4th gen Z28 question
Discussion
Thats the same as I've seen on some other cars then, but its a dead giveaway that its got the little LED in the panel by the headlamp adjuster in the centre console. Nothing there on our 2002 car at all and Maudy says his alarm hub/siren is behind a headlight. Only thing behind a headlight on ours is the horns down the bottom on the passenger side. Bauer Millett service dept. looked at the build sheet/conversion sheet for me and nothing is listed as per an alarm although they say that some of the factory UK conversions that GM did back then had alarms hidden under the carpet and it may or may not be listed on the sheet, but I haven't come across anything yet.
Hmmm, well I've still not found anything hidden yet! According to BM all the UK cars which everyone I've spoken to said were converted to Eurospec in Germany, were actually shipped direct from Canada/US to the UK Vauxhall distributor and converted there. Seems like there's a lot of rumour surrounding these cars but very little proper history. I have a number for the UK Cadi/Corvette distribution centre that came with the original European warranty etc (all written in German) so I might try giving them a buzz to see if there's any more info forthcoming that way. You'd think if the alarm was fitted as standard equipment because of the type approval security requirements (as opposed to the SVA requirements) that all cars would have been fitted with the same/similar alarm setups upon conversion to Eurospec along with the other electrical work by the Vaux/GM distributor.
, ill send you a PM
well I've been and seen the car and will have to go back for a 2nd look... lots of good stuff (some of which wasn't expected) and a few bit that will need looking at (though it's been promised should I end up buying that these issues will be resolved). One of the smaller/non-issues is the typical dealer's insistance that the dash is smothered in dash polish of some sort or another and is horribly glossy (WTF do they do that????)
That aside I've got to try for a longer and more varied drive as it really didn't seem to have the 'urge' I expected (now part of that may well be that I really don't want to rag the s
t out of a car I'm testing together with a lack of familiarity about the car), a little go on the twisties should also be in order to try out the other aspects. In terms of build quality however it did seem quite good with no creaks or groans or rattles which on an 11year old car is good to see (and the t-tops seemed to be spot on too)
One question is how quick should they pick up in normal driving? Obviously if I stamp on the loud pedal it should take off like a scalded cat, what about 1/2 or 3/4 throttle though - should that also be "hold tight and shut up" or just swift? Handling wise I would expect the Z to be pretty much on the money as a modern(ish) car - or will it be let down by the fact it's just an updating from an 80s design? I know that memory is a fickle mistress - but it does strike me that my old IROC was a little more eager (though obviously as that was my car I drove it more 'enthusiastically')
That aside I've got to try for a longer and more varied drive as it really didn't seem to have the 'urge' I expected (now part of that may well be that I really don't want to rag the s
t out of a car I'm testing together with a lack of familiarity about the car), a little go on the twisties should also be in order to try out the other aspects. In terms of build quality however it did seem quite good with no creaks or groans or rattles which on an 11year old car is good to see (and the t-tops seemed to be spot on too)One question is how quick should they pick up in normal driving? Obviously if I stamp on the loud pedal it should take off like a scalded cat, what about 1/2 or 3/4 throttle though - should that also be "hold tight and shut up" or just swift? Handling wise I would expect the Z to be pretty much on the money as a modern(ish) car - or will it be let down by the fact it's just an updating from an 80s design? I know that memory is a fickle mistress - but it does strike me that my old IROC was a little more eager (though obviously as that was my car I drove it more 'enthusiastically')
Was it auto or manual?
The single large TB on the LS1 is fine, but it maybe doesn’t have the crispest throttle response out there. A ported TB will help here. That said, it’s not really been an issue I’ve seen raised elsewhere since the LS1’s inception in 1997.
The engine is pretty smooth and part throttle it can be deceptive. But shove it all the way down and run it to the red line and it should shift pretty good.
The big difference with the LS1 is it holds its torque better than older SBC’s. It’s PEAK torque is 4400rpm, but it’ll make about 95% of its PEAK at only 1500rpm.
Also if it is auto, remember what I said about kickdown points. With the 2.73:1 gears get it to about 35-37mph and push the loud pedal all the day down hard. It should kickdown to first and in the dry squat hard and head for the horizon. In the wet it’ll likely break traction and spin both rear wheels and hold the spin easily until you hit the red line and possible keep spinning them in 2nd at over 50mph if you aren’t careful.
And if you feel brave enough it might be worth getting up to around 100mph and get it to kick down at that speed using WOT. It should accelerate HARD!
The single large TB on the LS1 is fine, but it maybe doesn’t have the crispest throttle response out there. A ported TB will help here. That said, it’s not really been an issue I’ve seen raised elsewhere since the LS1’s inception in 1997.
The engine is pretty smooth and part throttle it can be deceptive. But shove it all the way down and run it to the red line and it should shift pretty good.
