Cheap Muscle Car
Discussion
Forget the Beemer, for total anonymity, why not buy a Toyota Corolla..... sheesh, my 4th gen was in a different league to BMWs and capable of leaving a contemporary M3 at the lights and with proper suspension and subframe connectors very handy through the corners too.
It's ridiculous to suggest that the Americans copied any Japanese design since these cars are in development for years before release. Yet the last RX7 bore an uncanny resemblance to the Corvette C5 at the front and the 4th Gen TA at the back. It seems to me that cars were just evolving that way. The front headlamps on the 4th gen Camaro were simply an evolution of the 3rd gen binnacles and the cabin/T-top design was almost "as before". The early 4th gen TA was also an evolution of the "tadpole" - nosed 3rd gen, particularly notable in the Formula version. I don't think the Camaro or TA needed to compete with a minor seller like the Mitsi GTO/Dodge Stealth clones and the only competition that mattered was the Mustang which despite lacklustre styling (that owed more to an XR3 than Mustangs of old) still outsold the GM twins something like 3 to 1 despite a shedload less power in the V8 versions. I put this down to the fact that the Mustang was physically smaller and more normal and sold in droves to women who wanted something more like a saloon. The 4th Gen has a low-slung seating position like a Corvette and is much harder to position than a Mustang. Maybe the Mustangs "European" styling also struck a chord with Euro-obsessed Americans.
Anyway, long and short, buy a 4th gen. Most power, best handling (always came top in contemporary American road tests). Despite having a blown 2005 Mustang I still miss mine, they really do get under your skin.
It's ridiculous to suggest that the Americans copied any Japanese design since these cars are in development for years before release. Yet the last RX7 bore an uncanny resemblance to the Corvette C5 at the front and the 4th Gen TA at the back. It seems to me that cars were just evolving that way. The front headlamps on the 4th gen Camaro were simply an evolution of the 3rd gen binnacles and the cabin/T-top design was almost "as before". The early 4th gen TA was also an evolution of the "tadpole" - nosed 3rd gen, particularly notable in the Formula version. I don't think the Camaro or TA needed to compete with a minor seller like the Mitsi GTO/Dodge Stealth clones and the only competition that mattered was the Mustang which despite lacklustre styling (that owed more to an XR3 than Mustangs of old) still outsold the GM twins something like 3 to 1 despite a shedload less power in the V8 versions. I put this down to the fact that the Mustang was physically smaller and more normal and sold in droves to women who wanted something more like a saloon. The 4th Gen has a low-slung seating position like a Corvette and is much harder to position than a Mustang. Maybe the Mustangs "European" styling also struck a chord with Euro-obsessed Americans.
Anyway, long and short, buy a 4th gen. Most power, best handling (always came top in contemporary American road tests). Despite having a blown 2005 Mustang I still miss mine, they really do get under your skin.
LuS1fer said:
Forget the Beemer, for total anonymity, why not buy a Toyota Corolla..... sheesh, my 4th gen was in a different league to BMWs and capable of leaving a contemporary M3 at the lights and with proper suspension and subframe connectors very handy through the corners too.
It's ridiculous to suggest that the Americans copied any Japanese design since these cars are in development for years before release. Yet the last RX7 bore an uncanny resemblance to the Corvette C5 at the front and the 4th Gen TA at the back. It seems to me that cars were just evolving that way. The front headlamps on the 4th gen Camaro were simply an evolution of the 3rd gen binnacles and the cabin/T-top design was almost "as before". The early 4th gen TA was also an evolution of the "tadpole" - nosed 3rd gen, particularly notable in the Formula version. I don't think the Camaro or TA needed to compete with a minor seller like the Mitsi GTO/Dodge Stealth clones and the only competition that mattered was the Mustang which despite lacklustre styling (that owed more to an XR3 than Mustangs of old) still outsold the GM twins something like 3 to 1 despite a shedload less power in the V8 versions. I put this down to the fact that the Mustang was physically smaller and more normal and sold in droves to women who wanted something more like a saloon. The 4th Gen has a low-slung seating position like a Corvette and is much harder to position than a Mustang. Maybe the Mustangs "European" styling also struck a chord with Euro-obsessed Americans.
Anyway, long and short, buy a 4th gen. Most power, best handling (always came top in contemporary American road tests). Despite having a blown 2005 Mustang I still miss mine, they really do get under your skin.
I personally think it all boils down to a matter of taste, i prefer the angular styling of the third gen, which is why if money wasnt a problem i would go for a Charger or GTO, both squared off cars from the late 60's, whereas you may prefer the softer styling of a 2nd gen T/A or Camaro.It's ridiculous to suggest that the Americans copied any Japanese design since these cars are in development for years before release. Yet the last RX7 bore an uncanny resemblance to the Corvette C5 at the front and the 4th Gen TA at the back. It seems to me that cars were just evolving that way. The front headlamps on the 4th gen Camaro were simply an evolution of the 3rd gen binnacles and the cabin/T-top design was almost "as before". The early 4th gen TA was also an evolution of the "tadpole" - nosed 3rd gen, particularly notable in the Formula version. I don't think the Camaro or TA needed to compete with a minor seller like the Mitsi GTO/Dodge Stealth clones and the only competition that mattered was the Mustang which despite lacklustre styling (that owed more to an XR3 than Mustangs of old) still outsold the GM twins something like 3 to 1 despite a shedload less power in the V8 versions. I put this down to the fact that the Mustang was physically smaller and more normal and sold in droves to women who wanted something more like a saloon. The 4th Gen has a low-slung seating position like a Corvette and is much harder to position than a Mustang. Maybe the Mustangs "European" styling also struck a chord with Euro-obsessed Americans.
