G82 M4... first impressions
Discussion
So I've got the use of a 23 plate M4 until Monday.
It's very different to the E90 M3...! It is noticeably faster. Like, much faster. The E90 is far from a slouch but this is in another league, I wonder whether the 510bp is conservative. My dad's old Jag F Type R was 550bhp and this feels every bit as fast, if not more so.
It rides surprisingly well, possibly better than the E90, which, after hearing reviews on the generation in between was quite welcome.
The steering feel is not a patch on the E90, it feels numb in comparison (and I am sure the E90 was slated when it was brand new....). The engine doesn't sound as nice, nor does it rev as freely, but the exhaust note is more naughty - I may do a little mod to my E90 at some point.
It has the carbon bucket seats which are really, really comfortable, but they aren't the most dignified to get in and out of!!
Would I take one over the E90? Daily driver.....absolutely. Country lane blast for fun.....I'm not so sure. It is so fast it could get very scary, very quickly and I think the E90 is the more rewarding to drive.
I shall very much enjoy the next few days with it, and I'm sure my E90 will feel dog slow when I get it back, but I'm sure I'll still love it.
It's very different to the E90 M3...! It is noticeably faster. Like, much faster. The E90 is far from a slouch but this is in another league, I wonder whether the 510bp is conservative. My dad's old Jag F Type R was 550bhp and this feels every bit as fast, if not more so.
It rides surprisingly well, possibly better than the E90, which, after hearing reviews on the generation in between was quite welcome.
The steering feel is not a patch on the E90, it feels numb in comparison (and I am sure the E90 was slated when it was brand new....). The engine doesn't sound as nice, nor does it rev as freely, but the exhaust note is more naughty - I may do a little mod to my E90 at some point.
It has the carbon bucket seats which are really, really comfortable, but they aren't the most dignified to get in and out of!!
Would I take one over the E90? Daily driver.....absolutely. Country lane blast for fun.....I'm not so sure. It is so fast it could get very scary, very quickly and I think the E90 is the more rewarding to drive.
I shall very much enjoy the next few days with it, and I'm sure my E90 will feel dog slow when I get it back, but I'm sure I'll still love it.
I think I've decided that in this colour (Sao Paulo yellow I believe) it's actually a bit too flash for me and a bit embarrassing. I'd rather it in a more darker hue. The car is fantastic though, but the engine lacks the character or noise of the E90, but it certainly has a punch to make up for it!
worsy said:
I've just ordered a 4 door version. I didn't go with the buckets because it is a family car and needs to be used by the wife. I think my 82 year old FiL would struggle a bit getting in and out with the buckets. they do look proper lovely though.
Agree on the colour; I'd have liked the Daytona Purple or maybe a Voodoo Blue for a mid way "look at me" colour. In the end it was a toss up between Black and Skyscraper grey and I went with the black.
Yeah I think black would work well. Enjoy, it is a lovely car!Agree on the colour; I'd have liked the Daytona Purple or maybe a Voodoo Blue for a mid way "look at me" colour. In the end it was a toss up between Black and Skyscraper grey and I went with the black.
cerb4.5lee said:
I love my F82 M4 as a daily(apart from the harsh ride), so I'd imagine the G82 M4 to be even better. It could be argued that the slightly softer ZF8 auto suits a daily more than a DCT as well. I'd love the xDrive version because I'd use the 4WD system over the winter with the poor weather, and I'd drive it over the summer in RWD only mode and enjoy a bit of slidey...slidey.
I didn't like the yellow much at first, but I did see a yellow G80 M3 the other day and it certainly had a lot of presence in that colour I thought though. I'd want mine in Tanzanite Blue I think.
Yeah I think as a daily it's a superb all rounder. The lack of steering feel is disappointing though. The steering, however, is very sharp and precise, just lack of feel compared to the E90. The stand out for me is the brakes though.I didn't like the yellow much at first, but I did see a yellow G80 M3 the other day and it certainly had a lot of presence in that colour I thought though. I'd want mine in Tanzanite Blue I think.
I think I will look to at least get more aggressive pads, better fluid and Goodridge hoses later in the year. Beyond that..... It's too costly and not worth it for the driving I do.
JEA1K said:
E90_M3Ross said:
Yeah I think as a daily it's a superb all rounder. The lack of steering feel is disappointing though. The steering, however, is very sharp and precise, just lack of feel compared to the E90. The stand out for me is the brakes though.
