My '96 E36 M3 Evo Saloon
Discussion
Dan Trent @ Pistonheads kindly added the car to their Car Pool. See http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI... .
This is how the car stands at the moment...
Plenty more updates to come very soon. Christmas is out of the way, so its a case of saving and ordering more toys...
This is how the car stands at the moment...
Plenty more updates to come very soon. Christmas is out of the way, so its a case of saving and ordering more toys...
Edited by Neil_M on Monday 6th January 21:07
A braided clutch hose arrived today.
As did the Rogue Engineering Rear Shock Mounts
The last few Vanos bolts. This is the Vanos to head bolts and seals.
I'll get my local independent to do the clutch hose change and the clutch fluid at the same time.
The RRSM's will be installed with the Bilstein B12 kit.
The Vanos bolts will be fitted asap.
As did the Rogue Engineering Rear Shock Mounts
The last few Vanos bolts. This is the Vanos to head bolts and seals.
I'll get my local independent to do the clutch hose change and the clutch fluid at the same time.
The RRSM's will be installed with the Bilstein B12 kit.
The Vanos bolts will be fitted asap.
EJH said:
What advantage to the Rogue engineering topmounts have? I only ask as I was recommended (and used) E46 Cabrio mounts when my suspension was re-done as they'r tougher than E36 OE.
For information, everything else I used aside from Poly ARB bushes was BMW OE…aside from the dampers where I fitted the Sachs part as oppposed to the BMW-badged version of the Sachs part; one cost 1/2 the price of the other...
http://www.rogueengineering.com/rogue/S_BUSH/RSM.html I'll let the link cover that all for you. In summary a much stronger and serviceable item than any of the OEM stuff. They state the E46 mounts are still prone to issues.For information, everything else I used aside from Poly ARB bushes was BMW OE…aside from the dampers where I fitted the Sachs part as oppposed to the BMW-badged version of the Sachs part; one cost 1/2 the price of the other...
EJH said:
Oh well… We'll see how long mine last! The suspension was done at the start of June and I've only done 2,700 miles since then. As such, the mileage clicked to the less than momentous 54,000 as I drove home this evening; this also means that despite buying the car in April 2012 and using it as a daily driver, it hasn't done 10,000 miles in my ownership yet. This is to be remedied!
I have finally dug some photos of if off my iPhone from around the time it was done:
Ahh mate that looks fantastic!I have finally dug some photos of if off my iPhone from around the time it was done:
If you aren't doing big miles you may well find the mounts last you for ages!
I need to drive mine much more often too. I'm very much looking forward to the summer for evening and morning drives
.EJH said:
It is, unreservedly, the best car I have ever owned.
I still love my (old-ish) 911 but the M3 ticks virtually every box...especially after the suspension was re-done, new (OE) brakes with braided hoses and the alignment was done. In wet weather on cliff-top roads, the M3 just feels a bit safer! It can go sideways at the drop of a hat and can (if properly motivated) munch through a set of rears in 1,500 miles (they were Kumhos, I hated them and Michelins were on order...). It can also potter to the office with Radio 4 on.
When you do your suspension, it might be worth puling the front arch-liners out and giving them a clean / underseal. Notorious rot-spot...and I had all arches and above the diff done last year (mercifully all was clean but at least I know now that they're protected!).
When I got the car, I immediately put in in for an Inspection II and this is the (slightly) OCD tale of my car's trip to the UK for minor service, suspension, brakes and fettling: http://www.iridiumengineering.co.uk/casebook9.html The main agent here does Porsche and BMW (as well as VW, Audi, Bentley, AM, Mercedes, Smart, etc) and I think it's fair to say I'm on "pretty good" terms with the parts department!
The only current to-dos I can think of are:
Both bumpers could do with a respray (lacquer lift and stone chips)
3,000 mile oil drop in the next few weeks
I do see where you are coming from... I drove a 996.2 C2 in a hail storm a few years ago, ok blame the dubious history, non N rated tyres and unknown geometry, but that scared the **** out of me!I still love my (old-ish) 911 but the M3 ticks virtually every box...especially after the suspension was re-done, new (OE) brakes with braided hoses and the alignment was done. In wet weather on cliff-top roads, the M3 just feels a bit safer! It can go sideways at the drop of a hat and can (if properly motivated) munch through a set of rears in 1,500 miles (they were Kumhos, I hated them and Michelins were on order...). It can also potter to the office with Radio 4 on.
