Graduated 2011 - No grad job, need further guidance.

[AnonymousCaller]

Edited by AnonymousCaller on Tuesday 14th August 00:44

[AnonymousCaller]

Hi Lazystudent!

With banking I have applied to a range of roles from treasury management at banks, bank operations to investment banking. I know it's broad, but I feel I can't limit myself to one particular area simply because it's tough out there IME.

I have no banking/finance related work experience and no internship/placement of any kind.

I've had a practice interview recently at my uni careers service - they thought it was very good... Perhaps I need to look elsewhere. I've also been reading interview books.

Do you think a week or so of relevant work experience is enough? I personally feel a few months is more like it (like an internship) although it's a big ask.

I appreciate your ramblings!

[AnonymousCaller]

What can Vince Cable do for me? (serious question)

johnfm said:

Are you a decent bloke?

Have you tried some networking on here or other forums frequented by bank types?

Send PMs to those you know on forums in banking. Introduce yourself. Arrange coffee or beer.

Meet bank people. Find out how to get internship etc.

PM me. I know a director level guy at a Jap bank. He used to be one of the guys also involved in hiring the grads.

I can make an intro*

*if you have good academics and are not a weirdo

Hi johnfm,

Yes I am a decent bloke. I have never tried networking on here or other forums used by bank types.

By meeting bank people I presume you mean going to PH Dirty Dicks drinks and pubs in the City and Canary Wharf area and just asking for experience?

I can't get an internship the normal way (penultimate year students only, blah blah blah - although I will try ringing direct to HR instead).

I have PM'd you - thank you very much for offering to make an intro for me. I confirm that I have good academics and I am not a weirdo.

hyperblue said:

Unfortunately you're in a bit of a catch 22 situation! Best of luck OP, my advice would be use your contacts to get some experience, or target SME's rather than the big guys!

Trying to use my personal contacts (already used up most of them). May I ask how you found a job at a SME? Did you just go on job boards such as Jobsite, Monster, etc.? A lot of them felt I was very inexperienced. Catch-22 doing my head in.

[AnonymousCaller]

Gargamel said:

Pm me your cv, I am a recruiter for a ftse firm, happy to read it over. Might have some ideas

Thanks for your help Gargamel.

I PM'd you, but can't attach CV to PM unless you want me to copy and paste text into PM box?

[AnonymousCaller]

Condi said:

Why the rush to get a City job? Go abroad to where the opportunities lie; you might not instantly get experience with what you want, but you have a long time to work in an office environment. Do all the daft and carefree things while you still can, ride out the worst of the recession in places which are still growing, and growing strongly. You never know, a banking career in Hong Kong, or trading shares on the Nikki might be a lot more preferable than dealing with monotonous back office operations in the UK for the next 40 years?

Just want financial independence really (I was actually hoping to get a 'grad' job offer around now to start Autumn then have a nice carefree summer).

I've been looking at jobs in Hong Kong - quite difficult to find what I want as an inexperienced person. Are you saying I consider less skilled jobs in HK (and other areas) just to get going?

Otispunkmeyer said:

Have you tried.... I think its called, Mount Batten or Batton or something....

Thanks but I don't meet the eligibility requirements (I need 12 months full-time office experience).

I very much agree with your comment about it being who you know.

Edited by AnonymousCaller on Friday 9th March 13:46

[AnonymousCaller]

Gargamel said:

YHM

Thanks, replied.

[AnonymousCaller]

CaptainSensib1e said:

Put together a short list of decent sized businesses you really want to work for. Then get a job with onw of them doing pretty much anything you can.

Sounds good. Thanks.

aucklander said:

Hye mate dont worry this is something of a common feeling. Its hard for sure because at your age a grad seems like THE path to success and happiness. It seems like other alternatives either do not exist or do not bear thinking about. I sympathise with you, grad positions are f---g hard to get, the firms will have 1000s of application (literally) and there is a hefty portion luck involved too. Maybe your CV will be read by a 20 something guy with similar interest to yours and he puts it through; maybe you get a 50 something lady who doesnt like your style. Same goes for the interviews.