I think I will look to at least get more aggressive pads, better fluid and Goodridge hoses later in the year. Beyond that..... It's too costly and not worth it for the driving I do.
Apart from having the geometry done, this was the single best change to my E92 I've made. Braided hoses, Castrol SRF & Ferrodo DS Uno pads I can vouch for without going balls out Ap's/Brembos etc. Braking was immediately better .... previously after 4-5 moderate to hard pedal presses, I was getting excess pedal travel, grumbling and brake fade. I don't drive hard on the road. Straight away I could feel that the issues were sorted ... plenty of feel ... no extended pedal travel after mutiple uses. Managed a full track day and were as solid all day. I think I will look to at least get more aggressive pads, better fluid and Goodridge hoses later in the year. Beyond that..... It's too costly and not worth it for the driving I do.
The pads do often squeal in traffic but as I don't drive the car much, its not something I worry about.
Previously had AP's on my CSL with pagid RS29's and also pagid RS29's on my E36 M3 GT with standard brakes so these are good reference point. IMO a full brake ugrade is only relevent if you have a number on your car ...
Cheers.
I think us lot must be dinosaurs, the amount of positive comments the car gets is very surprising. Whether it's because "it looks new and shiny" or whether people genuinely like the design I'm not sure. I think overall it's quite fussy, and not elegant or pretty. The front I don't hate, but likewise I don't think "wow, that looks nice", I think it's quite ugly. It's brutish.
ro250 said:
bumskins said:
E90_M3Ross said:
The steering feel is not a patch on the E90, it feels numb in comparison (and I am sure the E90 was slated when it was brand new....). The engine doesn't sound as nice, nor does it rev as freely, but the exhaust note is more naughty - I may do a little mod to my E90 at some point.
Interesting re: the steering, it's one thing I noticed Plato pointed out when he back-to-backed an E46 and a G80 at Castle Combe. Could see from some of the onboards he had no confidence in what it was doing on corner exit, having to continually add tiny jabs of corrective lock whereas the E46 allowed him to indulge in the odd slide. I've done quite a lot of driving today, both motorway and a fair bit of spirited driving. The car is growing on me. It is a genuinely fun car.
Its capabilities are incredible. I feel like I'm barely scratching the surface but it is bonkers fast and composed, it inspires so much confidence.
I still don't like the steering. With the exhaust turned up loud when driving at 6 10ths it does sound quite good, but under full throttle, whilst not bad, it's not a patch on my S65 for noise, although performance is another level.
Love the brakes, love the performance, all you could ever need. I don't particularly like the instrument cluster, it's a bit too much "PlayStation", but that's me being a dinosaur probably.
I do miss the E90, but I am very worried it's going to feel dog slow when I get it back
The styling...... I don't mind it, but I certainly don't like it, especially the front. Rear I don't mind. I prefer the elegance of the E90. That said the M4 gets a LOT of attention. Mostly positives. So many nods, smiles, thumbs up. My neighbour asked if they could sit it in etc. That surprised me.
Overall it's a very good car. Is it worth almost 5x my E90? Not a chance!
Its capabilities are incredible. I feel like I'm barely scratching the surface but it is bonkers fast and composed, it inspires so much confidence.
I still don't like the steering. With the exhaust turned up loud when driving at 6 10ths it does sound quite good, but under full throttle, whilst not bad, it's not a patch on my S65 for noise, although performance is another level.
Love the brakes, love the performance, all you could ever need. I don't particularly like the instrument cluster, it's a bit too much "PlayStation", but that's me being a dinosaur probably.
I do miss the E90, but I am very worried it's going to feel dog slow when I get it back
The styling...... I don't mind it, but I certainly don't like it, especially the front. Rear I don't mind. I prefer the elegance of the E90. That said the M4 gets a LOT of attention. Mostly positives. So many nods, smiles, thumbs up. My neighbour asked if they could sit it in etc. That surprised me.
Overall it's a very good car. Is it worth almost 5x my E90? Not a chance!
MikeM6 said:
E90_M3Ross said:
I think us lot must be dinosaurs, the amount of positive comments the car gets is very surprising. Whether it's because "it looks new and shiny" or whether people genuinely like the design I'm not sure. I think overall it's quite fussy, and not elegant or pretty. The front I don't hate, but likewise I don't think "wow, that looks nice", I think it's quite ugly. It's brutish.
