Went and had a poke around a new M3 on Sunday....

[Pugsey]

bob1179 said:

whoami said:

Pugsey said:

bob1179 said:

I'm taking one for an extended test drive in a week or so. I really want to love it, but it's that bloody paintwork that is the clincher.

I'm also off to look at a few other marques, as being a proper car nut, I can't make my mind up as to what I really want...

A lightley used 997S perhaps?

Funny you should mention that, but I'm to the local OPC this weekend for a little looksy...

Good! And while your at it, don't forget that there are a lot of AMV8s around in the £50k bracket now! Cold performance figs tell you one thing but bring emotion/excitement etc into the equation and which would you rather see sitting on your drive. Plus a well cared for used 997/Vantage isn't going to shed £s as fast as a new M3 - which is still a blinding car btw (added to forestall anyone who thinks I'm knocking it!).

[bob1179]

Pugsey said:

Good! And while your at it, don't forget that there are a lot of AMV8s around in the £50k bracket now! Cold performance figs tell you one thing but bring emotion/excitement etc into the equation and which would you rather see sitting on your drive. Plus a well cared for used 997/Vantage isn't going to shed £s as fast as a new M3 - which is still a blinding car btw (added to forestall anyone who thinks I'm knocking it!).

I had no idea AMV8's were that sort of price now. I have lusted after one since I first read about it in Evo.

This is awesome and I am now quite excited!

I'll be having a thorough look through the classifieds now.

[derin100]

I have to say the recent paint finishes I've seen would put me off. A work colleague has new 320i in black. I'm appalled. The paint finish is atrocious! Similarly one of my neighbours has an M3 in red which I had a quick look at.

Yes, it may be more difficult to achieve the good results formerly achievable with solvent-based paints but the bodyshop that I use for my cars have had to switch to water-based paints (and invest in all the costs inherent therein) but their results far outdo anything I've seen on these recent BMWs. They did my Diamond Black ex-E30 M3, the Polaris Silver E28 I have and I've just come back from them this morning to having paid for the work on the current Diamond Black M535i I'm doing (get it back tomorrow hopefully!).

All of these far, far better. And this is from a small set-up in the middle of rural Wales!

For me it would a change of marque rather than buy a car with the kind of paintwork that we're seeing offered currently by BMW...and for me that's a very bitter pill to swallow!

[bob1179]

derin100 said:

For me it would a change of marque rather than buy a car with the kind of paintwork that we're seeing offered currently by BMW...and for me that's a very bitter pill to swallow!

That's how I feel, after all you know what a huge fan I am of BMW. But the finish of the newer stuff just isn't what it should be.

By the way, which bodyshop do you use derrin? I'm going to get my M535i resprayed soon, and want a good job done.

[derin100]

A small place in the middle of rural Wales.

I think they'd curse the day another E28 rolled up though! LMAO! Doing these cars properly now is no small undertaking and they have to work around doing their normal bread and butter work which is insurance work and a large proportion of main-dealer work (Honda etc) even on brand new cars which aren't 'quite right'.

Hence they've had this car for 4 months!

I've just handed over £2800 this morning and bear in mind some of the work like taking off the bodykit etc plus some of the final re-fitting (building up bumpers, lights etc) on the car will be done by me.

[bob1179]

To be honest, I would rather pay more to have a good job done than to go for a cheaper job that I won't be happy with. After all, I have no intention of ever selling the car.

I can imagine their faces at all these E28's though!

:

[derin100]

Not sure I'd even have the nerve to present them with another....

[taffyracer]

Call me old fashioned but I usually buy my car based on what they drive like and my needs rather than the quality of the paint, ok it's not great but I certainly wouldn't allow something as immaterial as that to affect my reasoning when buying a 50k+ car, let';s face is does it really affect anything, I doubt it has any impact of RV's, fuel consumption or more importantly what it was designed for

[waremark]

To me orange peel is only a small and relatively unimportant part of paint quality - what I see first is shininess, and what is most important to me, if difficult to assess, is probably durability. I have to look hard to notice the orange peel on my car - frankly I was surprised when you guys started making a big deal out of it.

[bob1179]

I appreciate the comments guys, but the most I've ever spent on car up until now was 4k. The whole point is that it is a +50k motor and I shouldn't have to worry about the paint.

Maybe it's also time to point out that I am also a Mechanical Quality Engineer and paint is under my remit. I notice these things...

[jeremyc]

bob1179 said:

whoami said:

Pugsey said:

bob1179 said:

I'm taking one for an extended test drive in a week or so. I really want to love it, but it's that bloody paintwork that is the clincher.

I'm also off to look at a few other marques, as being a proper car nut, I can't make my mind up as to what I really want...

A lightley used 997S perhaps?

Funny you should mention that, but I'm to the local OPC this weekend for a little looksy...