However, please please try and remember that life will go on. If you are unsucessful in the next round of interviews maybe its time to change tack. Pack a bag and head off to south east asia. Travel places you never contemplated going, meet random travellers and just have a good time.

Come back to the UK with a different view things. You may be a bit more relaxed, easy going with a wide range of experience. Now some employers might show more interest. Maybe, as someone has remarked already on this thread, you will end up in a little firm with a range of responsibilities and find yourself sat in the middle of a growing operation. You never know. Just dont get hung up on the city. How many people do see smiling there? How many genuinely happy people have you met there? Some really do love it, and these are the ones the firms hire. If you dont genuinely love it, but only think you want it, then they sometimes see through this and it may be why you havent been hired. They dont think you will fit.

Anyway, thats my advice. Above all be confident. Dont be afraid to pick up the phone and ring the firms, ask if you can come in and have a look around and meet some staff. Dont beg for a job, just ask to learn a bit more about the firm. The poeple working there are often proud of the firm, they will be happy to talk to you about it all day long.

If you havent already try reading 'How to win friends and infleunce people'. Also consider doing some public speaking- join your local toastmasters club. Where im from there is a famous famous public speaking club located in the heart of the capital's business district. It was founded in the great depression by a bunch of men who wanted to make themselves more employable.

Finally, a little anecdote. Last night I went to a theatre show. I sat next to a lovely older woman; turns out her son was the writer/director/main actor in the show. She said he was a professional actor. The following quote stuck with me "He cant find any work so he has gone and made some for himself"/ Be proactive.

Good luck mate, feel free to drop me a line as im in a similar boat to you (just getting into my final year at uni and this month is grad recruitment month).

Thanks, you've made me feel a lot better! Having thought over things yesterday, in the short-term I'll be targeting SMEs then if I find nothing suitable, I'm off out of the UK. Decision made.

I've also bought the book. Should be an interesting read.

Hoofy said:

what kinds of jobs are you actually applying for? titles

investment banking analyst
wholesale/corporate banking analyst (global transaction banking, global debt capital markets)
corporate treasury analyst
bank operations analyst (more of a business role)
bank finance leadership scheme (i.e. accountant)
corporate or indirect tax trainee at professional services firms
insurance analyst (would have worked as an underwriter, in pricing or in finance)
some business management schemes (rotational roles in different business areas)
in-house finance schemes at big companies

In the past, I was contacted for all sorts from recruitment (not my thing) to statistician.

jjones said:

you have the education so maybe it is your social skills lacking, i find the "maintain good eye contact" a bit odd, maybe the interviewer is put off guard by you staring?

anyhow i would suggest reading Dale Carnegie How to win friends and influence people.

My social skills are definitely an area for development now (wasn't so in the past). With 'good eye contact' I meant maintaining eye contact when speaking but knowing not to stare and when to look away and where. Book is bought!

oldbanger said:

Network at expos and pubs, volunteer with elderly and homeless, build character.

I've not found any local(ish) banking/finance expos. I've not tried networking at pubs, put all my energy into grad schemes everyday for the past year. I've got nothing to lose now (pretty much stopped all the grad apps), will give that a go very soon.

With regards to volunteering for character building, being depressed about the whole 'jobs and will I have a future mentality' meant I became so reluctant to work with the elderly/ill/homeless. Makes me sound weak I know but I've been unhappy in other areas of my life and needed to do other things.

I want you to know that I do appreciate your advice though.

speedy thrills said:

Go abroad. Don’t be afraid to roll up your sleeves if it means you can get a job in the right industry, experience even in a position at a basic level won’t be held against you when you apply for a more desirable position. It might not be the job of your dreams (I am not a trader earning a telephone digit salary yet, however nor do I moonlight in the building trade anymore) but if you work diligently and always make yourself available it makes it difficult for an employer to decline you a position. Don't get stuck in the UK.