This is my view, it's just too brash to be good looking. I've not driven one, but it seems to be too fast and effective to be as much fun as it could be. I think I prefer feel and tactility rather than outright pace.Tagteam said:
What did you think when you got the e90 back
Mixed views! I'll try to summarise but give a bit of detail.Engine - As soon as I got in the M3, started it up and moved 6 feet immediately you feel "this engine just feels more special". That special is subjective, however. In my opinion, it just sounds better and more authentic. It is, however, noticeably slower. There is such a gulf in performance in a straight line. Is the E90 slow? No, of course not, it is still a quick car. You need to work it to get the best from it. For some that is a positive thing. It is, without a shadow of a doubt, the more rewarding engine. You WANT to rev it. The noise, the drama, 8400rpm, it is utterly glorious. If you want to make rapid progress, it can still very much do it, but if you want to make rapid progress without revving the engine hard....then the turbocharged 6 cylinder is the much better machine. I didn't like the way that when you get much past 6k rpm (but well before the 7200rpm redline) the power seems to drop off a bit. No encouragement to hit the redline, certainly compared to the wonder S65B40.
Gearbox - Honestly, not much between them. I think the DCT, again, offers more character and charm. It's smooth, but not AS smooth. It's faster, but not by much. It does a better job of rev matching (shift from 3rd to 2nd off the throttle in the E90 and the noise is grin-inducing - something the M4 couldn't hope to match). Ratios - DCT 7 speed are generally more "traditional" and there isn't a single overdrive gear - The E90 would go beyond top speed in 6th, and continue into 7th, whereas the newer car has 2 overdrive gears. The newer car is noticeably more economical. Which do I prefer? Honestly, I'm not fussed. There isn't much between them in my opinion. Drama? Probably DCT. Smoothness? ZF8. Daily driver? ZF8 probably. Weekend country blast? DCT.
Steering - Feel - no question, E90, all day long. The G82 is very light, and consistently so. It doesn't seem to weight up much, if at all. It is, however, incredibly accurate and direct. Without any shadow of a doubt, the E90 trumps it here. Although some might argue it is quite heavy at times.
Brakes - No question, G82. They're superb. The E90 brakes are very good and sharp, require a bit more force and arguably the pedal is a tad more linear, but I don't think they stop quite so well. It has definitely made me consider getting uprated pads (Ferodo DS2500 instead of the Brembo it has), fluid (Motul 660 instead of the basic ATE DOT4) and Goodridge braided hoses for improved performance. In reality, even for hard road driving, I don't think uprated calipers are necessary.
Chassis and suspension - G82, obviously. Only since having the E90 back have I really thrown it into some corners and to be honest with you, it is still so capable that I think if you're going beyond its limits on the road, you're driving way too fast. It is such a well sorted, balanced, and well-damped chassis that I think having a much more capable chassis on the road isn't necessary. On the track, however, this is obviously different. Ride quality.....honestly, I may go so far as to say the G82 has this. The E90 is far from harsh (as I gather the F80 can be), but I do think the G82 is better. It rides very well. My E90 doesn't have EDC, but I remember the firmest setting for that being ridiculous. I cannot remember comfort.
Interior - call me a luddite - but I prefer the E90 on the whole. It is well laid-out. I prefer the instrument cluster, I think the digital display is too much tech for the sake of it. I liked the HUD, I can live without it. Infotainment obviously better, but I'm actually having a new system fitted to my E90 tomorrow, including a reversing camera, so I'll have Android Auto, Apple CarPlay etc. The seats in the E90 are wonderful. The carbon buckets in the G82 were absolutely amazing. I loved them. Not an interior issue per se, but from the interior I found there to be a big blind spot where the OS mirror is. It can be hard to place the car accurately.
Styling - E90 seems so small and elegant. I much prefer it. I grew to like the G82 rear end's aggressive stance, but not the front end. Could I live with it? Of course, but not in that colour. It is also a much bigger car which would suit some, but I prefer the size of the E90.
Would I take a G80/2 M3/4 over the E90 if the prices/values were the same? Yes, I would (M3 for me, not M4). If mine is worth, maybe £22-23k (looking at examples online now) do I personally think a new one is worth 3-5x the price? No. If my car goes up in value, would I consider selling it and changing in 3-5 years time if I can get an XDrive G80 M3 Comp for the same price? Quite possibly. Am I disappointed to have the E90 back? Definitely not, it is a wonderful car.
Edited by E90_M3Ross on Thursday 27th April 21:30
cerb4.5lee said:
I really enjoyed reading your sum up thanks Ross. 
