Buying a BMW M3 E92 - things to consider?

[bennyboysvuk]

SebringMan said:

Plenty. But plenty otherwise. For me it would be a hard one. Push came to shove I'd probably go DCT. There are IMHO better cars out there to have if a manual 'box is a priorty. Porsche 996 is one.

That said, an E92 M3 with a manual gearbox is in a pretty small class, possibly a class of one. i.e. There aren't many 2 door coupes with four good sized seats (big enough for tiny and big kids), a characterful, naturally aspirated V8 with a manual gearbox that are front engined and RWD.

[Patrick Bateman]

One thing's for sure, make sure you can try both and not just assume you'll definitely prefer one over the other.

[Jez m]

Patrick Bateman said:

One thing's for sure, make sure you can try both and not just assume you'll definitely prefer one over the other.

For sure! I'm having the same thoughts.

I spent 90 mins driving around Porsche's Silverstone circuit in a 911GTS Manual the other week.. loved the gear change, heel and toeing... left me thinking would i really want to go DCT... hmmm

[Tony B2]

Jez m said:

For sure! I'm having the same thoughts.

I spent 90 mins driving around Porsche's Silverstone circuit in a 911GTS Manual the other week.. loved the gear change, heel and toeing... left me thinking would i really want to go DCT... hmmm

Was it the blue one?

I was there a couple of months back and drove that car. Massively quick, but so disappointed with the handling. Understeer, understeer and more understeer no matter what I tried.

The PEC instructor blamed the tyres, which were on their 2nd (of 3) days use. Certainly they were shedding major blocks of rubber at one point.

Ho hum. Saved me quite a lot of money, I suppose.

[tenmantaylor]

Have you driven many rear engined cars? They don't respond to turn in the same as FR, need to get on the power earlier to prevent understeer. A different, but in a lot of ways, a more rewarding experience (more time spent throttle balancing).

[fido]

I chopped my WRX wagon for a 2012 M3 a month ago and no regrets. I think I might be in the minority of those who prefer the DCT to the manual - suits the revvy V8 much better but takes some getting used to. Fuel economy - WRX did around 25 on short journeys - the M3 takes ages to warm up (5 miles+) and I'm lucky to see 19mpg on short journeys, up to 29mpg by nursing it on the slow lane of a motorway. All in all, it's a superb car to drive - suspension, comfort, balance, throttle response (make sure it has EDC). Only things I don't like is the size (think of it as a lighter E39 M5) .. if the M2 had this engine I would have got that instead!

[tenmantaylor]

I drove a few with and without EDC and there was no difference between a non-EDC and the EDC in soft setting when on the road. Just got harder as turned up the EDC hardness, i was expceting the soft setting to be more compliant but it wasnt so got one without in the end. Wouldnt go without heated seats mind!

[The Wookie]

Tony B2 said:

I was there a couple of months back and drove that car. Massively quick, but so disappointed with the handling. Understeer, understeer and more understeer no matter what I tried.

Pretty much all of the non GT or Turbo models do since the 2nd gen 997 IME, although you can improve it by train braking and keeping a bit of weight on the front on corner entry. Fine on a track (with experience) but not very likely on the road.

You might want to try an Evora, a post 2012 one if you want a decent gearshift, they're better balanced, ride better, better steering, just not as well put together and the engine is a bit workmanlike compared to a Porsche flat-6, or the M3's V8 for that matter.

[Tony B2]

tenmantaylor said:

Have you driven many rear engined cars? They don't respond to turn in the same as FR, need to get on the power earlier to prevent understeer. A different, but in a lot of ways, a more rewarding experience (more time spent throttle balancing).

Was this question aimed at me?

If so, I have driven 996 generation 911, and now 991.2 generation.

With the 996 cars it was quite easy to get the tail active, and the front biting, with just a brief lift of the throttle.

I couldn’t get the same response from the 991.2 GTS, mild lift, big lift, trail braking, hard late braking, loads of throttle, whatever.

I was able to get more out of a Boxster Spyder on the same circuit (PEC).

Also a gen 2 R8 is much more throttle adjustable, in spite of being 4 wheel drive.

The instructor in the car with me said that I had tried everything possible to quell the understeer, and blamed the ste condition of the tyres.

[Jez m]

Tony B2 said:

Was it the blue one?

I was there a couple of months back and drove that car. Massively quick, but so disappointed with the handling. Understeer, understeer and more understeer no matter what I tried.

The PEC instructor blamed the tyres, which were on their 2nd (of 3) days use. Certainly they were shedding major blocks of rubber at one point.

Ho hum. Saved me quite a lot of money, I suppose.

It was indeed! The day was wet, which made it more enjoyable as it was pretty tail happy!
However, i did think it was a tad heavy on understeer.. especially when i was on the low grip centre section doing a bit of drifting.. had to resort to clutch kicking to get the back out otherwise it just pushed the nose wide on the power... but having never driven rear engined before i just assumed this was inherent in it's nature.

Didn't make me want to move away from front engine rwd but i was still very impressed! Certainly would'nt turn one down!

[bennyboysvuk]

The Wookie said:

Tony B2 said:

I was there a couple of months back and drove that car. Massively quick, but so disappointed with the handling. Understeer, understeer and more understeer no matter what I tried.

Pretty much all of the non GT or Turbo models do since the 2nd gen 997 IME, although you can improve it by train braking and keeping a bit of weight on the front on corner entry. Fine on a track (with experience) but not very likely on the road.

You might want to try an Evora, a post 2012 one if you want a decent gearshift, they're better balanced, ride better, better steering, just not as well put together and the engine is a bit workmanlike compared to a Porsche flat-6, or the M3's V8 for that matter.