When you do your suspension, it might be worth puling the front arch-liners out and giving them a clean / underseal. Notorious rot-spot...and I had all arches and above the diff done last year (mercifully all was clean but at least I know now that they're protected!).
When I got the car, I immediately put in in for an Inspection II and this is the (slightly) OCD tale of my car's trip to the UK for minor service, suspension, brakes and fettling: http://www.iridiumengineering.co.uk/casebook9.html The main agent here does Porsche and BMW (as well as VW, Audi, Bentley, AM, Mercedes, Smart, etc) and I think it's fair to say I'm on "pretty good" terms with the parts department!
The only current to-dos I can think of are:
Both bumpers could do with a respray (lacquer lift and stone chips)
3,000 mile oil drop in the next few weeks
You could put it down as me being a pants driver, but the M3 seems to be much more surefooted, has a much bigger safety net. I actually find the sharpness of the engine makes the car so easy to modulate.
Did you find much improvement when you installed the braided brake hoses? They are on my to-do list when rebuilding the callipers.
Tyre wise, I have matched Semperit's (sp) on the car. These were on the car from new. I too would go down the Michelin route eventually. I used to work in the tyre trade a few years ago, so feel they are the way forward. Maybe some Pilot Super Sports all round
.I've had the arches out, I'd one cracked arch that was replaced. I was glad to say there were no signs of rust. The fronts were much dirtier than the rears, especially when you notice the dirt trap just below the front wing, behind the front wheels. I've had the rear bumper off too, all looks good there. However I do plan to seal the arches and their lips with POR-15. The car has been very well looked after by previous owners, the quality of the wax oil job was complimented on by a BMW mechanic during an inspection.
I've nearly completed an Inspection II myself. I'll be getting the valve clearances done by the local independent at the start of the summer. I'm taking my time through it though. As part of the clutch fluid change, I'll install the braided hose for the clutch. As part of the brake fluid change, I'll rebuild the brakes. Small jobs turn into big ones.
I'd actually read your threads before during a research day... Lovely looking car.
Your photo...
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... is motivation in itself.
I'm not sure if you have done it yet... I would recommend preventative maintenance with the Vanos and install an uprated bolt and seal kit.
Awesome cars though. Fairly straight forward to work on, bags full of character. That's the big thing that gets me. The thrum/idle when you start it, beautiful...
I do plan to do some videos of the car after winter too.
MarkwG said:
Love both of yours, the colours particularly - mine's boring old "resell silver", they were thin on the ground in any colour back when I bought it, so chosen on condition & the deal, rather than colour. I studiously ignored all the whinging about "it's not as good as the e30", "it's more hassle than the 3.0", it suited my purposes then, & still does. They're a car that seem to grow on people - rather than the instant buzz you get from others, which then fades away. Into our 15th year together now, & still raises a smile when I get back in & go for a thrash - what more would anyone want?
I've now changed my tune about cars. Colour is a secondary point, as you say its all about condition and the deal.You can't please everyone. But you have bought a car that's kept you happy for 15 years. That says alot about the car and E36 M3's in general.
15 years is a long time. Any points you would advise anyone to address asap as you have had the car so long?
EJH said:
15 years! Impressive! I agree that they're growers of cars as mine fits in very well with how I live; it's small with a load of engine, it can handle and it can potter and the seats (saloon) are incredibly comfortable. I think a little DTM-esque run when I was away cemented my love of the car; there's enough torque and power for pottering but if you're making progress, you will be looking at the right hand side of the rev-counter!
I have had my 911 (1988, hairdresser-spec cabrio, albeit with no ABS or PAS) for 7 1/2 years and think it's a fixture in my life…and suspect the M3 might go the same way. I know some consider the interior to be a bit dated but I quite like the 1990s blend of "new enough to work and old enough to be fixable if it breaks."
I agree that colour is secondary to condition and the deal. I would, ideally, have a Dakar Yellow saloon…but that wasn't what was in front of me when I went to see the red one, with 44,500 miles and a very "motivated," vendor. When I went to see it the first time, the car was great but the deal wasn't. He called me 2 weeks later when I was on holiday and I agreed to go and view it the next week. Cut 38% off the asking price (his offer was less than I was going to low-ball him) and I couldn’t leave it there!
