996C4s or M3csl?? In fairness...
Discussion
Hello all, I posted this same topic in the porsche forum, so in the name of fairness I thought I should try here too.
In short I have an Exige...I can't fit the children in no matter how hard I push
so shes going to have to go.
It appears that I am not alone in shortlisting these two cars, a CSL or C4s. Indeed some here have owned both.
The responses on the porsche thread were very helpful and it was 50 - 50. General consensus being that if you do track days then the csl is better and the porsche is a porsche.
Anything else to add?
In short I have an Exige...I can't fit the children in no matter how hard I push
so shes going to have to go.It appears that I am not alone in shortlisting these two cars, a CSL or C4s. Indeed some here have owned both.
The responses on the porsche thread were very helpful and it was 50 - 50. General consensus being that if you do track days then the csl is better and the porsche is a porsche.
Anything else to add?
Which I think is fair comments from the Pork munchers.
CSL I would think is the more sensible option as I think you are getting yourself into a future classic which will set you up to lose very little money in forthcoming years. The 996 C4S has the weight of the 997 C4S mkt bearing down on it and ultimately these cars will just get cheaper and cheaper (remember there is no E92M3 CSL and you aren't talking about buying a 996GT3 by comparison)
For what you want sounds like the CSL is more practical with bigger rear seats and more load carrying capacity etc etc should you need it. The CSL also is probably the more focused track car and will be a cheaper car to run, service, get bits for.
CSL I would think is the more sensible option as I think you are getting yourself into a future classic which will set you up to lose very little money in forthcoming years. The 996 C4S has the weight of the 997 C4S mkt bearing down on it and ultimately these cars will just get cheaper and cheaper (remember there is no E92M3 CSL and you aren't talking about buying a 996GT3 by comparison)
For what you want sounds like the CSL is more practical with bigger rear seats and more load carrying capacity etc etc should you need it. The CSL also is probably the more focused track car and will be a cheaper car to run, service, get bits for.
houlbt said:
Which I think is fair comments from the Pork munchers.
CSL I would think is the more sensible option as I think you are getting yourself into a future classic which will set you up to lose very little money in forthcoming years. The 996 C4S has the weight of the 997 C4S mkt bearing down on it and ultimately these cars will just get cheaper and cheaper (remember there is no E92M3 CSL and you aren't talking about buying a 996GT3 by comparison)
For what you want sounds like the CSL is more practical with bigger rear seats and more load carrying capacity etc etc should you need it. The CSL also is probably the more focused track car and will be a cheaper car to run, service, get bits for.
Thanks CSL I would think is the more sensible option as I think you are getting yourself into a future classic which will set you up to lose very little money in forthcoming years. The 996 C4S has the weight of the 997 C4S mkt bearing down on it and ultimately these cars will just get cheaper and cheaper (remember there is no E92M3 CSL and you aren't talking about buying a 996GT3 by comparison)
For what you want sounds like the CSL is more practical with bigger rear seats and more load carrying capacity etc etc should you need it. The CSL also is probably the more focused track car and will be a cheaper car to run, service, get bits for.
Interestingly, running costs is where these two forums disagree. They say the 996 will be cheaper to run, service, insure...you say different.
I had an older M3 a few years back and the servicing was eye watering!!
Hi,
I was in thes ame boat as yourself....going from Lotus to a car with 4 seats. After 8 Lotus it was a big change...but the CSL fitted the bill as I still wanted a track focused car. I have just had an ispection 2 on my CSL and it was £750, but that is before you have things replaced,,brakes etc. I do believe the Porsche could be cheaper to run and although the C4S is another car on my wich list the back seats were just not suitable for what I needed. The other thing is the depreciation...CSL's still don't seem to loose a great deal where as the Porsche is still falling....both cars are great but for me the CSL was a better everyday 4 seater...plus that noise....drive both and see which you prefer but as soon as you hit the sport button in the CSL I think you may be hooked.
I was in thes ame boat as yourself....going from Lotus to a car with 4 seats. After 8 Lotus it was a big change...but the CSL fitted the bill as I still wanted a track focused car. I have just had an ispection 2 on my CSL and it was £750, but that is before you have things replaced,,brakes etc. I do believe the Porsche could be cheaper to run and although the C4S is another car on my wich list the back seats were just not suitable for what I needed. The other thing is the depreciation...CSL's still don't seem to loose a great deal where as the Porsche is still falling....both cars are great but for me the CSL was a better everyday 4 seater...plus that noise....drive both and see which you prefer but as soon as you hit the sport button in the CSL I think you may be hooked.
