Working with dangerous gasses, no PPE supplied ?

[Mark34bn]

For the last eight years I have worked for a company building luxury powerboats. My job was a fit-out engineer and Air Conditioning installer, and it's the aircon side of things that my question relates to.
During the commissioning of the aircon system we charge the system to a set pressure with R417a refrigerant gas. Also, the condensers and blower fans have labels attached to them which reads
'This product contains a chemical known to the State of California which causes cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm'

I managed to get hold of the COSHH data sheet for the R417a and it states there must be bespoke gloves and overalls, oxygen sensors for the work area and 1/2 hour per day exposure limits.
The company never takes any request for aircon equipment seriously, and prefer to tell you to just "Get in there and do it, the boats got to go".

OK, in Feb 2008 I was diagnosed with testicular cancer, I had the op and the treatment and now I've been clear for 12 months. I understand proving a link would be nigh on impossible, but surely the company must be responsible / liable for making us work with the stuff without any protection at all?

If anyone knows about this sort of thing I'd be very glad of any input.

[Mark34bn]

I started a claim with the Union solicitor but they didn't seem interested, it wasn't an 'accident' as such. I was thinking more along the lines of the company failing to protect it's workforce and ignoring COSHH safety guidelines. Or something like that.

[Mark34bn]

I'll PM you some more details but the label on the equipment definitely states the cancer risk. I'll find one and scan it in. This is the equipment I was fitting
http://www.dometic.com/enuk/Europe/United-Kingdom/...

Maybe the tags relate to the fluorescent dye (titanium dioxide?)used in the system, or the previously used R22 gas.

Edited by Mark34bn on Sunday 6th December 19:08

Edited by Mark34bn on Sunday 6th December 20:24

[Mark34bn]

This is pretty straightforward, so they can't claim ignorance and say they weren't aware of the specific requirements for this job. It's the employers responsibility to look it up and supply the correct equipment ?
I worked with this stuff for 5 years and they never once mentioned the need for bespoke equipment. I left the company in June but there are roughly 15 other engineers still doing the same job as I was.

[Mark34bn]

RichBurley said:

Hi,

Look forward to receiving them. Even if there isn't a proven link to testicular cancer, (the textbooks don't say that such exposure causes testiuclar cancer; they suggest other factors), you may still have been exposed to another cancer risk from use of the gas, without suitable PPE. For that reason, this definitely requires further, proper investigation.

Speak soon,

Richard

Hi my PM wasn't sent for some reason, so I've sent a message via your website. Hope this is OK.

Thanks

Mark

[Mark34bn]

Hi I've noted your email address so you can delete the previous post. I'll have to rewrite the message tonight as I didn't save it anywhere.....

[Mark34bn]

swerni said:

Glad your treatment went well, I've just passed the three year mark.
Having looked into testicular cancer and spent time with some top oncologist I think you are going to struggle to find any link between the work and the illness.

What are you trying to do?
Teach them a lesson?
Point out that they are doing things wrong and should be taking more care?
Get some free money?

Re - what am I trying to do? truth be told a bit of all three really. I'm really annoyed at the fact they make us work with this stuff without giving a toss about the dangers. I'm annoyed that about 15 of my colleagues throughout the company are still having to do the same thing each day. If it's something that could facilitate a large amount of money coming my way then so be it, I won't refuse it.
The company treats it's staff like dirt and they should at the very least implement the proper safety procedures.
I understand it would be nigh on impossible to prove a link between the cancer and the company, but surely something is wrong when they ignore all relevant COSHH rules and just tell you to 'get on with it'.

[Mark34bn]

I haven't seen a risk assessment, the company has been around for 30 years so maybe one was done in the past.

[Mark34bn]

A small amount of gas is leaked at the start when purging the flexible line between the pressure gauges and the appliance. When the system is pressurised (normally around 10-11 bar / 150psi), the test gauges need to be removed. There are valves on the appliance and ones at the top of the flexible pipes. Removing the pipes lets the gas from the 1.5m test pipe into the air. There are pipes available which have valves at both ends but the company doesn't have any.

The gauges are very similar to these

[Mark34bn]

I'm bumping this topic because, after a long period of thinking 'this isn't worth the hassle', I'm definitely going to persue it.
I spoke to an ex colleague last week whose request for the correct equipment fell on deaf ears, and he's still having to work in confined spaces with this stuff without any protection.

The equipment we fit is below.
Dometic split - gas reversible air conditioning systems





Note the warning tags regarding cancerous contents. I don't know if it refers to the gas, the nitrogen we use to purge / vac the system or the fluorescent dye in the compressor.
Would love to take this further.

[Mark34bn]

ALawson said:

All you need do is contact the HSE, they will send somebody down to where you work and have a look about.

How many people does your company employ?

OK I'll look into that. There are about 1700/1800 staff.

[Mark34bn]

Mattt said:

Does your firm have a whistleblowing policy?

I don't work for them anymore so I have no problems presenting them with difficult questions.
By whistleblowing you mean it could be detrimental to an employee to open a can of worms ?

[Mark34bn]

dvs_dave said:

Google R417a MSDS which will give you numerous material safety data sheets on the gas including the health hazards and required PPE/handling instructions.

The gas is NOT carcinogenic, toxic or flammable and doesn't require any special PPE unless you're likely to be exposed to high concentrations or large amounts of it in liquid form. And then it's only common sense precautionary stuff.

The warning label most likely refers to the oil contained within the compressor being a possible carcinogen. Bear in mind that pretty much all oils are carcinogens if sufficiently exposed, hence the arse covering labels on the US sourced equipment. Were you regularly exposed to large amounts of compressor oil during your time there?

The above are all things you have to be 100% on if you're wanting to take legal action. As it stands, the HSE could only issue the company with a slapped wrist as other than working with compressed gasses, it's not a life safety or serious injury hazard.

Edited by dvs_dave on Friday 9th April 15:36

I wouldn't say I was exposed to large amounts of compressor oil, I spent about one day a week vaccing out / commissioning and the rest of the time fitting fans / pipework / compressors on the boats.

Based on the evidence above, this probably isn't going anywhere.