996C4s or M3csl?? In fairness...
Discussion
In what respect?? An e92 m3 is in a different league to the csl but I would never compare the two. I think if you are after a road car then the porsche and m3 are comparable. If you want a competant track toy that you can drive on the road in between then surely you would compare an rs / gt3 to a csl.
m12_nathan said:
C4S = the gayest 996 ever sold, why do you need 4wd?
What are you on about you idiot? How old are you, 12!It sticks to the road like glue and has the best looks of the 911 range
Wait there, I'll trade it in for a TVR just in case my sexuality is compromised.......................
Not 12, just think it is the estate agents choice, though obviously the ultimate estate agents choice would be a tiptronic 4s cab , basically it is a slower version of the turbo produced for marketing reasons and for people who care more about the wide body and image than they do about driving.
4wd in any 911 is utterly pointless IMO. c2 has so much traction it renders the c4 pointless in our climate.
, basically it is a slower version of the turbo produced for marketing reasons and for people who care more about the wide body and image than they do about driving.4wd in any 911 is utterly pointless IMO. c2 has so much traction it renders the c4 pointless in our climate.
m12_nathan said:
4wd in any 911 is utterly pointless IMO. c2 has so much traction it renders the c4 pointless in our climate.
Pointless in our climate? Have you looked out of the window recently? Rain, rain, rain mate!When I jump in my 911 on a Saturday to go for a spin up the mountains I like to give it some beans regardless of conditions, if I wanted some arse out fun I would have bought a GT3
The 996 C4S was the best of the 996, bar the GT3 that is. It's a different car to the CSL and unlike the 993 C4S it was more than a turbo bodykitted 911...would I have one over my CSL...not sure but if I did I wouldn't see it as a step back. I know that it was a big step for you Gilford going from the CSL from the post on MTORQUE but it would seem that you have made the right choice and you are enjoying the car.
It is a lot softer than the CSL and 4wd is just extra weight and drivetrain losses that aren't required. 125kg heavier than a C2 with the same power, 65kg more than the C4 which has the same power and 4wd system.
I thought it was just a C4 with a turbo body on it - same power as C2 and C4, what else is different? It has the same 0-60 as a C2, slower than a C4, it has a lower top speed than a C2 and a C4, really does seem to be a marketing special...
Go and drive a C2 in the wet, it has mental levels of traction and that is with 21 more bhp per ton than the C4S.
I thought it was just a C4 with a turbo body on it - same power as C2 and C4, what else is different? It has the same 0-60 as a C2, slower than a C4, it has a lower top speed than a C2 and a C4, really does seem to be a marketing special...
Go and drive a C2 in the wet, it has mental levels of traction and that is with 21 more bhp per ton than the C4S.
It seems you are far more into the way a car will perform on the limit in the hands of a pro driver than you are in "real world" situations mate.
I can get round corners much quicker in my C4s than I could in the CSL purely because of the 4WD and the confidence it gives me with its feel on the road.
I am not debating that a CSL or a C2 for that matter driven properly by a pro would be a better car but for everyday driving, and the sheer looks alone, the C4s wins hands down! Why else would it demand a much higher price tag on the second hand market as opposed to a same year and spec C2/C4?
I can get round corners much quicker in my C4s than I could in the CSL purely because of the 4WD and the confidence it gives me with its feel on the road.
I am not debating that a CSL or a C2 for that matter driven properly by a pro would be a better car but for everyday driving, and the sheer looks alone, the C4s wins hands down! Why else would it demand a much higher price tag on the second hand market as opposed to a same year and spec C2/C4?
To be honest, I love 911's and I do like the c4s but in my opinion, the reason for the huge premium over a c2 etc. is because it looks like a turbo but has c2 running costs.
I used to aspire to a c4s and I agree that as a road car it would be the one to go for for looks and everyday use. I have since got quite into track days and would now not consider one. I am pretty sure M12 is a regular track day goer too & from that point of view it is hard to see the appeal of such a car.
Like I say though, I do 'get it' and completely see your point of view.
I used to aspire to a c4s and I agree that as a road car it would be the one to go for for looks and everyday use. I have since got quite into track days and would now not consider one. I am pretty sure M12 is a regular track day goer too & from that point of view it is hard to see the appeal of such a car.
Like I say though, I do 'get it' and completely see your point of view.
