Your thoughts on fake watches
Discussion
Countdown said:
I don't disagree with that. However why should that upset the owner of a genuine Rolex or in any way reduce their enjoyment of their own genuine article?
Say you own a genuine painting by Da Vinci, or Constable, or Turner. Would your enjoyment be lessened by the fact that there are a million repro prints in circulation? What about if you had a Faberge egg and somebody else had the cadbury's creme version? How would that impact on how you take enjoyment from your genuine article?
Who are all these mythical people gnashing their teeth and wailing over Keith in account's fake Submariner? We've already established that none of us can tell if it's fake or not anyway. Say you own a genuine painting by Da Vinci, or Constable, or Turner. Would your enjoyment be lessened by the fact that there are a million repro prints in circulation? What about if you had a Faberge egg and somebody else had the cadbury's creme version? How would that impact on how you take enjoyment from your genuine article?
I'm simply saying that Keith is quite keen on the Rolex brand, the image it projects when he's in the Gardeners Arms at lunch, or at the golf club on a Saturday. I think he's sad. I also dispute that anyone who buys a real Submariner is a mug. Keith wouldn't want his fake if real ones weren't produced and sold in sufficient numbers.
sidicks said:
TiggerBits said:
True. I wonder how many Rolex owners actually know the first thing about watches ?
Plenty will, plenty won’t. What’s your point?Francois de La Rochefoucauld said:
Who are all these mythical people gnashing their teeth and wailing over Keith in account's fake Submariner? We've already established that none of us can tell if it's fake or not anyway.
I'm simply saying that Keith is quite keen on the Rolex brand, the image it projects when he's in the Gardeners Arms at lunch, or at the golf club on a Saturday. I think he's sad.
Just to make sure, why is he sad?I'm simply saying that Keith is quite keen on the Rolex brand, the image it projects when he's in the Gardeners Arms at lunch, or at the golf club on a Saturday. I think he's sad.
Becausue he wants his lunch buddies to see he's well off or because he's pretending he's well off?
PS: I don't like fakes either, just asking the question because I think he's sad because of both reasons, but the first one more so than the second one.
So buying a real one wouldn't make him less sad.
Edited by ZesPak on Monday 30th April 13:44
Francois de La Rochefoucauld said:
I'm simply saying that Keith is quite keen on the Rolex brand, the image it projects when he's in the Gardeners Arms at lunch, or at the golf club on a Saturday. I think he's sad.
There you go again about image. If thats why you (or anyone) buy something its pretty sad. Countdown said:
I don't disagree with that. However why should that upset the owner of a genuine Rolex or in any way reduce their enjoyment of their own genuine article?
Say you own a genuine painting by Da Vinci, or Constable, or Turner. Would your enjoyment be lessened by the fact that there are a million repro prints in circulation? What about if you had a Faberge egg and somebody else had the cadbury's creme version? How would that impact on how you take enjoyment from your genuine article?
That's not the only issue with this thread though is it? It's the OPs insistence constantly on all his threads that the cheaper copies are just as good as the real deal and that his insistence that everyone who purchases the real deal are getting ripped off. Snobbery really goes 2 ways. The value at which he prices things are also very hazy and he doesn't seem to grasp the real costs once you factor in all the intangible factors.Say you own a genuine painting by Da Vinci, or Constable, or Turner. Would your enjoyment be lessened by the fact that there are a million repro prints in circulation? What about if you had a Faberge egg and somebody else had the cadbury's creme version? How would that impact on how you take enjoyment from your genuine article?
One of my favourite watches I own is a orient ray which I bought to curb a divers itch. Surely that would be the sensible thing to do other than buy a fake?
Art is a different matter though as they are genuinely 1 of a kind and there is zero supply unless getting a reprint.