Anyway, long and short, buy a 4th gen. Most power, best handling (always came top in contemporary American road tests). Despite having a blown 2005 Mustang I still miss mine, they really do get under your skin.
Anyway, long and short, buy a 3rd gen, better looking, appreciating in value, best handling american car of its time, proper old school cast iron lump, and you get the choice of the muscular Iroc Z, you can only get a Z28 in the 4th gen line up!!
Ben
Edited by bloodyniceben on Saturday 14th July 11:07
qube_TA said:
Ah, now if you want any details on that GTA give me a shout, thats my mates car, he has moved out of his parents but the car is still there getting in the way. The car is located in Eastbourne. It needs some work but is very reliable, and has had a lot of money spent on it, you could do a lot worse.Ben
What about this?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/198164.htm
Similar to mine and looks a good price to me.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/198164.htm
Similar to mine and looks a good price to me.
Having decided to keep my Mk1 Escort, I'm planning to sell my 4th Gen Camaro Z28 auto in the near future. Only 30K miles from new, 18" alloys (originals supplied), Wings West rear spoiler (original supplied), lowered (Eibach springs), specific fit towbar from USA which is almost invisible when the tow ball is off (receiver type). Also has flamed gauge faces and a Bose CD/Tape/Radio from a Caddy Escalade, with 6 disc changer in the glovebox. It's a proper 275hp V8 car, not the V6 version. It does have an ABS fault which I plan to look at. Doesn't affect the braking power, only the ABS. Air-con needs a recharge too, but otherwise in near mint condition. I'll be looking to get £4500 for it. PM me if you want any more info. Here's a pic, there are more available through my profile on the link in "my cars" if you're interested.
Early 4th gen probably the best power/performance for around £4k.
However, I personnally couldn't live with the styling, the front end looks like it's was never finished properly (bit like the 3rd gen Berlinettas) and REALLy don't like the bonnet/wing shaping up to the mirrors.. Not that keen on the headlights either.
Good cars though - Optispark can play up too I've also heard.
However, I personnally couldn't live with the styling, the front end looks like it's was never finished properly (bit like the 3rd gen Berlinettas) and REALLy don't like the bonnet/wing shaping up to the mirrors.. Not that keen on the headlights either.
Good cars though - Optispark can play up too I've also heard.
Joe Rotax said:
A thirdgen is probably the best buy if you can find a decent one. They are easy to work on and can be made to handle very well although none of them had any real power from the factory.
It's "torque" that gets you off the line so don't be fooled by base bhp figures alone. I'd say avoid the 2nd gen 80/81 4.9L turbo. Save up and buy a 3rd gen 89 Turbo ;-) http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=H8DUIa3HYZEws6 said:
Joe Rotax said:
A thirdgen is probably the best buy if you can find a decent one. They are easy to work on and can be made to handle very well although none of them had any real power from the factory.
It's "torque" that gets you off the line so don't be fooled by base bhp figures alone. I'd say avoid the 2nd gen 80/81 4.9L turbo. Save up and buy a 3rd gen 89 Turbo ;-) http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=H8DUIa3HYZEws6 said:
It's "torque" that gets you off the line so don't be fooled by base bhp figures alone.
I have a ZZ4 in my 83TA which makes around 355 FWHP and 404 ft/lbs so it's quick by most standards but you just get used to it and then it's time to look for more power.The car originally had an LG4 in it which only made about 150 FWHP but it was quite quick off the lne for what it was. Headers and a 3 inch exhast really woke the LG4 up but it was nothing like the ZZ4 which pulls right up 140 mph where it tachs out with the present gearing.
and here's another. £4950 ono
http://www.pontiac.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?b=...
http://www.pontiac.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?b=...
Edited by ws6 on Saturday 21st July 11:22
v8 racing said:
Sorry am i missing something here? the original post was about muscle cars.. thes sort of cars ended in around 73, as for jap crap sorry they dont have muscle!! ok they may make they same horsepower but over a very narrow power band once the hairdrier has wound itself up!
I think you are, where does Japanese cars ever get mentioned as an option ?Agreed the end of the proper muscle car era but the original post says "Cheap Muscle Car" so unless its a basket case, there is no such thing.
example : 1974 formula 455 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PONTIAC-FIREBIRD-FORMULA-455...
wants about £2K for it and its in bits
v8 racing said:
Sorry am i missing something here? the original post was about muscle cars.. thes sort of cars ended in around 73, as for jap crap sorry they dont have muscle!! ok they may make they same horsepower but over a very narrow power band once the hairdrier has wound itself up!
Sorry to disagree but now is the greatest era ever for American muscle cars. The pre-'72 stuff was quoted in gross hp and fell far short of quoted figures. The LT1-engined F-bodies made an honest 275hp, the later Mustang SN95s 265hp, The LS1-engined F-bodies never made less than 300hp, the "Terminator" 2004 Cobra made over 400hp, the Vettes made 350hp and the Z06 and GT500 make 500hp or more. Even the Chrysler 300C and Dodge Charger can be had in 425hp SRT-8 format. The Pontiac GTO (OK, it's a LHD Monaro)came with a 400hp 6.0 LS2. Of course, the fact that they all handle and have brakes and aren't actually dangerous to drive probably takes the edge away but please, let's throw away those rose-tints. To make an old muscle car go fast takes lots of money and a lot of blood, sweat and tears and even when you're done, you won't see the modren stuff for dust on a public road.No point dissing the Japanese "muscle cars" either. The 350Z may not have a V8 but it's as good a muscle car as was ever made.
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