I haven't said anything about on the limit - that is the point, you are carrying around that extra weight and extra drive train losses for no reason 99.9% of the time. You can only drive to visibility on the road anyway so any extra on road ability is irrelevant most of the time - the quickest road driver is the one prepared to take most risks, not the one with 4wd. I'd rather have a lighter car and no power through the front wheels.
A regular c2 has so much traction I can't see why 4wd is needed anyway, they are immense in the wet!
As an aside I have a friend with a 996 c4, we went out on the roads near his house, through a sweeping left hander he could carry about 90 mph, I then let him drive mine and straight away he took it at about 105mph so I'd suggest there was something wrong with the setup on your CSL if the 911 inspires that much more confidence...
If all you care about is point to point on road ability then an Evo would be better than the c4s, as would the turbo, I just don't see the point in it in the range other than for marketing.
A regular c2 has so much traction I can't see why 4wd is needed anyway, they are immense in the wet!
As an aside I have a friend with a 996 c4, we went out on the roads near his house, through a sweeping left hander he could carry about 90 mph, I then let him drive mine and straight away he took it at about 105mph so I'd suggest there was something wrong with the setup on your CSL if the 911 inspires that much more confidence...
If all you care about is point to point on road ability then an Evo would be better than the c4s, as would the turbo, I just don't see the point in it in the range other than for marketing.
m12_nathan said:
If all you care about is point to point on road ability then an Evo would be better than the c4s, as would the turbo, I just don't see the point in it in the range other than for marketing.
An evo is a chav car, I dont like the look or the running costs of a turbo and the CSL was set up just fine The C4s is THE best looking 911, it has been discussed time after time and always the same outcome, hence the higher price. Is it a marketing ploy? Probably, but I love it and it looks the nuts so I'm happy
m12_nathan said:
C4S = the gayest 996 ever sold, why do you need 4wd?
x2 !! 
i'm joking, i didn't mean to offend gays ! LOL the c4s its THHuper !!!
( no offence to any Porsche 996 C4s owners, just some fun ) gilford said:
The C4s is THE best looking 911, it has been discussed time after time and always the same outcome, hence the higher price. Is it a marketing ploy? Probably, but I love it and it looks the nuts so I'm happy
What !! LOL come on your biased !! ( but then again so am i ) 
The Gt2 is the best looking 996, followed by the GT3 RS, then the Gt3 then the C2s.
I honeslty think a CSL looks better than any 996 Carrera, something to do with fitness for purpose.
I just do not get the point ofa 4wd NA porsche, is not the whole point of a 911 to try and control the weight in the back yourself, ie drive it ?
Ps: Gilford didn't you have the 335i with a chip/tuning box ? did you not like it ? is the C4s a better car ?
Back to the OP's question, coming from an Exige you will love the CSL, it might not have the steering feel or chuckability of the exige but think of it as M GMBHs version of a 4 seater sports car.
Amazing steering feel can be had with negative camber and sport cups and a qaulity suspension,
Not that it does not have good steering feel. Murketts of Huntingdon set my car up for fast road use and it feels amazing but no where near a IntraX KIT.
But when you are looking at upgrading suspension to Intrax hopefully you should be able to fully utalise a stock setup CSL , the aftermarket suspension is for the boys who know how to drive, OH and the rich wannabe racer.
The engine is one of the greats , the last of the NA I6 M power engines.
As an overall piece of kit the CSL is amazing with a few choice mods it can be great on a Porsche GT3 RS level.
M12 Nathan has the right points about the 996 C4s in my view and sound knowledge on the CSL.
True The C4s is not a horrid car, but can you really fit your kids comfortably in the back ?
Will it fullfill your needs as a driver after coming from a hardcore Exige ? ?
Will you be happy seeing a Gt3 / Turbo going past the other way and thinking damn i wish i had that over this C4s ?
gilford said:
It seems you are far more into the way a car will perform on the limit in the hands of a pro driver than you are in "real world" situations mate.
I can get round corners much quicker in my C4s than I could in the CSL purely because of the 4WD and the confidence it gives me with its feel on the road.
See that is the point Gilford, as a CSL driver i am not too bothered about being quicker than anything point to point, Im too busy Smiling like an Rtard as i hook up a corner perfectly or revelling in the info the car is sending me through the steering wheel, the seat, the noise of the engine, or absolutly sI can get round corners much quicker in my C4s than I could in the CSL purely because of the 4WD and the confidence it gives me with its feel on the road.
tting myself(adrenaline rush !!) as i think i've pushed it too hard in the rain or i've lost slight control. Fun isn't past the corner on the straight after it, or the time it took to drive the corner. No its the bit when you feel like a giddy over the moon child feeding in steering, adjusting your throttle, heart beating, blood pumpimg, engine revving, tyres giving up grip, body rolling etc and knowing that the corner was taken well, Ie you came out the other side intact LOL !!!
