Latest AUTOCAR Test: RS4 vs V8 M3
Discussion
Has anybody read the latest Autocar proclaiming that the RS4 is better than the latest M3?
Had a quick flick thru it and I'm still in shock!
As stereotypical as this may sound, I have always felt that Audi's were always dynamically inferior to BMW on a whole, but are things a changing? I hope not!
Had a quick flick thru it and I'm still in shock!
As stereotypical as this may sound, I have always felt that Audi's were always dynamically inferior to BMW on a whole, but are things a changing? I hope not!
I think the M3 has morphed into a GT / Copue not a hardcore road rocket. Wait for the CS version to come along or just add a decent big brake kit! Like so many cars these days it is marketing vs engineering and cash (sales) always win, especially in the USA where the car will sell by the thousands.
DoctorD said:
Read EVO.
Quite. I presume all the sheep who have been rushing from one direction to another at each printed word and proclaiming how bad the new car is - without having driven it of course (see other threads) will now be trying to get their deposits back down! Hillarious.Edited by Pugsey on Tuesday 24th July 11:03
I understand the comment about cancelling orders based on mag reviews. Trouble is like it or not the market for 50k cars is very fickle and second hand values do go up an down depending on what is written.
As an example I was offered a 6 month old BMW ZMCoupe from a BMW dealer in 2000 for just under £25k. The car didnt get glowing reviews immediately on launch and thus had depreciated heavily. After lots of positive mag reviews prices on the ZM Coupe actually rallied. 3 years later I considered one again and was almost looking at paying similar money for a near identical car the same age as the one I had originally looked at.
As an example I was offered a 6 month old BMW ZMCoupe from a BMW dealer in 2000 for just under £25k. The car didnt get glowing reviews immediately on launch and thus had depreciated heavily. After lots of positive mag reviews prices on the ZM Coupe actually rallied. 3 years later I considered one again and was almost looking at paying similar money for a near identical car the same age as the one I had originally looked at.
Interestingly the current e46 m3 bettered the rs4 in recentish autocar test
The new v8 M3 was bettered by the rs4 in the autocar test
That must mean that the e46 m3 is better than the v8 m3.
.... either way its no longer the cut price peformance bargain it once was, making a base 997 potentially a very compelling alternative for many.
I think the forthcoming AMG C Class with 6.3L engine and 500bhp will take the laurels in this category shortly.
Bennno
The new v8 M3 was bettered by the rs4 in the autocar test
That must mean that the e46 m3 is better than the v8 m3.
.... either way its no longer the cut price peformance bargain it once was, making a base 997 potentially a very compelling alternative for many.
I think the forthcoming AMG C Class with 6.3L engine and 500bhp will take the laurels in this category shortly.
Bennno
Edited by bennno on Tuesday 24th July 20:44
DoctorD said:
bennno said:
.... either way its no longer the cut price peformance bargain it once was, making a base 997 potentially a very compelling alternative for many.
Why? Because the E92 M3 now costs £5-6k more than the E46 M3? baz1985 said:
DoctorD said:
bennno said:
.... either way its no longer the cut price peformance bargain it once was, making a base 997 potentially a very compelling alternative for many.
Why? Because the E92 M3 now costs £5-6k more than the E46 M3? Zod said:
baz1985 said:
DoctorD said:
bennno said:
.... either way its no longer the cut price peformance bargain it once was, making a base 997 potentially a very compelling alternative for many.
Why? Because the E92 M3 now costs £5-6k more than the E46 M3? 
bennno said:
Interestingly the current e46 m3 bettered the rs4 in recentish autocar test
The new v8 M3 was bettered by the rs4 in the autocar test
That must mean that the e46 m3 is better than the v8 m3.
.... either way its no longer the cut price peformance bargain it once was, making a base 997 potentially a very compelling alternative for many.
I think the forthcoming AMG C Class with 6.3L engine and 500bhp will take the laurels in this category shortly.
Bennno
We've been through this already ad nauseum. The M-cars have never been 'cut price performace bargains'. That niche is nicely filled by the Scoobies and the Elises.The new v8 M3 was bettered by the rs4 in the autocar test
That must mean that the e46 m3 is better than the v8 m3.
.... either way its no longer the cut price peformance bargain it once was, making a base 997 potentially a very compelling alternative for many.
I think the forthcoming AMG C Class with 6.3L engine and 500bhp will take the laurels in this category shortly.
Bennno
Edited by bennno on Tuesday 24th July 20:44
Go back and have a look at the prices of the M cars... start with the M635csi (around 45k in the mid 80's!!!), then the E30 and and the e28. No bargains to be had there I'm afraid.
Olf said:
We've been through this already ad nauseum. The M-cars have never been 'cut price performace bargains'. That niche is nicely filled by the Scoobies and the Elises.
'Cut price 911' has always been the motoring press summary1993
M3 - 32,450
911 - 50,450 (35% more)
1999
M3 - 38,445
911 - 64,800 (40% more)
2007
M3 - 50,625
911 - 60,810 (17% more)
Admittedly bmw has increased the power of the M3 beyond that of the 911, however as Top gear recently demonstrated the base Carrera was significantly faster over a closed road than a 507bhp M6 so thats largely irrelevant.
Point I made earlier in this thread is that the BMW is no longer the bargain it once was and now faces much stiffer competition. Having owned M3, M3CSL, M5 and 911 - I would say the 911 is the better drive, more exotic and enjoyable car.
I cannot see BMW having the same waiting lists for the new car as existed in 2000 when the old one was released.
Bennno
Edited by bennno on Wednesday 25th July 08:48
bennno said:
Olf said:
We've been through this already ad nauseum. The M-cars have never been 'cut price performace bargains'. That niche is nicely filled by the Scoobies and the Elises.
'Cut price 911' has always been the motoring press summary1993
M3 - 32,450
911 - 50,450 (35% more)
1999
M3 - 38,445
911 - 64,800 (40% more)
2007
M3 - 50,625
911 - 60,810 (17% more)
Admittedly bmw has increased the power of the M3 beyond that of the 911, however as Top gear recently demonstrated the base Carrera was significantly faster over a closed road than a 507bhp M6 so thats largely irrelevant.
Point I made earlier in this thread is that the BMW is no longer the bargain it once was and now faces much stiffer competition. Having owned M3, M3CSL, M5 and 911 - I would say the 911 is the better drive, more exotic and enjoyable car.
I cannot see BMW having the same waiting lists for the new car as existed in 2000 when the old one was released.
Bennno
Edited by bennno on Wednesday 25th July 08:48
The M3 is not the performance bargain it once was because a 911 beats an M6 on a closed road.
Better?
what is better anyway, just because a magazine tells you that one is "better" than the other still doesnt make it right. If they are close enough dynamically that from day to day your really wouldnt be able to tell the difference, then surely it becomes very subjective and falls to which one YOU like and not what a mag tells you?
i.e. BOxster "better" than a Z4M Roadster, but I cant stand them and both cars offer something different.
Horses for courses
edited to add : hungover and grumpy
what is better anyway, just because a magazine tells you that one is "better" than the other still doesnt make it right. If they are close enough dynamically that from day to day your really wouldnt be able to tell the difference, then surely it becomes very subjective and falls to which one YOU like and not what a mag tells you?
i.e. BOxster "better" than a Z4M Roadster, but I cant stand them and both cars offer something different.
Horses for courses
edited to add : hungover and grumpy
Edited by Obiwonkeyblokey on Wednesday 25th July 09:15
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