E46 M3 - Issues after pre-sale inspection
Discussion
Hi guys,
I've been hiding in the shadows a bit here, researching ahead of my recent purchase which is an E46 M3 coupe (2004). I'm now here hoping you might be able to give me a bit of further specific advice... I'm not particluarly mechanically minded so please be gentle..
I bought the car privately at the end of Jan this year and had a pre-purchase inspection done at a local indy which didn't show up any issues to be worried about - It's only covered 56,000 miles. After 3 weeks of having the car the alternator died leaving me stranded and having to get the car towed. I had it taken to the garage who did the inspection and they've now fitted a new alternator and all was back working well until yesterday the yellow oil light came on when I turned off the car. I went to check the dipstick and it was right on the bottom notch so figured it'd need topping up but then I noticed some oil spots on my driveway. I peered down behind the fan at the front and noticed a decent amount of oil down there on what I think is the undertray? Decided to play it safe and get the car towed (again!) back to the same indy garage which is where it is now and I'm waiting for their verdict on whats gone wrong.
The owner and main mechanic of the indy garage has an E46 M3 so I feel in pretty safe hands but I guess the question I have is: Having had an inspection done only 7 weeks ago, do I have any recourse with the garage now these issues are coming to light? - Should they have (or could they have?!) even spotted the alternator issue and whatever this issue is when they did the inspection??
I will report back with details of the oil leak but would be interested in any comments you have.
Thanks,
JsyM3
I've been hiding in the shadows a bit here, researching ahead of my recent purchase which is an E46 M3 coupe (2004). I'm now here hoping you might be able to give me a bit of further specific advice... I'm not particluarly mechanically minded so please be gentle..
I bought the car privately at the end of Jan this year and had a pre-purchase inspection done at a local indy which didn't show up any issues to be worried about - It's only covered 56,000 miles. After 3 weeks of having the car the alternator died leaving me stranded and having to get the car towed. I had it taken to the garage who did the inspection and they've now fitted a new alternator and all was back working well until yesterday the yellow oil light came on when I turned off the car. I went to check the dipstick and it was right on the bottom notch so figured it'd need topping up but then I noticed some oil spots on my driveway. I peered down behind the fan at the front and noticed a decent amount of oil down there on what I think is the undertray? Decided to play it safe and get the car towed (again!) back to the same indy garage which is where it is now and I'm waiting for their verdict on whats gone wrong.
The owner and main mechanic of the indy garage has an E46 M3 so I feel in pretty safe hands but I guess the question I have is: Having had an inspection done only 7 weeks ago, do I have any recourse with the garage now these issues are coming to light? - Should they have (or could they have?!) even spotted the alternator issue and whatever this issue is when they did the inspection??
I will report back with details of the oil leak but would be interested in any comments you have.
Thanks,
JsyM3
Excuse his Darth Vader impression, but I used this video as a "how to," check the health of my alternator on E46. It's simple, so a good inspection should surely have done it?
If they did, the question is can it suddenly deteriorate from good to a complete fail within 3 weeks. if that's possible, then it would be very difficult to prove against them.
http://youtu.be/3AajTPsJyPI
If you only just noticed the oil, then it could be difficult to prove the issue was present 7 weeks ago. It will depend what the diagnosis is, so I couldn't comment further.
To get the best out any help here, can you get the garage to itemise what exactly they inspected. That might allow those more mechanically minded than me, to see whether such an inspection could have reasonably picked up the issues. Also did you get a full diagnostic report? If so where there any fault codes?
If it were me, two fails would mean I would seek recourse, but we're all different. If the inspection you agreed to inspected the parts which are faulty, then you have a stronger recourse for a refund in my opinion. I would then spend that refund on another inspection elsewhere, as you don't want any other unknown problems.
One final point, I'm not that persuaded that a mechanic owning the same car as a customer is to the customer's benefit. Two mechanics, in my case, owned the same car : E46 330i and yet I moved my business elsewhere when my knowledge surpassed theirs on minor issues such as the alternator check, reprogramming keys and reseting throttle adaptions.
If they did, the question is can it suddenly deteriorate from good to a complete fail within 3 weeks. if that's possible, then it would be very difficult to prove against them.
http://youtu.be/3AajTPsJyPI
If you only just noticed the oil, then it could be difficult to prove the issue was present 7 weeks ago. It will depend what the diagnosis is, so I couldn't comment further.