I very recently decided I will go abroad straightaway if things don't work out here quite soon. I will treat it as an adventure. Your post, along with others about going away, has inspired me.

Edited by AnonymousCaller on Sunday 11th March 12:07

[AnonymousCaller]

oldbanger said:

It might sound a bit patronising, but it's true. I ended up doing (paid, minimum wage) home care with the elderly and disabled for a couple of years in between "careers" whilst I ran a small business that didn't generate enough income to draw a wage. It was one of the best jobs I ever did. I was at a really low ebb and the work helped a lot to build me back up. It was the first time I ever got thanked directly and sincerely for something I'd done at work. It got me in touch with people after having been very isolated, plus I learnt to communicate and work with a lot of very challenging people - a skill I still use today, working in an office role.

I got a good red brick degree then went straight to a masters. I then ended up stuck in voluntary roles, internships and studentships, whilst doing admin for the family business on the side to pay the bills. Despite pursuing that "career" for the whole of my 20s, I never did get anywhere. Looking back I should have just gone and got a job in something/anything straight out of uni, rather than saving myself for my chosen career. I ended up going in at the bottom in my current line of work to a role that didn't even need a single degree.

If you are in the W Mids I know of an entry level role that's just about to be advertised that vaguely fits your list of preferred roles. If you are at all interested, PM me and I'd be happy to take a look at your CV (sanitised if you prefer).

Hi Oldbanger,

Thanks a lot for your post - I'm just having a small break from job hunting stuff. Very informative post regarding volunteering properly, perhaps I will give that a go later on.

Yep, I'll be looking at junior roles at small businesses.

Very kind of you to post about a role, unfortunately the West Midlands is too far for me!

steedy27 said:

started searching in my local area offering Graduate/Junior roles and happened to come across the position I have been offered. I was just wondering if you have done this or stuck to the larger multinational companies as some smaller companies can offer exactly what you are after?

I also found in some case's my experience gained in my placement year was more important than my actual degree so maybe you could offer your service for free to get your foot in the door

Hi Steedy27,

Thanks for your post. Last summer I had my CV up on job boards and so I was interviewing for SMEs, in addition to applying for the big grad employers.

Then I concentrated solely on the big grad schemes at around Winter up 'til now. I wasn't very good at interviews back then with SMEs (or big grad employers), I will be giving SMEs another go very soon.

Looking back I should have done a placement. I didn't because I thought I would struggle with my final year at uni. Never mind, I'll put the advice given here by you and the other posters to good use.
.
.
.
So on a final note, I'll be targeting SMEs over the next several weeks or so (obviously at the very junior level), if there is nothing suitable, I'll be off overseas!

Thanks a lot everyone!

[AnonymousCaller]

^Very interesting post, thanks a lot.

Very much agree with your point about doing nothing.

Just having a short break now though.

[AnonymousCaller]

Hi Matt,

Well, it's been quite an emotionally draining journey so far...

But you're probably right, I can't see myself doing 12-16 hour days, 6-7 days a week.

Based on what you have written, I've had a look at oil majors and I am too late for commodities trading. Most schemes are closed now.

Thanks for the offer of looking over my CV and generating ideas. I've sent you a PM.

What other industries and roles do you think would be worth going after?

Cheers!

[AnonymousCaller]

steedy27 said:

Yep most are all close up now, Maybe you could try getting some temporary work while you wait for the graduate roles to open again around Christmas.

Don't think I'll wait 'til Christmas - can't go through the pain of famous grad recruitment schemes again.

steedy27 said:

Whatever you do good luck, im sure everything will be fine! - I would love to work abroad, A close family member of mine is currently in Mexico City and loving it!

Thanks a lot!

[AnonymousCaller]

z4chris99 said:

I am at city, doing pt msc

Give me a pm I can help you

PM sent, thanks.