Remember to call by the Audi dealership on your way back, they might have an RS4 lying around ....

[Pugsey]

taffyracer said:

Call me old fashioned but I usually buy my car based on what they drive like and my needs rather than the quality of the paint, ok it's not great but I certainly wouldn't allow something as immaterial as that to affect my reasoning when buying a 50k+ car, let';s face is does it really affect anything, I doubt it has any impact of RV's, fuel consumption or more importantly what it was designed for

I think I made it very clear in my posts that for me the overall abilities, build quality etc. etc. of the car DID outweigh my disappointment with the paint quality.

HOWEVER to suggest that a manufacturer not getting something as basic as a good paint finish right on a £55k car is "immaterial" is faintly ludicrous IMHO. To me it reflects, at best, a certain lack of care and at worst, possibly lack of technical expertise - which might make me wonder what other areas of the car have been put together with the same 'oh that'll do attitude' or possible inneptitude. After all if BMW don't take pride in something as outwardly obvious as paintwork what on earth might lie 'hidden' where you can't see it?
As it happens I was more than happy with everthing else about the car but just blindly accept poor quality on a £55k car? Not me thanks. As for "does it really effect anything?" yes of course it does - for me at least - since however much of a driver I am I'll admitt that when I'm spending this kind of money I have to derive some kind of asthetic satisfaction from my cars too - and it would appear I'm not alone in this.

PS. As ever edited for spelling!

Edited by Pugsey on Friday 4th July 09:39

Edited by Pugsey on Friday 4th July 10:29

[Rochester TVR]

Pugsey said:

taffyracer said:

Call me old fashioned but I usually buy my car based on what they drive like and my needs rather than the quality of the paint, ok it's not great but I certainly wouldn't allow something as immaterial as that to affect my reasoning when buying a 50k+ car, let';s face is does it really affect anything, I doubt it has any impact of RV's, fuel consumption or more importantly what it was designed for

I think I made it very clear in my posts that for me the overall abilities, build quality etc. etc. of the car DID outweigh my disappointment with the paint quality.

HOWEVER to suggest that a manufacturer not getting something as basic as a good paint finish right on a £55k car is "immaterial" is faintly ludicrous IMHO. To me it reflects, at best, a certain lack of care and at worst, possibly lack of technical expertise - which might make me wonder what other areas of the car have been put together with the same 'oh that'll do attitude' or possible inneptitude. After all if BMW don't take pride in something as outwardly obvious as paintwork what on earth might lie 'hidden' where you can't see it?
As it happens I was more than happy with everthing else about the car but just blindly accept poor quality on a £55k car? Not me thanks. As for "does it really effect anything?" yes of course it does - for me at least - since however much of a driver I am I'll admitt that when I'm spending this kind of money I have to derive some kind of asthetic satisfaction from my cars too - and it would appear I'm not alone in this.

PS. As ever edited for spelling!

Edited by Pugsey on Friday 4th July 09:39

Edited by Pugsey on Friday 4th July 10:29

Here, Here!

Im going to look at a M3 next weekend, and although I dont think the paint finish would stop me buying it I certainly agree that its not what you expect on a car for this kind of money...

and it does make you think "I wonder what else they have cut corners on?"

From what I hear Jerez black is the worst effected... so Im going to look at a white one instead... and have it detailed as soon as I get it (if) hopefully that will improve things slightly...

[bob1179]

jeremyc said:

Remember to call by the Audi dealership on your way back, they might have an RS4 lying around ....

I've not looked at the RS4. Might be worth somthing to consider.

Edited by bob1179 on Friday 4th July 12:40

[bob1179]

Pugsey said:

taffyracer said:

Call me old fashioned but I usually buy my car based on what they drive like and my needs rather than the quality of the paint, ok it's not great but I certainly wouldn't allow something as immaterial as that to affect my reasoning when buying a 50k+ car, let';s face is does it really affect anything, I doubt it has any impact of RV's, fuel consumption or more importantly what it was designed for

I think I made it very clear in my posts that for me the overall abilities, build quality etc. etc. of the car DID outweigh my disappointment with the paint quality.

HOWEVER to suggest that a manufacturer not getting something as basic as a good paint finish right on a £55k car is "immaterial" is faintly ludicrous IMHO. To me it reflects, at best, a certain lack of care and at worst, possibly lack of technical expertise - which might make me wonder what other areas of the car have been put together with the same 'oh that'll do attitude' or possible inneptitude. After all if BMW don't take pride in something as outwardly obvious as paintwork what on earth might lie 'hidden' where you can't see it?
As it happens I was more than happy with everthing else about the car but just blindly accept poor quality on a £55k car? Not me thanks. As for "does it really effect anything?" yes of course it does - for me at least - since however much of a driver I am I'll admitt that when I'm spending this kind of money I have to derive some kind of asthetic satisfaction from my cars too - and it would appear I'm not alone in this.