You're welcome! I'd love to try an F80/2 M3/4 to compare now! I think I'd like the performance but I gather the engine is more spiky and even less exciting than the current one, but until you try you never know.I know you didn't gel with your E90, we're all different but I absolutely understand why people prefer the turbo engines, certainly for daily drivers. I think for a weekend blast the E90 is quick enough. I do, however, feel that the M4 was putting out more than 510bhp. I've been in numerous 550bhp+ cars, even turbocharged ones, and this felt right up there, or even quicker. Was seriously potent.
Tagteam said:
What infotainment system are you fitting to the e90 - I’m keen to do the same to my e92. Is it DIY or going to an installer .
integratedautomotive.co.uk/product/2008-2013-bmw-3-series-all-body-shapes-e90-e91-e92-e93-carplay-and-android-auto-retrofit-multimedia-interface/I actually had it fitted yesterday, with reversing camera. It's definitely not DIY in my opinion (although I'm useless). Glove box needs to be dropped and lots of trim removed.
It's a really good bit of kit and brings the system bang up to date. I'm chuffed with it!
time waster said:
E90_M3Ross said:
Tagteam said:
What infotainment system are you fitting to the e90 - I’m keen to do the same to my e92. Is it DIY or going to an installer .
integratedautomotive.co.uk/product/2008-2013-bmw-3-series-all-body-shapes-e90-e91-e92-e93-carplay-and-android-auto-retrofit-multimedia-interface/I actually had it fitted yesterday, with reversing camera. It's definitely not DIY in my opinion (although I'm useless). Glove box needs to be dropped and lots of trim removed.
It's a really good bit of kit and brings the system bang up to date. I'm chuffed with it!
The car is pretty big, it certainly feels a lot bigger than the E90. It's over 20cm longer and also a fair bit wider.
The interior is nice, the materials feel fine but it doesn't feel "hemmed in" like the E90 does. It feels more like how a 5 series interior should in my opinion.
A touring would be very nice as a daily! You're right about the engine. Having said that though, anyone who says the S65 doesn't have enough torque for a daily is, in my opinion, daft. It isn't like a 60bhp hatchback.
The interior is nice, the materials feel fine but it doesn't feel "hemmed in" like the E90 does. It feels more like how a 5 series interior should in my opinion.
A touring would be very nice as a daily! You're right about the engine. Having said that though, anyone who says the S65 doesn't have enough torque for a daily is, in my opinion, daft. It isn't like a 60bhp hatchback.
KPB1973 said:
I think the E9x shape has aged amazingly well. In fact, it's got better with age rather than staying contemporary.
The sheer bulk of the G8x is enough to put me off. I don't mind a bit of a wider track on M-cars but it just looks a bit out of proportion width-wise.
I must admit to having mixed feelings about S65. It is a technical marvel but I always felt both of mine felt a bit too linear in their power delivery even when the revs were high. I prefer a bit of a rush to the redline on a high-revving n/a engine. In some ways I thought the turbo'd S55 had a bit more energy at the top end even if the noise / drama was lacking.
The discussion about torque will go round in circles for ever! I think they can feel a bit flat-footed in the 3k - 5k band, but they have excellent throttle response below that, and a good power band above it.
I honestly think most people who complain about the torque don't know how to drive it and use a gearbox.The sheer bulk of the G8x is enough to put me off. I don't mind a bit of a wider track on M-cars but it just looks a bit out of proportion width-wise.
I must admit to having mixed feelings about S65. It is a technical marvel but I always felt both of mine felt a bit too linear in their power delivery even when the revs were high. I prefer a bit of a rush to the redline on a high-revving n/a engine. In some ways I thought the turbo'd S55 had a bit more energy at the top end even if the noise / drama was lacking.
The discussion about torque will go round in circles for ever! I think they can feel a bit flat-footed in the 3k - 5k band, but they have excellent throttle response below that, and a good power band above it.
Its torque curve is very flat, and it produces over 400bhp. The trouble is people drive it like any other engine and moan. For example, if you typically shift gear at 1800rpm in a diesel which revs to 4500rpm, you wouldn't shift gear at 1800rpm with the S65. 8400rpm/4500rpm is 1.8666 times higher redline. So for the equivalent stress for the engine you would shift up at around 3300-3400rpm..... Drive it that way and, for a naturally aspirated car, it isn't weak at all.
You wouldn't shift at 2k rpm on a bike engine that revs to 15k and say it can't pull.....
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