That photo. I'm too scared to say what I have spent on parts in the 21 months I have owned the car. It has been maintained with an ethos of:
- It's a keeper
- Pay the bill (if you buy cheap you *will* buy twice)
- Do it right and just before it needs doing and it's money well spent
I *might* have changed all the plastic exterior trim, rather than trying to keep it black (and if one does this, the M Appearance pack, destined for lower models, costs about 1/2 the price of buying all the door-bits separately…but one does have to change the "M," badges for "M3," badges…which takes about 60 seconds a side.
Re the brake hoses, I like them. Some who have driven the car find the brakes snatchier than they're used to, but I find them easier to modulate and consider them a sensible upgrade. It's the only thing I would do to the brakes as I don’t see any need for (or have the desire for the hassle of) upgrading them!
Vanos Filter and bolts were changed with the inspection II in June 2012 and the filter was changed again in June 2013 (5,000 miles later). I think it might be worth getting it done when the car has its annual (proper) service in the summer but Vanos isn’t something that worries me particularly; if it fails, it can be repaired and the costs aren't as catastrophically unpleasant as they used to be.
Thanks for the info sir.I have had my 911 (1988, hairdresser-spec cabrio, albeit with no ABS or PAS) for 7 1/2 years and think it's a fixture in my life…and suspect the M3 might go the same way. I know some consider the interior to be a bit dated but I quite like the 1990s blend of "new enough to work and old enough to be fixable if it breaks."
I agree that colour is secondary to condition and the deal. I would, ideally, have a Dakar Yellow saloon…but that wasn't what was in front of me when I went to see the red one, with 44,500 miles and a very "motivated," vendor. When I went to see it the first time, the car was great but the deal wasn't. He called me 2 weeks later when I was on holiday and I agreed to go and view it the next week. Cut 38% off the asking price (his offer was less than I was going to low-ball him) and I couldn’t leave it there!
That photo. I'm too scared to say what I have spent on parts in the 21 months I have owned the car. It has been maintained with an ethos of:
- It's a keeper
- Pay the bill (if you buy cheap you *will* buy twice)
- Do it right and just before it needs doing and it's money well spent
I *might* have changed all the plastic exterior trim, rather than trying to keep it black (and if one does this, the M Appearance pack, destined for lower models, costs about 1/2 the price of buying all the door-bits separately…but one does have to change the "M," badges for "M3," badges…which takes about 60 seconds a side.
Re the brake hoses, I like them. Some who have driven the car find the brakes snatchier than they're used to, but I find them easier to modulate and consider them a sensible upgrade. It's the only thing I would do to the brakes as I don’t see any need for (or have the desire for the hassle of) upgrading them!
Vanos Filter and bolts were changed with the inspection II in June 2012 and the filter was changed again in June 2013 (5,000 miles later). I think it might be worth getting it done when the car has its annual (proper) service in the summer but Vanos isn’t something that worries me particularly; if it fails, it can be repaired and the costs aren't as catastrophically unpleasant as they used to be.
Good info on the black exterior trim, I'll bare that in mind. Though mine came up very well with a rejuvenation potion that was left on for a few weeks, so dried perfectly.
Brake wise I too would say they are very good power wise. I don't mind if the braided lines add a little snappiness to the brakes, I'll get used to it. A little sharpening of the car is no bad thing, that my attitude with the suspension too. Floating discs is still a rarity on a modern car, never mind a nearly 20 year old car!
True enough regarding the vanos. I too would consider the vanos filter as a consumable as part of every service. Don't quote me on this, but I think they are around £500 rebuilt.
Gretchen said:
Loving threads like this. Really inspiring. I've not had the enthusiasm for my E36 M3 Evo coupe over the past year, but have of late been feeling more inclined to come back to her. The irony of finding these threads tonight is uncanny too as was looking at my window seals this afternoon and contemplating attempting replacing them myself soon.
I don't have much advise to add, accept that I upgraded the rubber clutch hose to braided SS soon after taking ownership and it really made an appreciated improvement. And again with the braided brake hoses.
I'm in half a mind to sell up in June and take on a two seater as a second car. But someone wants me to take the M3 over to Switzerland, Italy and Germany for a Summer road trip with him. I'm not sure I'm brave enough but I'll keep reading and try and stay inspired.
Its like I'd mentioned in the Piston Heads article. It's the community spirit that helps everyone out, be it advice or motivation.I don't have much advise to add, accept that I upgraded the rubber clutch hose to braided SS soon after taking ownership and it really made an appreciated improvement. And again with the braided brake hoses.