PS. As ever edited for spelling!

Edited by Pugsey on Friday 4th July 09:39

Edited by Pugsey on Friday 4th July 10:29

Again, I have to agree with Pugsey here, one does begin to wonder where BMW may have cut corners throughout the design and production process.

I was thinking about this issue again today, since I was a young lad looking at E30 M3's and E28 M5's, I have always aspired to owning a true 'M' badged car, they were balls out motoring perfection. Now I am finally in a position to be able to actually afford one, they have seemingly lowered their quality standards to a point I deem unacceptable on such an aspirational and expensive car.

I know the car will drive extremely well, I know that it (should be) is well built but the aesthetics are a huge part of it. I understand that to some, I'm making an issue out of what seems like a small problem, but as I said, I've never spent such a large amount of money on a car before, I want it to be perfect!

[Chessers]

Get a good detailer who specialises in paint correction to go to the showroom with you and get some feedback from them.

I can put you in touch with a few but they are all South East based.

Sometimes they can get rid of the orange peel with wet sanding and polishing but it wont be cheap as they'll have the car for at least a few days.

Agree to a price and say if BMW pay for the paint correction you'll take it!

Some Aston Martin showrooms offer this for buyers so maybe BMW need to follow suit.

[whoami]

Rochester TVR said:

Pugsey said:

taffyracer said:

Call me old fashioned but I usually buy my car based on what they drive like and my needs rather than the quality of the paint, ok it's not great but I certainly wouldn't allow something as immaterial as that to affect my reasoning when buying a 50k+ car, let';s face is does it really affect anything, I doubt it has any impact of RV's, fuel consumption or more importantly what it was designed for

I think I made it very clear in my posts that for me the overall abilities, build quality etc. etc. of the car DID outweigh my disappointment with the paint quality.

HOWEVER to suggest that a manufacturer not getting something as basic as a good paint finish right on a £55k car is "immaterial" is faintly ludicrous IMHO. To me it reflects, at best, a certain lack of care and at worst, possibly lack of technical expertise - which might make me wonder what other areas of the car have been put together with the same 'oh that'll do attitude' or possible inneptitude. After all if BMW don't take pride in something as outwardly obvious as paintwork what on earth might lie 'hidden' where you can't see it?
As it happens I was more than happy with everthing else about the car but just blindly accept poor quality on a £55k car? Not me thanks. As for "does it really effect anything?" yes of course it does - for me at least - since however much of a driver I am I'll admitt that when I'm spending this kind of money I have to derive some kind of asthetic satisfaction from my cars too - and it would appear I'm not alone in this.

PS. As ever edited for spelling!

Edited by Pugsey on Friday 4th July 09:39

Edited by Pugsey on Friday 4th July 10:29

Here, Here!

Im going to look at a M3 next weekend, and although I dont think the paint finish would stop me buying it I certainly agree that its not what you expect on a car for this kind of money...

and it does make you think "I wonder what else they have cut corners on?"

From what I hear Jerez black is the worst effected... so Im going to look at a white one instead... and have it detailed as soon as I get it (if) hopefully that will improve things slightly...

I had a detailer (who looks after my cars and I trust) look at my wife's car. Every pannel would need wet sanding and the bumpers would have to come off to do it properly. It's not a trivial task or one which would take a couple of days.

[belleair302]

The problem is simple....BMw are making to many cars and not spending enough time on the finish. Lok at porsche and Audi for their offerings regarding paint and also the amazing job Bentley do.

I am sending my E34 M5 off for a major respray after the summer, and the finished results will be amazing...no orange peel and no overspray.

The guys at K & M Bodycraft in Firgrove Barn just outside Rickmansworth are well worth talking too. They do work for the historic crowd, bentley Blowers are a speciality and their craftsmanship is beyond compare. True paint maestros.

[squeezebm]

Silverstone II,and no orange peel that i can see,but hey ho they are too heavy,thirsty,exspensive and common anyway so why bother


as for me ,as happy as a pig in ste with mine,but an RS4 my friend

[taffyracer]

but you have a choice don't you, that's part of my point, the quality of the paint is not great, i accept and have admitted that already, that's not in dispute, but in NO way does it detract from what it was designed to do, it doesn't affect the RV's, it doesn't affect the way it drives, it doesn't affect anything apart from making threads like this extremely long and boring, personally I can accept that, i'm not a detailing fetishist so couldn't really give a toss, my car is a daily workhorse not a dream car and I would suggest that anyone expecting motoring perfection is looking in the wrong place wiht this sort of car, get a caterham for that.

It was choice to buy an M3, i wouldn't buy then and then complain, if it meant that much to me I simply wouldn't buy it

Edited by taffyracer on Friday 4th July 17:56