.
Still, back to looking and maybe i'll go onto CV Library and do some random clicking - success rate can't be any worse!
X
CoupeKid said:
Fair enough, I'll wind my neck in , in my experience when I'm contacted by a recruiter they generally have a job in mind & they are just trying to establish whether you are a suitable fit first. Sometimes you get contacted by a researcher (a trainee) who is just tapping you for information trying to build a profile to put on their database.
I can only think of a couple of times when I've been pumped for information about an employer when there's been no job.
It looks like you’ve been lucky. The “pumping” is the main reason I get called from RAs., in my experience when I'm contacted by a recruiter they generally have a job in mind & they are just trying to establish whether you are a suitable fit first. Sometimes you get contacted by a researcher (a trainee) who is just tapping you for information trying to build a profile to put on their database. I can only think of a couple of times when I've been pumped for information about an employer when there's been no job.
I’ve just realised Ive not had calls from one particular agency for a while but that’s probably because we’ve got two temps from them at the moment so the RA can get its information from the horse’s mouth so to speak.
Countdown said:
It looks like you’ve been lucky. The “pumping” is the main reason I get called from RAs.
I’ve just realised Ive not had calls from one particular agency for a while but that’s probably because we’ve got two temps from them at the moment so the RA can get its information from the horse’s mouth so to speak.
Paranoia. Have you thought about seeing a psychiatrist?I’ve just realised Ive not had calls from one particular agency for a while but that’s probably because we’ve got two temps from them at the moment so the RA can get its information from the horse’s mouth so to speak.
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