That doesn't sound right? I would always recommend a reputable independent specialist for servicing/care. Not a dealer. I find it hard to believe that parts etc for a BMW are more expensive than for a porsche, and would have thought labour rates comparable or arguably slightly lower for a BMW specialist.
My local BMW dealer was actualy the same as a specialist for the inspection 11. I sure that Porsche parts are more expensive than BME parts but BMW standard service is more than a Porsche standard servive...what I will say is that it all depends on how many miles you cover as well. Although the inspection 11 cost £750 I only do around 5k a year so will not need it done for at least two years so then it doesn't sound so bad at £360ish a year.
Andyt25 said:
My local BMW dealer was actualy the same as a specialist for the inspection 11. I sure that Porsche parts are more expensive than BME parts but BMW standard service is more than a Porsche standard servive...what I will say is that it all depends on how many miles you cover as well. Although the inspection 11 cost £750 I only do around 5k a year so will not need it done for at least two years so then it doesn't sound so bad at £360ish a year.
Your next service will be an oil service at £150, so £900 for 4 years...Oh that's not so bad then. I only do around 5K miles per year.
I live very close to Nick Johnson and he seems to have a quite a few in, I'll take a run down and have a look.
It appears to be the way to go: Lotus -> CSL or 911.
The exige is a right giggle though and the handling is something else!!
I live very close to Nick Johnson and he seems to have a quite a few in, I'll take a run down and have a look.
It appears to be the way to go: Lotus -> CSL or 911.
The exige is a right giggle though and the handling is something else!!
With you on that one..I've had a MRK1 and a MRK2 Exige and they are great fun and you will miss the way they go around bends, but I would not now sell the CSL for one now that I have lived with it day in day out. My last Lotus was a Sport160 and the CSL was much quicker..it blew me away on the first drive....the other thing that swayed towards the CSL over th 911 was the interior..The Porsche seemed much more low rent and plastic where as all that carbon and alcantara and those seats in the CSL was just up my street....
Burnt, just looked at your Exige...mine was a 2005, same colour and same spec...lovely car just wish I could have had both...I did ask the wife but the answer she gave started with F and ended in off.
Burnt, just looked at your Exige...mine was a 2005, same colour and same spec...lovely car just wish I could have had both...I did ask the wife but the answer she gave started with F and ended in off.
Edited by Andyt25 on Tuesday 2nd September 17:01
Went through the same decision about 2 months ago, so my 2p for what its worth. Had a Honda'd S2 elise, which i sold as it was getting too impractical, and ended up buying a CSL over a C4S because i thought it would better on track, would be less expensive to track, i could put my mtb in the back and i didn't like the interior of the C4S. Also, in IMO, not sure about the image of a 911, unless its a full balls-out GT3 RS.
Verdict after 2 months? As an every day road car, i don't think its that great - seats are uncomfortable, no steering feel at all and grip levels are so high even with PS2's its not that much fun on at vaguely sensible speeds, not bonded with SMG yet and its likes a drink. Have done 3 track days so far, and its good - fast, with ap's its good on the brakes, its really neutral without the traction control, makes a grrrreat noise and oversteer lairyness is available with a twitch of your right foot. On balance i like it, but don't love it - its the right balance of practical and ability on track for me at the moment, but will go back to an elise when two cars is easy.
Verdict after 2 months? As an every day road car, i don't think its that great - seats are uncomfortable, no steering feel at all and grip levels are so high even with PS2's its not that much fun on at vaguely sensible speeds, not bonded with SMG yet and its likes a drink. Have done 3 track days so far, and its good - fast, with ap's its good on the brakes, its really neutral without the traction control, makes a grrrreat noise and oversteer lairyness is available with a twitch of your right foot. On balance i like it, but don't love it - its the right balance of practical and ability on track for me at the moment, but will go back to an elise when two cars is easy.
Edited by big eyes on Tuesday 2nd September 20:05
well i have had c4 cab 996 turbo but i think i have more driving fun in the csl.
A few of us where at croft the other day and my friends exige s 240 was around the same around croft.