To get the best out any help here, can you get the garage to itemise what exactly they inspected. That might allow those more mechanically minded than me, to see whether such an inspection could have reasonably picked up the issues. Also did you get a full diagnostic report? If so where there any fault codes?
If it were me, two fails would mean I would seek recourse, but we're all different. If the inspection you agreed to inspected the parts which are faulty, then you have a stronger recourse for a refund in my opinion. I would then spend that refund on another inspection elsewhere, as you don't want any other unknown problems.
One final point, I'm not that persuaded that a mechanic owning the same car as a customer is to the customer's benefit. Two mechanics, in my case, owned the same car : E46 330i and yet I moved my business elsewhere when my knowledge surpassed theirs on minor issues such as the alternator check, reprogramming keys and reseting throttle adaptions.
Turns out it was the timing chain tensioner - new seal fitted and a refill of oil. Two hours labour to locate, fix , refill and clean up the oil slick over the underside of the car...
Figured it was best to stump up £40 for a tow to the local Indy than run it and potentially do more damage.
Any ideas if this could have been spotted during a pre-purchase once over??
Figured it was best to stump up £40 for a tow to the local Indy than run it and potentially do more damage.
Any ideas if this could have been spotted during a pre-purchase once over??
I'm a Propulsion Engineer and know from experience that both of the issues you mention could have happened at anytime including the day after an inspection. One is an electrical component failure and the other is essentially an oil leak, either can happen at any time let alone within 7 weeks of an inspection.
It might not be the news you want to hear but I would say that you couldn't prove that either defect was present when you purchased the car especially since the oil didn't appear until weeks later and you drove the car for three weeks prior to the alternator failure. If it was defective at the point of sale the battery would have barely lasted hours.
It might not be the news you want to hear but I would say that you couldn't prove that either defect was present when you purchased the car especially since the oil didn't appear until weeks later and you drove the car for three weeks prior to the alternator failure. If it was defective at the point of sale the battery would have barely lasted hours.
t8cmf said:
I'm a Propulsion Engineer and know from experience that both of the issues you mention could have happened at anytime including the day after an inspection. One is an electrical component failure and the other is essentially an oil leak, either can happen at any time let alone within 7 weeks of an inspection.
It might not be the news you want to hear but I would say that you couldn't prove that either defect was present when you purchased the car especially since the oil didn't appear until weeks later and you drove the car for three weeks prior to the alternator failure. If it was defective at the point of sale the battery would have barely lasted hours.
Thanks for the comments. I don't have a problem paying for maintenance as I'm keen to keep my new toy in perfect order, I just don't like getting messed about so would be keen to push back on the bills if it's stuff they should have picked up when I had the car checked over. I expected the alternator would have been quick fail so was probably fine when I bought the car but wasn't so sure about the timing chain tensioner fault. It might not be the news you want to hear but I would say that you couldn't prove that either defect was present when you purchased the car especially since the oil didn't appear until weeks later and you drove the car for three weeks prior to the alternator failure. If it was defective at the point of sale the battery would have barely lasted hours.
The inspection 1 is scheduled for this summer so I'm going to try to get booked in at Munich Legends. Will also be asking them to give it a good going over to give me peace of mind.
t8cmf said:
I'm a Propulsion Engineer and know from experience that both of the issues you mention could have happened at anytime including the day after an inspection. One is an electrical component failure and the other is essentially an oil leak, either can happen at any time let alone within 7 weeks of an inspection.
It might not be the news you want to hear but I would say that you couldn't prove that either defect was present when you purchased the car especially since the oil didn't appear until weeks later and you drove the car for three weeks prior to the alternator failure. If it was defective at the point of sale the battery would have barely lasted hours.
Thanks for the comments. I don't have a problem paying for maintenance as I'm keen to keep my new toy in perfect order, I just don't like getting messed about so would be keen to push back on the bills if it's stuff they should have picked up when I had the car checked over. I expected the alternator would have been quick fail so was probably fine when I bought the car but wasn't so sure about the timing chain tensioner fault. It might not be the news you want to hear but I would say that you couldn't prove that either defect was present when you purchased the car especially since the oil didn't appear until weeks later and you drove the car for three weeks prior to the alternator failure. If it was defective at the point of sale the battery would have barely lasted hours.
The inspection 1 is scheduled for this summer so I'm going to try to get booked in at Munich Legends. Will also be asking them to give it a good going over to give me peace of mind.