I'm in half a mind to sell up in June and take on a two seater as a second car. But someone wants me to take the M3 over to Switzerland, Italy and Germany for a Summer road trip with him. I'm not sure I'm brave enough but I'll keep reading and try and stay inspired.
A European road trip would be fantastic. I'd love to do that. The road trip I went on with the 348 and Boxster was up into the Antrim hills and east cost of Northern Ireland, the roads were just fantastic. It's easily to forget how good a car the E36 M3 is when you are driving down give and take roads, especially in the company of more exotic or modern machinery.
I'd say you need to take her out for a good drive again. See what that does. A good wash and polish? Perhaps treat her to a service?
Court_S said:
That's lovely OP.
The E36 saloon, unmolested looks great I think, especially in Estoril blue. It's amazing to see how small it looks compared to the E92. That really brings home how big cars have got.
It was a ride in a friends parents E36 when I was younger that got me hooked on BM's I think. Sitting in the front felt like sitting in a cockpit, it felt so low and snug compared to the cars I was used to being driven in. I still get that feel in modern BM's ( sad I know).
Thank you The E36 saloon, unmolested looks great I think, especially in Estoril blue. It's amazing to see how small it looks compared to the E92. That really brings home how big cars have got.
It was a ride in a friends parents E36 when I was younger that got me hooked on BM's I think. Sitting in the front felt like sitting in a cockpit, it felt so low and snug compared to the cars I was used to being driven in. I still get that feel in modern BM's ( sad I know).
.I actually find it quite a long car, its just so much narrower than anything more modern.
I remember sitting in my first E36, in the front passenger seat. The dash seems so far away, a little disconcerting. As you say the driver side is very focused on the driver.
EJH said:
I'm not sure if this has already been posted...but it's quite interesting to see how few of the saloons were made:
http://www.m3portal.com/forum/m3e36_limo32_colour....
I can't help but wonder how many of the 16 "Hellrot," cars that were made are still in circulation (aside from mine).
That is an interesting read. The stats identify the saloon as being rather rare. Shame the Estoril Blue was so popular haha.http://www.m3portal.com/forum/m3e36_limo32_colour....
I can't help but wonder how many of the 16 "Hellrot," cars that were made are still in circulation (aside from mine).
I've finally sorted one of my irks about the car... The dash board. Yes the wood is staying, but a cracked/chipped version has been replaced with one as good as new!!
(please excuse the poor photo, the flash taints the view)
However as usual, my OCD kicks in and a small job turns into a big job.
The alarm led / interior sensor disable button was damaged. The black plastic surround was cracked. A new led and loom was sourced, loom ran and the plug was pinned in...
The wooden dash was replaced. I've also learnt how to clean and polish veneer properly (all of the wood in the car has been cleaned and polished now lol).
A new cigarette lighter was installed, along with a bulb for the lighter socket.
The sound insulating foam that sits below the gaiter was replaced with a new item.
A new oem leather gaiter was installed.
As was a good as new wooden gear knob.
A seat belt bolt (a pillar) cover was also replaced.
While the dash sections were out, I cleaned and washed everything. Along with hoovering the carpet under the dash (yes I am that bad).
The work has taken years off the interior.
I have to say with my recent part orders, a big thanks to a BMW Garage based out in Ballymena (being discreet to avoid any forum issues), Gordy and Uel have been very helpful.
(please excuse the poor photo, the flash taints the view)
However as usual, my OCD kicks in and a small job turns into a big job.
The alarm led / interior sensor disable button was damaged. The black plastic surround was cracked. A new led and loom was sourced, loom ran and the plug was pinned in...
The wooden dash was replaced. I've also learnt how to clean and polish veneer properly (all of the wood in the car has been cleaned and polished now lol).
A new cigarette lighter was installed, along with a bulb for the lighter socket.
The sound insulating foam that sits below the gaiter was replaced with a new item.
A new oem leather gaiter was installed.
As was a good as new wooden gear knob.
A seat belt bolt (a pillar) cover was also replaced.
While the dash sections were out, I cleaned and washed everything. Along with hoovering the carpet under the dash (yes I am that bad).
The work has taken years off the interior.
I have to say with my recent part orders, a big thanks to a BMW Garage based out in Ballymena (being discreet to avoid any forum issues), Gordy and Uel have been very helpful.
Stevie750iL said:
Stunning looking M3 Neil. Best combination, Estoril Blue with boot spoiler delete! I miss my Evo Saloon (M30 PED) I think th eguy that bought it from me killed it on the Nurburgring 
Thanks sir .I'd love to got for a blast on the ring with her. But that's exactly the reason I wouldn't. Well not in the M3 anyway.