EddieSteadyGo said:
I don't want to be rude, but just because you can't see the harm being done doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Have a read of some of these links from the United Nations and Europol relating to the serious issues caused by counterfeit goods (including fake watches).
https://www.unodc.org/documents/counterfeit/FocusS...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/fake-d...
https://www.europol.europa.eu/crime-areas-and-tren...
I covered that in my post. Have a read of some of these links from the United Nations and Europol relating to the serious issues caused by counterfeit goods (including fake watches).
https://www.unodc.org/documents/counterfeit/FocusS...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/fake-d...
https://www.europol.europa.eu/crime-areas-and-tren...
Those links all deal with counterfeit goods being sold as genuine and I agree thats not a good thing and there is harm in that.
None of those links deal with what i was mentioning - a copy being sold as a copy and all being aware of it. In that situation what harm is there, especially as the purchaser is unlikely to buy the real thing anyway and if they do then the original manufacturer may have picked up a sale they would not otherwise have had?
The best option is to buy a watch that's hard to fake ... 
Any watch with high levels of finishing, openworked dials or target a niche market will either means next-to-zero available fakes, or so obviously fake that you wouldn't get stung if someone tried to sell it to you at a bargain price!
I think every other point has been covered, so I'll just leave it at that!
Any watch with high levels of finishing, openworked dials or target a niche market will either means next-to-zero available fakes, or so obviously fake that you wouldn't get stung if someone tried to sell it to you at a bargain price!I think every other point has been covered, so I'll just leave it at that!
lostkiwi said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
I don't want to be rude, but just because you can't see the harm being done doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Have a read of some of these links from the United Nations and Europol relating to the serious issues caused by counterfeit goods (including fake watches).
https://www.unodc.org/documents/counterfeit/FocusS...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/fake-d...
https://www.europol.europa.eu/crime-areas-and-tren...
I covered that in my post. Have a read of some of these links from the United Nations and Europol relating to the serious issues caused by counterfeit goods (including fake watches).
https://www.unodc.org/documents/counterfeit/FocusS...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/fake-d...
https://www.europol.europa.eu/crime-areas-and-tren...
Those links all deal with counterfeit goods being sold as genuine and I agree thats not a good thing and there is harm in that.
None of those links deal with what i was mentioning - a copy being sold as a copy and all being aware of it. In that situation what harm is there, especially as the purchaser is unlikely to buy the real thing anyway and if they do then the original manufacturer may have picked up a sale they would not otherwise have had?
I can see there is a difference if you are referring soley to watches marked clearly as "Didun" or whatever they might be called as these can't be passed off as the genuine article. In that case, I would agree the arguments are different.
ZesPak said:
Just to make sure, why is he sad?
Becausue he wants his lunch buddies to see he's well off or because he's pretending he's well off?
PS: I don't like fakes either, just asking the question because I think he's sad because of both reasons, but the first one more so than the second one.
So buying a real one wouldn't make him less sad.
Who knows why someone spends £5k+ on a steel uncomplicated watch, you could ask, but you could never be sure they were telling the truth. Becausue he wants his lunch buddies to see he's well off or because he's pretending he's well off?
PS: I don't like fakes either, just asking the question because I think he's sad because of both reasons, but the first one more so than the second one.
So buying a real one wouldn't make him less sad.
Edited by ZesPak on Monday 30th April 13:44
However, going back to Keith, we know for certain why he's bought a fake Rolex, and it isn't because he 'likes the design'.
Francois de La Rochefoucauld said:
Who knows why someone spends £5k+ on a steel uncomplicated watch, you could ask, but you could never be sure they were telling the truth.
However, going back to Keith, we know for certain why he's bought a fake Rolex, and it isn't because he 'likes the design'.
Agree to disagree then.However, going back to Keith, we know for certain why he's bought a fake Rolex, and it isn't because he 'likes the design'.
Jayho said:
That's not the only issue with this thread though is it? It's the OPs insistence constantly on all his threads that the cheaper copies are just as good as the real deal and that his insistence that everyone who purchases the real deal are getting ripped off. Snobbery really goes 2 ways. The value at which he prices things are also very hazy and he doesn't seem to grasp the real costs once you factor in all the intangible factors.
