Discussion
NAS90 said:
Appreciate a sensible reply, his was a very nice one (nicer than mine, i'd have to admit) but I was surprised it made that much, got me to thinking where the market was, hence my (apparently uninvited) contribution to this thread having been looking at the market.
Welcome to the thread! Edited by NAS90 on Tuesday 16th May 20:17
It takes a while to settle in, so just stick it out a bit longer.
People always seem to get defensive when their opinion is questioned.
e21Mark said:
E30M3SE said:
e21Mark said:
Can't believe that henna track car is on it's 4th ebay auction now!
Being offered on the other place at £32K, 'for a quick sale'.It's certainly not perfect and not to everyone's spec, but it appears to be a good "useable" car.
NAS90 said:
You guessed wrong, I'm not the dealer, don't work for him. I'm actually retired and currently have both a 1M and an E30 M3 as well as few other toys from the other notable German manufacturers - I assume even here that qualifies me for an opinion.........
Whether I am buying or selling I see no relevance in what was paid for a car yesterday or 10 years ago, the question is what the market value is today. Now if when they are asked the dealer in question claims the car to be a matching numbers car then I would have an issue, but I see no justification in getting bent out of shape just because they bought it cheap and stand to make decent money. Have any of you actually rung the dealer up and asked about the car to see if they are trying to hide anything? I suspect not.
My point was simply following on from someone else's post that it appears to be a good example and is currently one of the cheapest advertised.
Seems i've stepped into someone else's playground uninvited....
NAS90, I will see your 1M and your E30 M3 and raise you a number of other toys from Munich, but you are getting off topic, what you have stashed away in your garage is not a prerequisite for commenting on this thread, nor is this a willy waving competition.Whether I am buying or selling I see no relevance in what was paid for a car yesterday or 10 years ago, the question is what the market value is today. Now if when they are asked the dealer in question claims the car to be a matching numbers car then I would have an issue, but I see no justification in getting bent out of shape just because they bought it cheap and stand to make decent money. Have any of you actually rung the dealer up and asked about the car to see if they are trying to hide anything? I suspect not.
My point was simply following on from someone else's post that it appears to be a good example and is currently one of the cheapest advertised.
Seems i've stepped into someone else's playground uninvited....
No......., you have not stepped into someone else's playground, this is an open forum and all are welcome, just healthy debate, that's all. I will take this opportunity now to welcome you to the forum.
Perhaps I am just getting cynical after lots of experience dealing with car dealers. No. I did not call the dealer and ask about the car, but I would be hugely surprised if he/she volunteered the information about the replacement engine. The dealer has priced it as a mint example and my guess is that it would be described as a mint example over the phone, worthy of the £60,000 price tag.
The market value of that car today was £35,000....not £60,000, Auction results never lie!! The auction was last month.
I think you are being a tad naive. If you call the dealer and he describes the car as having a replacement engine, with no leading questions by you about replacement engines, well then I stand corrected and will be happy to have a slice of humble pie.
Edited by Bayerische on Tuesday 16th May 23:54
Edited by Bayerische on Wednesday 17th May 00:08
Edited by Bayerische on Wednesday 17th May 00:13
Bayerische said:
NAS90, I will see your 1M and your E30 M3 and raise you a number of other toys from Munich, but you are getting off topic, what you have stashed away in your garage is not a prerequisite for commenting on this thread, nor is this a willy waving competition.
No......., you have not stepped into someone else's playground, this is an open forum and all are welcome, just healthy debate, that's all. I will take this opportunity now to welcome you to the forum.
Perhaps I am just getting cynical after lots of experience dealing with car dealers. No. I did not call the dealer and ask about the car, but I would be hugely surprised if he/she volunteered the information about the replacement engine. The dealer has priced it as a mint example and my guess is that it would be described as a mint example over the phone, worthy of the £60,000 price tag.
The market value of that car today was £35,000....not £60,000, Auction results never lie!! The auction was last month.
I think you are being a tad naive. If you call the dealer and he describes the car as having a replacement engine, with no leading questions by you about replacement engines, well then I stand corrected and will be happy to have a slice of humble pie.
I don't wish to stir up anything or be seen as having an interest in this particular vehicle/ dealer/ sale/ etc. but since you mention it, I think you, and for that matter some others, are being somewhat cynical. Likewise I may be naive but I don't see all dealers as crooks, hell bent on their own profit margins at all costs.No......., you have not stepped into someone else's playground, this is an open forum and all are welcome, just healthy debate, that's all. I will take this opportunity now to welcome you to the forum.
Perhaps I am just getting cynical after lots of experience dealing with car dealers. No. I did not call the dealer and ask about the car, but I would be hugely surprised if he/she volunteered the information about the replacement engine. The dealer has priced it as a mint example and my guess is that it would be described as a mint example over the phone, worthy of the £60,000 price tag.
The market value of that car today was £35,000....not £60,000, Auction results never lie!! The auction was last month.