The big difference with the LS1 is it holds its torque better than older SBC’s. It’s PEAK torque is 4400rpm, but it’ll make about 95% of its PEAK at only 1500rpm.
Also if it is auto, remember what I said about kickdown points. With the 2.73:1 gears get it to about 35-37mph and push the loud pedal all the day down hard. It should kickdown to first and in the dry squat hard and head for the horizon. In the wet it’ll likely break traction and spin both rear wheels and hold the spin easily until you hit the red line and possible keep spinning them in 2nd at over 50mph if you aren’t careful.
And if you feel brave enough it might be worth getting up to around 100mph and get it to kick down at that speed using WOT. It should accelerate HARD!
defo not a M6... only auto for me 
I guess that the throttle response is maybe suffering a little since I can't help comparing it to a Lightning I used to own a few years back (which was 'interesting' in the wet) though truth be told I'd have thought that on a power-to-weight basis ratio the 'Maro should feel quicker, maybe that huffer makes it feel a little more 'urgent' ... not too worried about 100mph+ (though it did seem to pull quite nicely from 70-100 - the problem I had was on the dual carriage way the tramlining really didn't inspire too much confidence, something I do remember from my IROC days).
The t-tops looked to be in good nick with no rust at all apparent in the housings, something I remember all too well from the old 3rd gens, in fact not even any moisture I could spot which does bode well for water-tightness.
I can see that washing will be a 'mare though as that spoiler will require a hose and (very) slim, soft brush to clean out underneath it. The hatch glass also looks like it likes to trap detritus as it's not a flush fit with the rest of the tailgate.
I guess that the throttle response is maybe suffering a little since I can't help comparing it to a Lightning I used to own a few years back (which was 'interesting' in the wet) though truth be told I'd have thought that on a power-to-weight basis ratio the 'Maro should feel quicker, maybe that huffer makes it feel a little more 'urgent' ... not too worried about 100mph+ (though it did seem to pull quite nicely from 70-100 - the problem I had was on the dual carriage way the tramlining really didn't inspire too much confidence, something I do remember from my IROC days).
The t-tops looked to be in good nick with no rust at all apparent in the housings, something I remember all too well from the old 3rd gens, in fact not even any moisture I could spot which does bode well for water-tightness.
I can see that washing will be a 'mare though as that spoiler will require a hose and (very) slim, soft brush to clean out underneath it. The hatch glass also looks like it likes to trap detritus as it's not a flush fit with the rest of the tailgate.
American autos will always find the highest gear practicable for the throttle input. You do need to bury the throttle to get the kick in the back. I've had a 3rd gen and it was positively geriatric in comparison. My Z28 ran the quarter in 13.8, my friend's 1990 205hp Z28 auto ran it in 15.3 - thrashing it - that's a lifetime. The two cars weigh about the same as the 4th gen used plastic panels. The 4th gen had the same rear suspension but the front was totally changed to an unequal A-arm set-up.
You may be being misled by the different characteristics - the old engines had lots of low-down torque but ran out of breath at the top and were more eager to chirp the tyres. However, I drag-raced my friend's 250hp Corvette C4 which is lighter than the 4th gen. The cars were about even at the 1/8th mile but then the Camaro just leapt ahead. Best he got all day was 14.0 at 90-odd, the Z was still charging at 105 plus.
T-tops are very good. My C4 Corvette and 3rd gen Z28 leaked a little but the 4th gen was leakproof.
You may be being misled by the different characteristics - the old engines had lots of low-down torque but ran out of breath at the top and were more eager to chirp the tyres. However, I drag-raced my friend's 250hp Corvette C4 which is lighter than the 4th gen. The cars were about even at the 1/8th mile but then the Camaro just leapt ahead. Best he got all day was 14.0 at 90-odd, the Z was still charging at 105 plus.
T-tops are very good. My C4 Corvette and 3rd gen Z28 leaked a little but the 4th gen was leakproof.
Where are the best place to look to buuy/find 4th Gen Camaros? There only seem to be a few ever on here and Google doesn't seem to return much in the way of useful results. Are they mostly specialised companies that don't advertise on the web? Where do all the private sellers hang out?
TEKNOPUG said:
Where are the best place to look to buuy/find 4th Gen Camaros? There only seem to be a few ever on here and Google doesn't seem to return much in the way of useful results. Are they mostly specialised companies that don't advertise on the web? Where do all the private sellers hang out?
They were never big sellers due to GM's ineptitude at marketing them in the UK. Most owners simply kept them. Best source is Classic American magazine or American Car World.http://www.classic-american.com/classifieds.html
http://www.americancarworld.com/classifieds.aspx?d...
TEKNOPUG said:
Thanks, I'll keep my eye on them.
Are the Pontiac versions worth the premium over the Camaros, performance-wise? Or are they just better specced?