[AnonymousCaller]

NickHKent said:

Hi,

As mentioned previously I run a FS recruitment business. My first thought would be not to beat yourself up- It's tough out there. There are loads of experienced people who have been made redundant who cannot get back into the market, it is nothing to do with you personally.

Why investment banking?

I fancied the money and learning about financial markets in more depth, but I must stress that I did not limit myself to investment banking - I went for other posts I felt my degree would be suitable for.

What part of investment banking have you been focusing on (eg front office, middle, back?) You need to be strategic about how you sell yourself and each area of a business will require a different approach. Also be discreet- Front office won't touch you with a barge pole if you've also applied for an ops role.

I'm far from an expert in investment banking but here we go: last year I went for "investment banking analyst" (front office job description), "corporate debt capital markets" (front office job description), "global transaction banking" (unsure which office), "corporate treasury" (middle office), "corporate banking" (possibly front office) amongst other roles (non investment banking).

I've said this on another post but have you though about buy-side? The businesses are smaller which means you can have more impact on what you actually do, the investment strategies are very different (especially within long only businesses), and generally you will have a better work/life balance.

Had to look up what you meant by buy-side. Yes I did apply to a buy-side company, wasn't successful at interview (foolishly had too much on at the same time). Do you know of any good buy-side companies?

Don't bother with Goldman Sucks- a fantastic brand it may be but if you land an ops analyst role there you'll work from 0700-2100 for a £35k base with a big fat doughnut for a bonus.

Indeed, I'm the sort of person who needs some me time.

A lot of the job titles throughout the industry are very misleading so pay more attention to the role itself. Eg someone mentioned Prime Brokerage as if it's a "big deal". Yes it's an important revenue stream for the bank but ultimately all you are doing is an operations role but for an external client eg a hedge fund that has outsourced its bank office.

You're obviously a bright guy (well done on your 1st) but you need to add a few extra strings to your bow so you stand out from the other 1sts. The IMC is particularly useful for the buy-side and have a look on cityjobs and efinancial as intern slots do get advertised.

Will have a look, thanks.

Have you thought about going into a consultancy - Deloitte etc?

Yep, I thought about going into consultancy but not with Deloitte. With Deloitte et al, I applied for other roles and failed to deliver the goods at interview.

You need to think about product lines too- Equities is screwed at the moment, FX is pretty vanilla and will always do ok, commodities is strong especially within the emerging markets.

Yes, 'NewNameNeeded' suggested I have a look at commodities, at oil/gas majors especially.

I've jotted down the thoughts as they popped into my slightly hungover head so please excuse the slightly random structure of the post!

All the best.

It's a pretty good post even if you are not hung over! Thanks a lot for the support and advice!

[AnonymousCaller]

wildman0609 said:

just be persistant, and don't give up.

Thanks for the support, means a lot to me.

[AnonymousCaller]

z4chris99 said:

I lost your email but how about investment assistant at brewin? a mate there says they are looking for someone, good way to pass all the bullst interviews etc, foot in the door

Sounds very good! Please let me know more. Thank you.

[AnonymousCaller]

z4chris99 said:

Email me and ill copy you in with the guy, from then on in its all on you.

^Done, thanks a lot!

I sent an email to your fusion gmail address.

[AnonymousCaller]

^Done, thank you!

[AnonymousCaller]

^Goes without saying!

[AnonymousCaller]

^Really good isn't it?

I feel so moved!

Love PH.

[AnonymousCaller]

^Good question.

It was because I focused solely on online internship applications to well known banks and I wasn't very switched on back then. Should have really walked through the doors at all nearby banks offering unpaid labour.

I didn't do a placement either because I thought it would affect my final year studies too much. I put too much emphasis on chasing a 1st when instead, I should have undertaken a placement and been happy with a 2.1 (don't think I would have secured a 1st). I think everyone will agree that the placement year plus the 2.1 would have been much more valuable.