I think you are being a tad naive. If you call the dealer and he describes the car as having a replacement engine, with no leading questions by you about replacement engines, well then I stand corrected and will be happy to have a slice of humble pie.
Edited by Bayerische on Tuesday 16th May 23:54
Edited by Bayerische on Wednesday 17th May 00:08
Edited by Bayerische on Wednesday 17th May 00:13
There has been several opinions voiced about the dealer selling a "polished turd", not "being honest" in how they describe the car, etc. but so far no one has said they've actually called the dealer to inquire, no one has said they've actually been to see the car; so the reality is it is just opinions based upon zero actual knowledge of either the product or seller. I don't think anyone can accurately value a car unless they've actually seen it, I know from my own experience history actually only tells a small part of a cars condition today; this one may be over priced, it may equally be a gem....
We don't even know if the dealer bought it directly from the auction, there may have been a trader in the middle who bought it at the auction and then moved it onto the trade for a quick profit; the dealer selling it now may have bought it on condition and paid significantly more than the auction price for it because of the condition of the car in front of them. Maybe not but we simply don't know.
So there's an alternative point of view, anyone want to call the dealer, see the car and then offer an opinion based on knowledge not cynicism...?
You are correct, I am being cynical, but the cynicism is born out of years of dealing with car dealers which I have already alluded to.
My experience is that ALL car dealers are economical with the truth to varying degrees. If it was a Marque specialist selling the car then I might give them the benefit of the doubt but this dealer sells everything from 15 year old Vauxhall Corsas to Porsche 911's.
As you are hell bent on not seeing the name of this dealer tarnished, I would suggest that YOU give them a call and enquire about the car. As I said, if I am proven wrong I am happy to eat a slice of humble pie and I would also be pleasantly surprised.
Until we get some proof, then we shall agree to disagree.
My experience is that ALL car dealers are economical with the truth to varying degrees. If it was a Marque specialist selling the car then I might give them the benefit of the doubt but this dealer sells everything from 15 year old Vauxhall Corsas to Porsche 911's.
As you are hell bent on not seeing the name of this dealer tarnished, I would suggest that YOU give them a call and enquire about the car. As I said, if I am proven wrong I am happy to eat a slice of humble pie and I would also be pleasantly surprised.
Until we get some proof, then we shall agree to disagree.
The suspense got the better of me so I called up about the car.
The car has NO service history booklet. They said that the previous owner was an engineer and he did all his own work to the car. There are receipts from BMW dealers showing parts bought for the car.
I asked what work had been done to the car over the years. I was told routine servicing, brake pipes, bushes and a gear gator.
I asked where they got the car from, they said it was purchased from the previous owner by the owner of the firm.
Absolutely no mention of a replacement engine.
I hate to say I told you so but..........I told you so. Let that be lesson to you, nothing wrong with being a cynic.
The car has NO service history booklet. They said that the previous owner was an engineer and he did all his own work to the car. There are receipts from BMW dealers showing parts bought for the car.
I asked what work had been done to the car over the years. I was told routine servicing, brake pipes, bushes and a gear gator.
I asked where they got the car from, they said it was purchased from the previous owner by the owner of the firm.
Absolutely no mention of a replacement engine.
I hate to say I told you so but..........I told you so. Let that be lesson to you, nothing wrong with being a cynic.
Edited by Bayerische on Wednesday 17th May 14:22
Bayerische said:
The suspense got the better of me so I called up about the car.
The car has NO service history booklet. They said that the previous owner was an engineer and he did all his own work to the car. There are receipts from BMW dealers showing parts bought for the car.
I asked what work had been done to the car over the years. I was told routine servicing, brake pipes, bushes and a gear gator.
I asked where they got the car from, they said it was purchased from the previous owner by the owner of the firm.
Absolutely no mention of a replacement engine.
I hate to say I told you so but..........I told you so. Let that be lesson to you, nothing wrong with being a cynic.
Well there you go, somewhat disappointing that they didn't share, but at least your cynicism has a basis in knowledge now.The car has NO service history booklet. They said that the previous owner was an engineer and he did all his own work to the car. There are receipts from BMW dealers showing parts bought for the car.
I asked what work had been done to the car over the years. I was told routine servicing, brake pipes, bushes and a gear gator.
I asked where they got the car from, they said it was purchased from the previous owner by the owner of the firm.
Absolutely no mention of a replacement engine.
I hate to say I told you so but..........I told you so. Let that be lesson to you, nothing wrong with being a cynic.
Edited by Bayerische on Wednesday 17th May 14:22
What are everyone's thoughts on mileage discrepancies on 25 year old plus cars?
My thoughts are that overall condition is a lot more important, as in the previous 25-30 years, the car could have loads of secrets in it's history.
I've followed the interweb for years with details on a lot of M3s.
Some owners who have paid serious money for their cars would have no idea that their car may have been crashed and rebuilt, or stolen and recovered, so in comparison, does 30,000km missing over 30 years really make that much of a difference?