I tried an Evora last year when I was looking at the options out there for my next car. It's totally different to the E92 M3. It felt quite a bit slower and had masses of grip, but at high speed you could change the attitude of the nose of the car by lifting off the throttle or getting on it. It wasn't sliding, but the way the car was cornering was affected quite a bit by the inputs. I really enjoyed it, but it was clear that my kids were not going to fit in the back, so I had to look at bigger options.

[Tony B2]

Jez m said:

It was indeed! The day was wet, which made it more enjoyable as it was pretty tail happy!
However, i did think it was a tad heavy on understeer.. especially when i was on the low grip centre section doing a bit of drifting.. had to resort to clutch kicking to get the back out otherwise it just pushed the nose wide on the power... but having never driven rear engined before i just assumed this was inherent in it's nature.

Didn't make me want to move away from front engine rwd but i was still very impressed! Certainly would'nt turn one down!

Drifting certainly highlighted the problem of turbo lag, because you had the long (enough in the circumstances) pause before boost raised enough to spin the rear wheels.

Not like a nice NA engine!

[Tony B2]

The Wookie said:

Pretty much all of the non GT or Turbo models do since the 2nd gen 997 IME, although you can improve it by train braking and keeping a bit of weight on the front on corner entry. Fine on a track (with experience) but not very likely on the road.

You might want to try an Evora, a post 2012 one if you want a decent gearshift, they're better balanced, ride better, better steering, just not as well put together and the engine is a bit workmanlike compared to a Porsche flat-6, or the M3's V8 for that matter.

A Lotus....hmmm....a bit hard core for me...

[The Wookie]

bennyboysvuk said:

I tried an Evora last year when I was looking at the options out there for my next car. It's totally different to the E92 M3. It felt quite a bit slower and had masses of grip, but at high speed you could change the attitude of the nose of the car by lifting off the throttle or getting on it. It wasn't sliding, but the way the car was cornering was affected quite a bit by the inputs. I really enjoyed it, but it was clear that my kids were not going to fit in the back, so I had to look at bigger options.

Yeah to be fair if you actually intend to use the rear seats it’s not really a goer!

[The Wookie]

Tony B2 said:

A Lotus....hmmm....a bit hard core for me...

I used to do 30k a year in mine, the only downside was luggage Tetris on race weekends

Seriously, try one, in terms of ride and refinement they are nowhere near approaching hardcore, but are still razor sharp and brilliantly capable on track. If you’re near Silverstone then the Lotus dealer there is massively friendly and helpful... and easy on the eye if Aimee is still there

[bennyboysvuk]

Tony B2 said:

Drifting certainly highlighted the problem of turbo lag, because you had the long (enough in the circumstances) pause before boost raised enough to spin the rear wheels.

Not like a nice NA engine!

It's nice to see this highlighted by someone other than me (for a change). I always felt my old M135i was rather laggy, despite what BMW claimed. It seemed that it would dump the boost immediately after lifting off as well, which meant that getting it sideways and holding it there was an act of trying to work the throttle to balance the boost (and never lifting enough for it to be dumped completely), which felt like a lot of inaccurate guesswork compared to the non-turbocharged offerings from BMWs of yesteryear.

[Tony B2]

bennyboysvuk said:

It's nice to see this highlighted by someone other than me (for a change). I always felt my old M135i was rather laggy, despite what BMW claimed. It seemed that it would dump the boost immediately after lifting off as well, which meant that getting it sideways and holding it there was an act of trying to work the throttle to balance the boost (and never lifting enough for it to be dumped completely), which felt like a lot of inaccurate guesswork compared to the non-turbocharged offerings from BMWs of yesteryear.

Agreed - I struggle with drifting the M4, for the same reason. The E92’s scalpel-like throttle response makes it much easier.

I might have to post a video....run and hide....

[stuno1]

Had an Evora for 2 years with a toddler and it was fine. Granted I did remove the rear seat back and base. The boot is larger than people think and I was able to use the space behind me for storage. We had it on many weekend trips. It’s also VERY comfy. I took mine to German my and it was very comfy but then epic performance when needed. The series 1 is a better tourer and the 400 is a better sports car.

[bennyboysvuk]

Tony B2 said:

Agreed - I struggle with drifting the M4, for the same reason. The E92’s scalpel-like throttle response makes it much easier.

I might have to post a video....run and hide....

I found the F80 far easier than the M135i to properly slide, but like you say, the E92 is in a totally different league for throttle response.

I'd like to see the resulting vid.

stuno1 said:

Had an Evora for 2 years with a toddler and it was fine. Granted I did remove the rear seat back and base. The boot is larger than people think and I was able to use the space behind me for storage. We had it on many weekend trips. It’s also VERY comfy. I took mine to German my and it was very comfy but then epic performance when needed. The series 1 is a better tourer and the 400 is a better sports car.

I couldn't make it work with me (all 6ft 3 of me) and an 11 month old and 4 year old, it was just too tight. With one child, I think it would be workable. An amazing car though, none the less.

Edited by bennyboysvuk on Wednesday 6th December 12:17

[Tony B2]

bennyboysvuk said:

Tony B2 said:

Agreed - I struggle with drifting the M4, for the same reason. The E92’s scalpel-like throttle response makes it much easier.

I might have to post a video....run and hide....

I found the F80 far easier than the M135i to properly slide, but like you say, the E92 is in a totally different league for throttle response.

I'd like to see the resulting vid.

Edited by bennyboysvuk on Wednesday 6th December 12:17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pzcHNzTkqc

There you go...!