But as you say it has four seats , iso fix and a decent boot! 30 mpg on a run
As for the running costs i think the csl will be cheaper to run , thats what i am finding
plus there are only 422 csls around ( original figure )
good luck
A few of us where at croft the other day and my friends exige s 240 was around the same around croft.
But as you say it has four seats , iso fix and a decent boot! 30 mpg on a run
As for the running costs i think the csl will be cheaper to run , thats what i am finding
plus there are only 422 csls around ( original figure )
good luck
Burnt, also should have said that the standard breaks are poor if you are aiming to track the car...after about 2 or 3 laps they will be cooked so look for an car thats been upgraded if you are planning to track alot. Mine are standard and are OK for the road but I think a upgraded set of pads will just make a big difference on the road as well....
Must say I was also a bit worried about the SMG but after a day I loved it...you do need to learn how to drive the car to get the most out of it though....
I'm only small and find the seats very comfortable but you do find if you are big/tall they may or suit....the Porsche woiuld be more comfortable. Always find that when I sit in a Porsche it feels just right.
Must say I was also a bit worried about the SMG but after a day I loved it...you do need to learn how to drive the car to get the most out of it though....
I'm only small and find the seats very comfortable but you do find if you are big/tall they may or suit....the Porsche woiuld be more comfortable. Always find that when I sit in a Porsche it feels just right.
I havn't tried a standard csl but I am v. impressed with the steering in the csl (negative camber & rock hard springs!!)
I am used to Elises & caterhams & enjoy the steering in the bm. I am happy it is on par with gt3's too.
Tyres also make a big difference to it.
The Csl is a very practical car size wise - basically the same as a 3 series saloon on interior space & boot size. I love Porsches - I have always wanted one since being 15 but I would not consider a non GT3 or RS model. I don;t really think a c4s compares to a csl - it would be a choice between standard m3 & c4s I would think.
I havn't experienced much of the running costs yest but tyres & brakes will be about the same I would think. I have a warranty for expensive problems.
If I didn't need a boot & rear seats I would probably have an Exige too.
I am used to Elises & caterhams & enjoy the steering in the bm. I am happy it is on par with gt3's too.
Tyres also make a big difference to it.
The Csl is a very practical car size wise - basically the same as a 3 series saloon on interior space & boot size. I love Porsches - I have always wanted one since being 15 but I would not consider a non GT3 or RS model. I don;t really think a c4s compares to a csl - it would be a choice between standard m3 & c4s I would think.
I havn't experienced much of the running costs yest but tyres & brakes will be about the same I would think. I have a warranty for expensive problems.
If I didn't need a boot & rear seats I would probably have an Exige too.
Have driven the porsche and yes its good(not owned one), its alot softer and has alot less room front and back, dont think it was as quick as my CSL too, loved the steering feel in it but did not think you can take liberty's with the grip as u can with the CSL.
Iam 6ft 3" and find the seats very comfy in my CSL, in fact went to british super bikes the other weekend and the best part of the day was the journey there and back
Build quality is good in both, little rattles n squeaks, only downside to the CSL is the suspension, its quite hard but its easy to get used too as i drive it every day, and having owned a R33GTR and R34GTR its about the same as these.
As for running costs alot is down too how anal you are, i spent a fair bit as i want the car perfect, so new front spliters,csl door seal thingy's,front bumper stripped re primed and sprayed, 2 wheels re furbed, remap for smoother rev range and no Kangeroo effect when cold,early inspection 1 (fluid changes), and new tires as conti 3's were not very good, but BMW extended warranty is a must i think ive had quite a few things on this already
Iam 6ft 3" and find the seats very comfy in my CSL, in fact went to british super bikes the other weekend and the best part of the day was the journey there and back
Build quality is good in both, little rattles n squeaks, only downside to the CSL is the suspension, its quite hard but its easy to get used too as i drive it every day, and having owned a R33GTR and R34GTR its about the same as these.
As for running costs alot is down too how anal you are, i spent a fair bit as i want the car perfect, so new front spliters,csl door seal thingy's,front bumper stripped re primed and sprayed, 2 wheels re furbed, remap for smoother rev range and no Kangeroo effect when cold,early inspection 1 (fluid changes), and new tires as conti 3's were not very good, but BMW extended warranty is a must i think ive had quite a few things on this already
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