One of my favourite watches I own is a orient ray which I bought to curb a divers itch. Surely that would be the sensible thing to do other than buy a fake?
Art is a different matter though as they are genuinely 1 of a kind and there is zero supply unless getting a reprint.
Rubbish, rubbish rubbish. At no point have I ever said a cheap homage is as good as the real thing, and I never would. Yes, I do believe that people who pay thousands of pounds for a watch are getting ripped off, but I appreciate that it is their choice. My argument has always been about value for money. A watch that is 10 times as good as another, shouldn't cost 100 times as much. One of my favourite watches I own is a orient ray which I bought to curb a divers itch. Surely that would be the sensible thing to do other than buy a fake?
Art is a different matter though as they are genuinely 1 of a kind and there is zero supply unless getting a reprint.
TiggerBits said:
The point is that some people buy luxury watches because they love the quality and attention to detail, whilst others buy them for image. The latter are sad people, but that's just my opinion
I agree 100%.I also think that people that buy cheap copies of luxury watches, purely for their (fake) image, are sad people. Particularly when they try to justify the purchases using flawed logic.
Francois de La Rochefoucauld said:
Who are all these mythical people gnashing their teeth and wailing over Keith in account's fake Submariner? We've already established that none of us can tell if it's fake or not anyway.
There were (or certainly appeared to me) various people earlier in the thread who seemed quite upset/annoyed about people who bought fakes. Francois de La Rochefoucauld said:
I'm simply saying that Keith is quite keen on the Rolex brand, the image it projects when he's in the Gardeners Arms at lunch, or at the golf club on a Saturday. I think he's sad.
I agree that it's sad if it's the "brand" that he's buying into but that applies to any buyer, fake or genune. So it doesn't matter if it's a fake or a genuine watch, anybody flaunting it, hoping for admiration and free sex, is sad. You buy it for the pleasure it gives you from owning it and that pleasure shouldn't be any lesser or any greater if everybody in the known universe has a fake strapped to their arm. Or if you're marooned on a desert island where nobody knows what a "Row-Lecks" is.Francois de La Rochefoucauld said:
I also dispute that anyone who buys a real Submariner is a mug.
I completely agree.Francois de La Rochefoucauld said:
Keith wouldn't want his fake if real ones weren't produced and sold in sufficient numbers.
Correct, if Keith is the kind of to55er who buys a watch just for bragging rights. equally you could argue that a to55er wouldn't buy a genuine Rolex either if no bragging rights were attached.Francois de La Rochefoucauld said:
I'm simply saying that Keith is quite keen on the Rolex brand, the image it projects when he's in the Gardeners Arms at lunch, or at the golf club on a Saturday. I think he's sad.
Countdown said:
I agree that it's sad if it's the "brand" that he's buying into but that applies to any buyer, fake or genune. So it doesn't matter if it's a fake or a genuine watch, anybody flaunting it, hoping for admiration and free sex, is sad. You buy it for the pleasure it gives you from owning it and that pleasure shouldn't be any lesser or any greater if everybody in the known universe has a fake strapped to their arm. Or if you're marooned on a desert island where nobody knows what a "Row-Lecks" is.
I disagree. I think it's perfectly unobjectionable to buy into, and even love a brand and consider it as part of a buying/ownership decision. Look at Apple or Ferrari, their fans are legion and a great deal of them are emotionally invested in their brand and products. These companies have spent decades and billions of dollars producing brilliant and desirable products for consumers to aspire to own and use. Is it any wonder they are vociferous in protecting their IP/trademarks? Part of the pleasure of owning a luxury brand (and that's really what this discussion has been about) is knowing it's the genuine article. Edited by Francois de La Rochefoucauld on Monday 30th April 15:27
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