JSY there are Other specialists around who will service your car. You need to get on to M3 Cutters ASAP.
If you can even just do basic maintenance on your M3 you will save a fortune, these cars are NOT cheap to run, particularly if your paying someone else ! There is a video on YOU Tube re how to change the engine oil and filter for example.
The alternator failed at around 80,000 on my one, ( shes now on 166,000 on that replacement alternator ) and still pulls like an express train.
If you can even just do basic maintenance on your M3 you will save a fortune, these cars are NOT cheap to run, particularly if your paying someone else ! There is a video on YOU Tube re how to change the engine oil and filter for example.
The alternator failed at around 80,000 on my one, ( shes now on 166,000 on that replacement alternator ) and still pulls like an express train.
neutral 3 said:
JSY there are Other specialists around who will service your car. You need to get on to M3 Cutters ASAP.
If you can even just do basic maintenance on your M3 you will save a fortune, these cars are NOT cheap to run, particularly if your paying someone else ! There is a video on YOU Tube re how to change the engine oil and filter for example.
The alternator failed at around 80,000 on my one, ( shes now on 166,000 on that replacement alternator ) and still pulls like an express train.
My alternator died around 65k. It took about 3hrs as for some reason my 2001 had different parts to the how to guide I found online. Top marks to the guy that made the guide!If you can even just do basic maintenance on your M3 you will save a fortune, these cars are NOT cheap to run, particularly if your paying someone else ! There is a video on YOU Tube re how to change the engine oil and filter for example.
The alternator failed at around 80,000 on my one, ( shes now on 166,000 on that replacement alternator ) and still pulls like an express train.
Koing
JsyM3 said:
Thanks for the comments. I don't have a problem paying for maintenance as I'm keen to keep my new toy in perfect order, I just don't like getting messed about so would be keen to push back on the bills if it's stuff they should have picked up when I had the car checked over. I expected the alternator would have been quick fail so was probably fine when I bought the car but wasn't so sure about the timing chain tensioner fault.
The inspection 1 is scheduled for this summer so I'm going to try to get booked in at Munich Legends. Will also be asking them to give it a good going over to give me peace of mind.
If you are going to travel to the mainland, get it up to Elms BMW in Cambourne.The inspection 1 is scheduled for this summer so I'm going to try to get booked in at Munich Legends. Will also be asking them to give it a good going over to give me peace of mind.
I've just had an Inspection 2 done on my CSL there, & they are superb.
Gareth is the tech & Emma is the service manager.
Worth the trip for sure.
t8cmf said:
I'm a Propulsion Engineer and know from experience that both of the issues you mention could have happened at anytime including the day after an inspection. One is an electrical component failure and the other is essentially an oil leak, either can happen at any time let alone within 7 weeks of an inspection.
It might not be the news you want to hear but I would say that you couldn't prove that either defect was present when you purchased the car especially since the oil didn't appear until weeks later and you drove the car for three weeks prior to the alternator failure. If it was defective at the point of sale the battery would have barely lasted hours.
Bought my M3 from an indie and I checked it all over. After getting home, noticed oil drip which was not there before. It too was the tensioner seal. Probably the car had been sitting in the showroom for a while and then my motorway drive back encouraged it to leak when the oil was up to temperature.It might not be the news you want to hear but I would say that you couldn't prove that either defect was present when you purchased the car especially since the oil didn't appear until weeks later and you drove the car for three weeks prior to the alternator failure. If it was defective at the point of sale the battery would have barely lasted hours.
Alternators being electrical can and do fail at any time.
(I was a propulsion engineer too...)
darreni said:
If you are going to travel to the mainland, get it up to Elms BMW in Cambourne.
I've just had an Inspection 2 done on my CSL there, & they are superb.
Gareth is the tech & Emma is the service manager.
Worth the trip for sure.
Any reason you went to these guys, especially seeing as they are a main dealer, rather than a recommended independent garage/specialist?I've just had an Inspection 2 done on my CSL there, & they are superb.
Gareth is the tech & Emma is the service manager.
Worth the trip for sure.
Lovely looking CSL btw! Bet you enjoyed getting it off the rock for a blast on the mainland?!
Can't wait to stretch the legs on mine when I take it over in June/July...!!
I think I have just been a bit unlucky having a couple of issues early on in my ownership of my M3 but fortunately neither have been major issues or particularly expensive to get sorted. Fingers crossed for a nice long period of trouble free motoring!
JsyM3
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