The American versions of the Pontiac are better specced than the American Z28s but not the European Z28s. In my experience, there hasn't really been a premium to pay and price tends to relect condition and mileage. after all, extras rarely make a difference to price.Are the Pontiac versions worth the premium over the Camaros, performance-wise? Or are they just better specced?
The earlier 4th gen Pontiacs have a version known as the Formula which is effectively a downgraded Trans-Am with lesser trim and a more pointed nose at the front (which always got very good reviews) but the 1998-on LS1 dispensed with this.
Performance should be the same. if anything, the Pontiac is about 130lbs heavier than the American Z28.
The Pontiac version of the SS is effectively the Trans Am WS6 both of which were fettled in the suspendwerc department by SLP. Both these had 320hp officially in later years at least.
The most desirable is an SLP special called the Firehawk which came with up to 345hp. The Firehawk has been a staple from SLP throughout the 4th gen period with varying power outputs. Given GM's lie about output, it's very difficult to say exactly how much more power the Firehawk really had.
I recommend this book:
http://store.brooklandsbooks.com/product132.html
or this which is more up to date:
http://store.brooklandsbooks.com/product720.html
This is more Trans-Amcentric but I anticipate will repeat a lot of the tests in the Camaro book as they tended to be tested head to head and against the Mustang (whose azz they kicked).
http://store.brooklandsbooks.com/product247.html
Edited by LuS1fer on Wednesday 10th February 14:41
i think as lus1fer says the highway gears make the camaro deceving. My euro A4 with the 2.73 cogs is such a nice car to cruise and picks up well on half throttle, to get the most out of a gear though you'll have to hold it with the box, like hold it in 2nd at say 40 and then put the throttle half down, see what you think. When you hit the go pedal its mental. Mine z runs 13.2 now in the quarter, have suspension, slp lid, and de-muffled exhaust at the mo, so pretty happy. Also in the speed front my pal has a tuned monaro ~360 wheel hp, its a 6 speed manual and pins you back through every gear, but the camaro keeps up and I get through 3 gears for his 5, hence the deceving factor.
With regards to the handeling??? dunno, i couldn't stand mine, I had a bmw 3 series before with -tehc suspension that turned well, the camaro didnt, or rather didnt feel safe doing the same. The shocks, springs and all rear end bits really transformed things.
Also, to the guys looking to buy camaros have a gander on autotrader or ebay. Private sales are the best buys
With regards to the handeling??? dunno, i couldn't stand mine, I had a bmw 3 series before with -tehc suspension that turned well, the camaro didnt, or rather didnt feel safe doing the same. The shocks, springs and all rear end bits really transformed things.
Also, to the guys looking to buy camaros have a gander on autotrader or ebay. Private sales are the best buys
TEKNOPUG said:
Thanks, I'll keep my eye on them.
Are the Pontiac versions worth the premium over the Camaros, performance-wise? Or are they just better specced?
in fairness I do know where there might be a top-notch WS6 TransAm for sale - only problem for me is it's black... not cheap but then the condition is top notch happy to find out if the guy is actually serious about selling it if you like?Are the Pontiac versions worth the premium over the Camaros, performance-wise? Or are they just better specced?
Z28fan said:
TEKNOPUG said:
Thanks, I'll keep my eye on them.
Are the Pontiac versions worth the premium over the Camaros, performance-wise? Or are they just better specced?
in fairness I do know where there might be a top-notch WS6 TransAm for sale - only problem for me is it's black... not cheap but then the condition is top notch happy to find out if the guy is actually serious about selling it if you like?Are the Pontiac versions worth the premium over the Camaros, performance-wise? Or are they just better specced?
Edited by TEKNOPUG on Wednesday 10th February 13:32
TEKNOPUG said:
Z28fan said:
lol - I'll fight you for the right one <grin>... let's just hope we don't have the same colour tastes and transmission requirements
I just want a manual, not really fussed about colour or whether it a T-Top.There is or was one on eBay for about £5800 I think. Base model coupe so good for lower weight. For some odd reason manuals are very rare in the UK. Much more so than in the US.
300bhp/ton said:
TEKNOPUG said:
Z28fan said:
lol - I'll fight you for the right one <grin>... let's just hope we don't have the same colour tastes and transmission requirements
I just want a manual, not really fussed about colour or whether it a T-Top.There is or was one on eBay for about £5800 I think. Base model coupe so good for lower weight. For some odd reason manuals are very rare in the UK. Much more so than in the US.
TEKNOPUG said:
300bhp/ton said:
TEKNOPUG said:
Z28fan said:
lol - I'll fight you for the right one <grin>... let's just hope we don't have the same colour tastes and transmission requirements
I just want a manual, not really fussed about colour or whether it a T-Top.There is or was one on eBay for about £5800 I think. Base model coupe so good for lower weight. For some odd reason manuals are very rare in the UK. Much more so than in the US.
I was tempted by the one on ebay myself, just couldn't realistically sort out about selling mine in time to buy that one.
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