Tonight was a quick little job... Replacing the Vanos to head bolts.
These match the rest of the bolts that had been replaced with the solenoid seal kit. It's a peace of mind and aesthetic decision.
(don't worry the engine isn't that grubby at all... but the cam cover certainly needs refinished)
Today I have also ordered the Bilstein B12 kit, woo hoo! I will update with photos when it arrives from Germany. Thinking about it, I may replace the front top mounts for good measure too.
These match the rest of the bolts that had been replaced with the solenoid seal kit. It's a peace of mind and aesthetic decision.
(don't worry the engine isn't that grubby at all... but the cam cover certainly needs refinished)
Today I have also ordered the Bilstein B12 kit, woo hoo! I will update with photos when it arrives from Germany. Thinking about it, I may replace the front top mounts for good measure too.
pat_y said:
I'm running the B12 kit on my 328 tourer, it is quite stiff and you tend to feel every pothole this godforsaken isle has to offer. Good control though, doesn't flinch when pushing on.
Thanks for the review of the B12 kit. I guess there has to be a comprise somewhere.The more I read about the OEM shocks and springs, the less I liked them. That's coming from someone keen to keep things OEM.
With the B12 kit, if the ride is a little sharper, but does ride a little stiffer, it is a compromise I am happy with. As long as it is over all an improvement.
It's part of my opinion on the car... If its worn and can't be refurbished, replace it with an OEM part, unless there is a genuine upgrade available, perhaps to address a known weak point.
pat_y said:
Understood, i may be being a little harsh in the Bilstein stuff, i am running powerflex or rogue engineering bushes everywhere and some fairly serious Eibach Anti Roll bars. It all feels a bit wasted at this time of year when grip is hard to find.
That's me thinking aloud on the car...I don't think I would go for harsher bushes on the car personally. I still want to leave some compliance within the car.
The Eibach ARBs do intrigue me... but I'll do one step at a time
EJH said:
My suspension firmed up nicely when I re-did it with OE shocks and (largely) OE bushes. It's not the firmest out there...but for how I use the car it feels to be the right balance for me.
I don't suppose you have seen any wooden gearknobs in your parts trawls? I only ask as it's the only part I need that isn't on BMW's parts catalogue...and the ring-rash (prev owner's wedding ring I assume) is irritating!
Sorry I have to say it, but you can great cream for that (ring-rash)... Sorry 5 year old sense of humour!I don't suppose you have seen any wooden gearknobs in your parts trawls? I only ask as it's the only part I need that isn't on BMW's parts catalogue...and the ring-rash (prev owner's wedding ring I assume) is irritating!
My initial concern was the OEM springs being of poor quality. So from a quality point of view I was going to go for Eibach springs. However when you read up on the OEM shocks, they have a small amount of travel (again only from what I have read). This is of course reduced when lowered on Eibach springs. I'm really justifying the B12 kit to myself, as I actually returned the OEM shocks when I changed my mind.
I haven't see any of reasonable quality to be honest. I lucked out and I was contact by a member of PistonHeads who had one in great nick. There are only two small
s out of the wood around the 4 o'clock position.I presume you mean the BMW item has "Ended" or isn't stocked any more?
I'll drop you a PM if I find one. However I have only ever seen one other respectable looking gear knob on eBay since I have had the car. You are welcome to have mine, while its in great nick, the wood is chipped where someone must have removed it with a crow bar at some stage...
EJH said:
Whilst I appreciate that there are some gains from dropping cars (be it handling or merely aesthetic) I have managed to resist the temptation to do it to either the 911 or the M3.
The M3, in particular, would be a problem for me it I did as the front spoiler is close enough to car park ramps but the more real risk is the centre of the car grounding on speed bumps or when going up car park ramps…at least over here.
Re: parts in stock, I tried to order one from the local BMW dealer and they were able to place the order with BMW…but were then told the part was NLA.
Totally agree. The B12 kit doesn't lower the car much so it shouldn't pose me a problem.The M3, in particular, would be a problem for me it I did as the front spoiler is close enough to car park ramps but the more real risk is the centre of the car grounding on speed bumps or when going up car park ramps…at least over here.
Re: parts in stock, I tried to order one from the local BMW dealer and they were able to place the order with BMW…but were then told the part was NLA.
Sorry to hear about the gear knob. I will keep my eyes open for one for you.
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