The CSL will make you go looking for roads to enjoy, dry or wet, slow or fast the CSL is a drivers car that drivers will enjoy.
I have no doubt the C4s is compatent road car and a good drive, but it aint no CSL .
I am biased but i've had alot of cars and the longest 2 cars i have in my possesion are a E36 3.2 and a CSL, theres a reason. I will be having a Porsche soon but unless its GT tagged, its not going to make me happy
ALso OP, BurnT, did you ever consider keeping the exige and buying a used E34/E39/E60 M5 ??? i hear they are good !! LOL ( the E39 is the dogs b
ks but im biased! )Gilford is the only one who has had both on this thread, so you should ask him about whats important to you on ownership of either car.
whatever you decide, good luck with it bud and let us know how it goes on?
regards,
Raj
Edited by C5L on Friday 19th September 02:20
[quote=C5L
Back to the OP's question, coming from an Exige you will love the CSL, it might not have the steering feel or chuckability of the exige but think of it as M GMBHs version of a 4 seater sports car.
[/quote]
Hit the nail on the head...after 8 Lotus the CSL was just like a big four seat version and the natural car to go for.
Back to the OP's question, coming from an Exige you will love the CSL, it might not have the steering feel or chuckability of the exige but think of it as M GMBHs version of a 4 seater sports car.
[/quote]
Hit the nail on the head...after 8 Lotus the CSL was just like a big four seat version and the natural car to go for.
I loved the CSL 
But after 2 years of ownership and 2 M3's before it I thought the shape was dated and I was very bored with the cockpit view.
I really enjoy having "special" cars, I love the attention they attract and the smile factor when you drive them but a BMW is a BMW, ie NOT a Porsche
In my last year of CSL ownership BMW were so far up there own arse when I took it in for a service, and there was me thinking I was driving one of their "bench mark cars"
My service bills would always be in excess of £1k (bar an oil change) 
Another reason I kept hold of the CSL was that its residuals were bullet proof, but even that has changed, a decent one can be had for £26k now
At the end of the day its your cash, and we can debate all day what WE think is better but it is YOU that has to live with it so it is ultimately your choice!
If you want a car that is superb on a track, can sit 4 people and put suitcases in the boot, but can rattle your teeth out on the way to work and give your wife whiplash when you change gear in S6 mode, go for the CSL! It is also a very inconspicuous car, drawing no attention to it unless it is "a trained eye".
If you want a sense of "occasion" every time you get in a car, have a proper looking supercar sat on the drive, and every time you pop down the shops for some milk have some guy stood by it oggling it and wanting a chat about it because he would love one, get the 911 C4S!
If I had both of them parked next to each other, and after owning both, I would pick the 911 every time
I NEVER tracked my CSL though, so I suppose you could say that I "never used it for its true potential"? In real life day to day driving, they are pretty matched for performance as well
But after 2 years of ownership and 2 M3's before it I thought the shape was dated and I was very bored with the cockpit view.
I really enjoy having "special" cars, I love the attention they attract and the smile factor when you drive them but a BMW is a BMW, ie NOT a Porsche
In my last year of CSL ownership BMW were so far up there own arse when I took it in for a service, and there was me thinking I was driving one of their "bench mark cars"
My service bills would always be in excess of £1k (bar an oil change) Another reason I kept hold of the CSL was that its residuals were bullet proof, but even that has changed, a decent one can be had for £26k now
At the end of the day its your cash, and we can debate all day what WE think is better but it is YOU that has to live with it so it is ultimately your choice!
If you want a car that is superb on a track, can sit 4 people and put suitcases in the boot, but can rattle your teeth out on the way to work and give your wife whiplash when you change gear in S6 mode, go for the CSL! It is also a very inconspicuous car, drawing no attention to it unless it is "a trained eye".
If you want a sense of "occasion" every time you get in a car, have a proper looking supercar sat on the drive, and every time you pop down the shops for some milk have some guy stood by it oggling it and wanting a chat about it because he would love one, get the 911 C4S!
If I had both of them parked next to each other, and after owning both, I would pick the 911 every time
I NEVER tracked my CSL though, so I suppose you could say that I "never used it for its true potential"? In real life day to day driving, they are pretty matched for performance as well
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