My thoughts are that overall condition is a lot more important, as in the previous 25-30 years, the car could have loads of secrets in it's history.
I've followed the interweb for years with details on a lot of M3s.
Some owners who have paid serious money for their cars would have no idea that their car may have been crashed and rebuilt, or stolen and recovered, so in comparison, does 30,000km missing over 30 years really make that much of a difference?
I bought mine 7 years ago with full history and the original Fahrzeugbrief and every stamp in the service book.
It was imported in 1999 and it carried on with its history. I had it serviced at BMW recently and we came to the end of the service book so I got another one from BMW and I made a trip to BMW Munich to have them stamp it like they did back in 1988, but they declined and said they couldn't. I only wanted a stamp like the PDI stamp they do so it would carry on with the original booklet.
Anyway I digress. I bought on condition and the fact the seller was trustworthy sealed the deal and I've been happy ever since.
It was imported in 1999 and it carried on with its history. I had it serviced at BMW recently and we came to the end of the service book so I got another one from BMW and I made a trip to BMW Munich to have them stamp it like they did back in 1988, but they declined and said they couldn't. I only wanted a stamp like the PDI stamp they do so it would carry on with the original booklet.
Anyway I digress. I bought on condition and the fact the seller was trustworthy sealed the deal and I've been happy ever since.
E30M3SE said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, Mark, but you didn't pay mint car money for your car when you bought it, did you?
This car is priced as a minter.
No, (although it was still a lot of money to me!) but I would still go with what I could see for myself rather than rely on what I'm told. If I were looking to pay that sort of cash, I would have it up on a ramp and independently inspected, just in case I missed anything. I'd also want to see the V5 and contact the previous owner/s. An owner who's no longer tied to the car is more likely to be totally candid about any potential problems.This car is priced as a minter.
sim16v said:
I personally think you are way off valuing it at £22-24k, that is right in the ball park for resto projects needing lots of work.
It's certainly not perfect and not to everyone's spec, but it appears to be a good "useable" car.
pictures robbed from someone that went to see it,It's certainly not perfect and not to everyone's spec, but it appears to be a good "useable" car.
E30M3SE said:
pictures robbed from someone that went to see it,
Yes, it's had some repairs, and not to the best standard.But it is 30 years old.
It's a lot better than other 30 year old cars, and a lot worse than others.
It is MOT'd and runs, and looks presentable.
As has been said, it could be re done as a rally car, colour change and plate change then it's worth considerably more and no one would be aware that it is this car.
Do we know what this sold for a while back?
And what value would you put on this one?
a "barn find", cat C with light front damage, non runner needing plenty of work.
sim16v said:
What are everyone's thoughts on mileage discrepancies on 25 year old plus cars?
My thoughts are that overall condition is a lot more important, as in the previous 25-30 years, the car could have loads of secrets in it's history.
I've followed the interweb for years with details on a lot of M3s.
Some owners who have paid serious money for their cars would have no idea that their car may have been crashed and rebuilt, or stolen and recovered, so in comparison, does 30,000km missing over 30 years really make that much of a difference?
A mileage discrepancy would definitely bother me and this would have to be reflected in the price of the car.My thoughts are that overall condition is a lot more important, as in the previous 25-30 years, the car could have loads of secrets in it's history.
I've followed the interweb for years with details on a lot of M3s.
Some owners who have paid serious money for their cars would have no idea that their car may have been crashed and rebuilt, or stolen and recovered, so in comparison, does 30,000km missing over 30 years really make that much of a difference?
sim16v said:
E30M3SE said:
pictures robbed from someone that went to see it,
Yes, it's had some repairs, and not to the best standard.But it is 30 years old.
It's a lot better than other 30 year old cars, and a lot worse than others.
It is MOT'd and runs, and looks presentable.
As has been said, it could be re done as a rally car, colour change and plate change then it's worth considerably more and no one would be aware that it is this car.
Do we know what this sold for a while back?
And what value would you put on this one?
a "barn find", cat C with light front damage, non runner needing plenty of work.
I wouldn't want to rally any car that isn't 100% structurally sound. I've never quite got the ads where you see some old nail and the line ''ideal base for race or rally car''. If I'm going to compete in any car I want it to be the best it can be as the risk of having a major off in a rusty heap doesn't appeal to me.
This is what makes a rally E30 M3.
https://www.vinkmotorsport.com/portfolio-item/m3-e...
Yes, you could rally that henna car but first that shell wants dipping or blasting so you can see exactly what you've got left in the way of solid metal. Who wants to pay £30k for a car with a patchwork floorpan?
I'd also want to see some detail re spec of the engine. 260+ bhp is a pretty bold claim and I thought Griffin stopped years ago? If it really is a freshly built, 260 brake s14 though, that should be the main selling point.
I just don't think that advert is helping re sale though. Anyway, as I say, these are just my thoughts on it and I do hope it finds a home where it'll get the attention it needs and deserves.
Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff