Near misses - the thread of self control
Discussion
If you're like me you spend a fair bit of time looking at 'for sale' fora, Chrono24, ebay and when really desperate even etsy. Maybe you went to the highstreet & tried something on.
Sometimes there are watches you almost buy. They're in budget, you can afford 'em, you want to own them, but for some reason you don't open your wallet.
Post them here so we can see what you turned down & why.
Here are two from this weekend to kick the thread off:
This Le Coultre Club fits my general theme of collecting 60's & 70's watches. I'm a bit of a fan of JLC too. It was on ebay and went for £576. I didn't bid.
It's a 'Club', so it has an Adolph Schild (AS) movement rather than a JLC in house one. It's gorgeous, but not as gorgeous as a non Club watch.
Another ebay watch. The Longines ultronic range are hummers, this one has the ETA 9162. It looks pretty mint.
I was sorely tempted earlier this year by one of these that Jarrett Harkness was selling at Unwindintime. I think it was $800 + shipping from the States + VAT. This one went for a bargain basement £217.
The reason I didn't buy, well I had a watch delivered on Sunday. Ordering another one on Sunday night would not have exactly contributed to marital bliss. I think I would have been sleeping in the shed for a while and currently my shed doesn't have a roof, or walls, or even a concrete base!
What have you recently seen, desired and failed to buy?
EDIT: Looks like ebay have blocked direct links to their photos. Post edited to reinsert pics.
Sometimes there are watches you almost buy. They're in budget, you can afford 'em, you want to own them, but for some reason you don't open your wallet.
Post them here so we can see what you turned down & why.
Here are two from this weekend to kick the thread off:
This Le Coultre Club fits my general theme of collecting 60's & 70's watches. I'm a bit of a fan of JLC too. It was on ebay and went for £576. I didn't bid.
It's a 'Club', so it has an Adolph Schild (AS) movement rather than a JLC in house one. It's gorgeous, but not as gorgeous as a non Club watch.
Another ebay watch. The Longines ultronic range are hummers, this one has the ETA 9162. It looks pretty mint.
I was sorely tempted earlier this year by one of these that Jarrett Harkness was selling at Unwindintime. I think it was $800 + shipping from the States + VAT. This one went for a bargain basement £217.
The reason I didn't buy, well I had a watch delivered on Sunday. Ordering another one on Sunday night would not have exactly contributed to marital bliss. I think I would have been sleeping in the shed for a while and currently my shed doesn't have a roof, or walls, or even a concrete base!
What have you recently seen, desired and failed to buy?
EDIT: Looks like ebay have blocked direct links to their photos. Post edited to reinsert pics.
Edited by BrokenSkunk on Friday 21st October 15:07
smokey mow said:
This 1962 Omega caught my eye on eBay a couple of months ago. I was bidding but for a combination of reasons missed out and have regretted it since.
Yes it’s got the wrong strap and hands but I liked the classic style and it would have made a good every day watch.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Yes it’s got the wrong strap and hands but I liked the classic style and it would have made a good every day watch.
The dial is also wrong. Really, badly Mumbai monster wrong. The crown doesn't look right either. Aesthetically it's not ugly, I'll give you that, it is well photographed, but it screams Bombay bodge job. I suspect that the movement will have been knackered, probably cobbled together from multiple non runners.
I'm really not trying to widdle on your roaring inferno, but that's a shocker. I think you had a narrow escape. In the spirit of making sure you don't nearly make the same mistake again, send me a link to it on ebay and I'll give some pointers of what to look for.
On the other hand you may already know all that & I'm just being anal about the watch not being original! Annecdotally I have heard that some of the Bombay specials do actually keep ticking beyond the first week. No idea what their timekeeping is like though"
redrabbit said:
I have to hand it to you, you have exquisite taste in watches. Gems like this that fly under the radar are the mark of a true enthusiast. Keep it stealthy!
Oh...and buy that one, or I just might...
Why thank you Mr Rabbit. That's extremely generous.Oh...and buy that one, or I just might...
I seek these out partly because of necessity. The price of modern watches is higher than this forgotten vintage stuff. I try to keep this collecting malarky at a fairly low spend level, my monthly average spend is about the same as a tank of petrol. All things are relative & I'm lucky to be able to waste even that much. If I were buying new, or used modern that would get me one decent watch every year instead of *cough* several.
The other part is because this old stuff is so cool.
Knock yourself out on this one (I think it's over priced by a couple of hundred UKP and the VAT will be a killer.):
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274559786496
Be aware, it has a tuning fork movement. Getting it serviced will be a nightmare.
Smokey has sent me the link to the ebay listing for this watch. I won't post it here as that would breah PH's name and shame rules.
OK, Let me start by saying I'm not an Omega expert.
There's quite a lot missing from the listing. There are no photographs of the caseback or the movement. I'll come to why that's important in a minute (or ten, this is a long post). But let's look at what is there.
This is about the best image of the watch. What's wrong with it?
1/ Hands are wrong. Smokey knew this already. Mercedes hands do not belong on a dress watch.
2/ "Deluxe" on the dial. I was once told that any watch stating Deluxe on the dial isn't. I've never seen this on an original Omega.
3/ "Omega" Even I can tell the font is wrong. I couldn't tell you exactly why, but it looks off.
4/ Quality of the dial printing. Easiest seen on "SW ISS MADE" The edges of the lettering are awful, they should be clean and crisp. Not blurred like these.
5/ Number "6" is wonky.
6/ It has a fresh looking black dial. Always be suspiscious of strong dark dial colours, they're great for hiding the grotty old original dial paint.
7/ "No. 529" Omega do not place theirmodel case reference numer on the dial. Ever.
8/ "12" doesn't look centrally placed with respect to the minute markers either side or the cross hairs.
9/ Lume colour on the dial looks to me like it matches the lume on those obviously replaced hands (but I'm really colourblind). We know the hands shouldn't be there, so we'd expect the lume ont he hands not to match the dial lume.
Things that are OK with this dial:
10/ Lume dots. Usually hand painted on redials, the placement accuracy and repeatability of size are often a dead giveaway. These are OK.
11/ Crosshairs look nicely lined up with the centre of the dial.
OK, now let's look at the seller's text. There's a lot of verbiage, but he does tell us some useful things. He tells us that the case refernce is 208.529, the movement is a Omega 286, the case is 9ct solid gold & the serial number dates the watch to 1962.
Let's decode the case reference. This is usually stamped inside the caseback by the way.
Relevant information is here: https://c1861.blogspot.com/2011/08/omega-case-refe... Assuming the website's accurate...
2 - Leather strap
0 - Manual winding (not automatic)
8 - Chronometer grade movement
Oooh, chronometer grade. You'd think the seller would mention that. It's a big selling point.
The 529 in 208.529 is the model number. OK, let's check the Omega database and see what it should look like:
https://www.omegawatches.com/vintage-watches
Nope, I can't find a 208.529 using the search, but no matter the database isn't complete or 100% accurate.
Searching for 208 brings up 5 watches, 529 just two. Nothing matches.
Let's search by caliber number instead. There are multiple options: "284/85/86", "285/286" & "286" they all have to be checked individually... Nothing matches.
Right last chance. Search by movement type.
Manual winding - 11 watches, nothing matches.
Manual winding (mechanical) - 712 watches nothing matches.
Manual winfing (chronometer) - 5 watches, nothing matches.
There are lots of gaps in the database, so this isn't conclusive. I tried to spot a dial with these exact hourmarkers and numerals, I couldn't find one. There very likely is an Omega dial under that nasty paint.
This watch is solid gold, so we don't need to worry about brassing. Brassing is where the gold plate wears off to show the brass underneath, usually on the lugs. Be very wary of pictures that don't clearly show a lack of brassing on plated watches. Not a problem here.
The lack of any visible scratches & crisp edges on the case do tell us that it's been polished. You may or may not care, to a collector this devalues the watch.
For fun, let's look up the movement. It would be a useful check if the seller had posted a picture.
http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&...
286 does have a breguet hairspring, so that ties with the watch being chronometer grade. Dr. Roland Ranfft think's it was manufactured from 1963 to 1966 though, not 1962 as this watch claims to be. Ranfft could be wrong, movement caliber and serial number are both stamped on the base plate. A picture would have told us.
Last checks for this watch:
Picture of the inside caseback. Missing. This should show Omega reference number & will often have marks scratched in by a watchmaker each time it was serviced.
Picture of the watch back. Missing. Assume that's because the watch has a personal inscription that the seller has 'forgotten' to mention.
Picture of the movement. Missing.
Here we'd be looking for a even colour on all the gold coloured parts. If you spot a bridge that's a different colour it means it's from a donor movement. Immediately you should be suspiscious that the movement has been bodged together from several non runners.
Look at the steel parts for evidence of rust. Reject the watch if you see any.
Look at the screws, are they clean, or have they been mullered by an ape wielding a chisel? Some witness marks from the careful use of a screwdriver is fine - tells you that the watch has been serviced. Chewed screw heads tell you who by.
[edit]Is the regulator hard against the stops (watch desperately needs a service, or nicely half way between Fast and Slow?
Is the anti-shock spring on the balance staff missing?
Are there missing screws? Do all the screws match?[end edit]
Look at the case / caseback seal. Youre looking for corrosion, caused by sweat. There won't be any on this 9ct gold watch.
These two pictures are absolutely essential. My advice is (almost) never buy without seeing them. The exception is for front loaders (e.g. Omega Dynamic / Cosmic). On these watches to get to the movement, you need to remove the crystal. The seller may not have the tools.
And finally, think holistically. Does the whole package match? Terrible corrosion around the caseback seal, dial damage and rust on the movement? It's knackered, but it's honest. But if you see the corrosion and a perfect dial, you know it's been tarted up for sale.
I said last checks. There is one more thing to do. It's an ebay seller. Let's look at his other items and see how honest looking they are. Is the guy a collector selling up, or a serial bodger...
OK, Let me start by saying I'm not an Omega expert.
There's quite a lot missing from the listing. There are no photographs of the caseback or the movement. I'll come to why that's important in a minute (or ten, this is a long post). But let's look at what is there.
This is about the best image of the watch. What's wrong with it?
1/ Hands are wrong. Smokey knew this already. Mercedes hands do not belong on a dress watch.
2/ "Deluxe" on the dial. I was once told that any watch stating Deluxe on the dial isn't. I've never seen this on an original Omega.
3/ "Omega" Even I can tell the font is wrong. I couldn't tell you exactly why, but it looks off.
4/ Quality of the dial printing. Easiest seen on "SW ISS MADE" The edges of the lettering are awful, they should be clean and crisp. Not blurred like these.
5/ Number "6" is wonky.
6/ It has a fresh looking black dial. Always be suspiscious of strong dark dial colours, they're great for hiding the grotty old original dial paint.
7/ "No. 529" Omega do not place their
8/ "12" doesn't look centrally placed with respect to the minute markers either side or the cross hairs.
9/ Lume colour on the dial looks to me like it matches the lume on those obviously replaced hands (but I'm really colourblind). We know the hands shouldn't be there, so we'd expect the lume ont he hands not to match the dial lume.
Things that are OK with this dial:
10/ Lume dots. Usually hand painted on redials, the placement accuracy and repeatability of size are often a dead giveaway. These are OK.
11/ Crosshairs look nicely lined up with the centre of the dial.
OK, now let's look at the seller's text. There's a lot of verbiage, but he does tell us some useful things. He tells us that the case refernce is 208.529, the movement is a Omega 286, the case is 9ct solid gold & the serial number dates the watch to 1962.
Let's decode the case reference. This is usually stamped inside the caseback by the way.
Relevant information is here: https://c1861.blogspot.com/2011/08/omega-case-refe... Assuming the website's accurate...
2 - Leather strap
0 - Manual winding (not automatic)
8 - Chronometer grade movement
Oooh, chronometer grade. You'd think the seller would mention that. It's a big selling point.
The 529 in 208.529 is the model number. OK, let's check the Omega database and see what it should look like:
https://www.omegawatches.com/vintage-watches
Nope, I can't find a 208.529 using the search, but no matter the database isn't complete or 100% accurate.
Searching for 208 brings up 5 watches, 529 just two. Nothing matches.
Let's search by caliber number instead. There are multiple options: "284/85/86", "285/286" & "286" they all have to be checked individually... Nothing matches.
Right last chance. Search by movement type.
Manual winding - 11 watches, nothing matches.
Manual winding (mechanical) - 712 watches nothing matches.
Manual winfing (chronometer) - 5 watches, nothing matches.
There are lots of gaps in the database, so this isn't conclusive. I tried to spot a dial with these exact hourmarkers and numerals, I couldn't find one. There very likely is an Omega dial under that nasty paint.
This watch is solid gold, so we don't need to worry about brassing. Brassing is where the gold plate wears off to show the brass underneath, usually on the lugs. Be very wary of pictures that don't clearly show a lack of brassing on plated watches. Not a problem here.
The lack of any visible scratches & crisp edges on the case do tell us that it's been polished. You may or may not care, to a collector this devalues the watch.
For fun, let's look up the movement. It would be a useful check if the seller had posted a picture.
http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&...
286 does have a breguet hairspring, so that ties with the watch being chronometer grade. Dr. Roland Ranfft think's it was manufactured from 1963 to 1966 though, not 1962 as this watch claims to be. Ranfft could be wrong, movement caliber and serial number are both stamped on the base plate. A picture would have told us.
Last checks for this watch:
Picture of the inside caseback. Missing. This should show Omega reference number & will often have marks scratched in by a watchmaker each time it was serviced.
Picture of the watch back. Missing. Assume that's because the watch has a personal inscription that the seller has 'forgotten' to mention.
Picture of the movement. Missing.
Here we'd be looking for a even colour on all the gold coloured parts. If you spot a bridge that's a different colour it means it's from a donor movement. Immediately you should be suspiscious that the movement has been bodged together from several non runners.
Look at the steel parts for evidence of rust. Reject the watch if you see any.
Look at the screws, are they clean, or have they been mullered by an ape wielding a chisel? Some witness marks from the careful use of a screwdriver is fine - tells you that the watch has been serviced. Chewed screw heads tell you who by.
[edit]Is the regulator hard against the stops (watch desperately needs a service, or nicely half way between Fast and Slow?
Is the anti-shock spring on the balance staff missing?
Are there missing screws? Do all the screws match?[end edit]
Look at the case / caseback seal. Youre looking for corrosion, caused by sweat. There won't be any on this 9ct gold watch.
These two pictures are absolutely essential. My advice is (almost) never buy without seeing them. The exception is for front loaders (e.g. Omega Dynamic / Cosmic). On these watches to get to the movement, you need to remove the crystal. The seller may not have the tools.
And finally, think holistically. Does the whole package match? Terrible corrosion around the caseback seal, dial damage and rust on the movement? It's knackered, but it's honest. But if you see the corrosion and a perfect dial, you know it's been tarted up for sale.
I said last checks. There is one more thing to do. It's an ebay seller. Let's look at his other items and see how honest looking they are. Is the guy a collector selling up, or a serial bodger...
Edited by BrokenSkunk on Friday 12th August 13:01
Edited by BrokenSkunk on Friday 12th August 17:24
Edited by BrokenSkunk on Friday 21st October 15:13
romeodelta said:
Fair enough, they do look crap in photos (especially this beat up one).
In the, erm, Breitlight, the case has a kind of depth and texture to it and the crystal has a tinge of blue.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not one to intentionally widdle on a chaps roaring inferno, I'm chuffed that you're chuffed.In the, erm, Breitlight, the case has a kind of depth and texture to it and the crystal has a tinge of blue.
I don't like baked beans either, plenty of people do & I don't understand why. But hey, if it works for them... And lets face it, if they stopped buying the devils food, and started buying pickled chillies, the pickled chilli shelf would soon empty, the pickled chilli price would skyrocket and I would be sad.
I genuinely don't drink tea either.
More near misses from today's bored browsing...
Firstly something from Pierre Cardin's early 70's Espace range:
This one is difficult to find in this good a condition. The Espace range is fun, but really they're rubbish horologically, despite the badged Jaeger movement.
This seller is asking $450 USD, about £400 + 20% import duty + shipping, it's about £500. Too much, that would buy something nicer by Omega or Longines. The seller is also in Buenos Aries. It's not that I'm holding the Fauklands thing against the Argentinians (although we are holding the Fauklands against them
), more that I avoid buying watches from anywhere with a hot and steamy climate.
Another one that caught my fancy is this BWC:
Its definitely whispering to me, but it's not hollering.
Firstly something from Pierre Cardin's early 70's Espace range:
This one is difficult to find in this good a condition. The Espace range is fun, but really they're rubbish horologically, despite the badged Jaeger movement.
This seller is asking $450 USD, about £400 + 20% import duty + shipping, it's about £500. Too much, that would buy something nicer by Omega or Longines. The seller is also in Buenos Aries. It's not that I'm holding the Fauklands thing against the Argentinians (although we are holding the Fauklands against them
), more that I avoid buying watches from anywhere with a hot and steamy climate.Another one that caught my fancy is this BWC:
Its definitely whispering to me, but it's not hollering.
Edited by BrokenSkunk on Friday 21st October 15:15
Portofino said:
Was a lovely thing indeed. Just couldn’t justify the price right now. Enjoy your Day & Night!
In your pic I could just make out that the first digit of the proce was a 1, "can't be right" I thought, so I checked the WOS website. 
Yeah, I'd struggle to spend that much on any watch. Mine was 2nd hand via C24, I did get it about six years ago, but it was less than a third of that price.
I made an offer on this and the seller accepted.
It's a Nautilus from the late 50's early 60's and has the notoriously unreliable 505 electric movement. Sadly the seller got straight back in touch to say it's not keeping time. Whilst my local watchmaker will service these, there are only two watchmakers in the world who can repair them - no one has the parts anymore.
So, for the moment this is a near miss, although the seller has promised to get back in touch when it's going properly.
EDIT.
An update on marital bliss and the potential for watch purchasing based eviction: My shed now has a concrete base and concrete block 2' stub walls, but no woodwork or roof. It is filling nicely with water.
It's a Nautilus from the late 50's early 60's and has the notoriously unreliable 505 electric movement. Sadly the seller got straight back in touch to say it's not keeping time. Whilst my local watchmaker will service these, there are only two watchmakers in the world who can repair them - no one has the parts anymore.
So, for the moment this is a near miss, although the seller has promised to get back in touch when it's going properly.
EDIT.
An update on marital bliss and the potential for watch purchasing based eviction: My shed now has a concrete base and concrete block 2' stub walls, but no woodwork or roof. It is filling nicely with water.
Edited by BrokenSkunk on Friday 21st October 15:28
More self control required. This is up for an asking proce of 360 EUR + shipping. Plus VAT too as it would be an import. It's 38mm with 18mm lugs, a perfect size for a vintage watch.
My head says buy it, I can't find a logical reason not to. It fits my collecting theme, 60s / 70s, perfect dial, a wee bit different, within budget. But my heart hasn't quite caught up with my head.
My head says buy it, I can't find a logical reason not to. It fits my collecting theme, 60s / 70s, perfect dial, a wee bit different, within budget. But my heart hasn't quite caught up with my head.
More near misses from me. These are absolute bargains, gorgeous and right up my street. I can't really explain why they're 'near misse's & not 'incoming'.
This 1972 Bulova has a rather lovely patina on it's original dial. Sadly it needs attention, the watch stops around midnight as the date changes over. But then the sell is only asking 85 Euros. I am sorely tempted, if it didn't have issues I would have bought it immediately.
On the other hand there is nothing wrong with this Anfibio. It looks rather minty, for 80 Euros it's a steal. But somehow this one just isn't rocking my boat.
This 1972 Bulova has a rather lovely patina on it's original dial. Sadly it needs attention, the watch stops around midnight as the date changes over. But then the sell is only asking 85 Euros. I am sorely tempted, if it didn't have issues I would have bought it immediately.
On the other hand there is nothing wrong with this Anfibio. It looks rather minty, for 80 Euros it's a steal. But somehow this one just isn't rocking my boat.
The risk is not of losing the watch. As with cars if you can't afford to insure it, you can't afford to own it. The risk is of bodily harm should anyone try to steal it.
Frankly if you're sensible the risk is nearly zero. But if you're wearing it as a daily, in a T-Shirt and visiting watch shops in central London, then yeah you could wind up being targetted.
I would not let watch robberies stop me from buying something I wanted. But I would be careful about when, where and how that watch was worn. Nothing has recently changed in that respect really.
Frankly if you're sensible the risk is nearly zero. But if you're wearing it as a daily, in a T-Shirt and visiting watch shops in central London, then yeah you could wind up being targetted.
I would not let watch robberies stop me from buying something I wanted. But I would be careful about when, where and how that watch was worn. Nothing has recently changed in that respect really.
I tried, I really did. To buy it that is, not to resist!
This was was up for auction at Fellows this morning with an estimate of £400-600. A few frantic seconds after the lot opened I had the highest bid of £1100, the highest I was prepared to go. The auctioneer paused for 15 seconds or so and some rotten sod bid £1200.
The next bid increment was £1300, there's a 30% buyers fee on top of the hammer price, so that would have made it £1690 all in. Too pricy for what it is.
So I guess this is a tale of self control. I set a bid limit and I stuck to it and I still don't have a Ventura.
This one hurts:
It was for sale at £400 + shipping ot the UK. I wanted it as soon as I saw it. I can afford it and it's reasonably priced.
I had to resist as I'm planning to spend a bit more on something else very soon. The frustrating thing is the auction for the "something else" will end shortly and I've no idea if I'll be outbid. Yeah I could afford both, but that would be a bit extravagant and would definitely lead to sleeping in the shed, which still doesn't have a roof.
I hoped to buy the Zenith at the weekend if I failed to obtain my "something else", but predictably the Zenith has already sold.
Here's the latest shed picture:
Since that was taken I've completed the walls and finished putting the joists in. It still has no roof or door and I still have to shift 1/2" of water out of it every time I go out to work on it.
It was for sale at £400 + shipping ot the UK. I wanted it as soon as I saw it. I can afford it and it's reasonably priced.
I had to resist as I'm planning to spend a bit more on something else very soon. The frustrating thing is the auction for the "something else" will end shortly and I've no idea if I'll be outbid. Yeah I could afford both, but that would be a bit extravagant and would definitely lead to sleeping in the shed, which still doesn't have a roof.
I hoped to buy the Zenith at the weekend if I failed to obtain my "something else", but predictably the Zenith has already sold.
Here's the latest shed picture:
Since that was taken I've completed the walls and finished putting the joists in. It still has no roof or door and I still have to shift 1/2" of water out of it every time I go out to work on it.
Here's two more from ebay that almost made it into the collection:
Hummm: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195648994716
This 1968 Bulova is very nice. And it's currently only £59, which would be an absolute bargain for a working hummer.
Reason for not buying: I already have three hummers (two tuning forks and one quartz).
It's really nice, I just don't need it. If anyone is looking for a tuning fork watch, or a birth year watch for a 55 year old, its ideal. Apart from the fact Croydon watches are about the only people left in the UK who'll service it.
Next up, this beauty: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334784425497
Named after arch-villian Largo's yaucht this Zenith is a corker. At £450 it's priced about right. And a Disco Volante (yes I do know what it means) is high on my "must own list". This one is in good condition, no noticable patina on what looks to be an original dial. Even the graining on the case is in good shape.
Reason for not buying: I want the dark faced version.
Hummm: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195648994716
This 1968 Bulova is very nice. And it's currently only £59, which would be an absolute bargain for a working hummer.
Reason for not buying: I already have three hummers (two tuning forks and one quartz).
It's really nice, I just don't need it. If anyone is looking for a tuning fork watch, or a birth year watch for a 55 year old, its ideal. Apart from the fact Croydon watches are about the only people left in the UK who'll service it.
Next up, this beauty: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334784425497
Named after arch-villian Largo's yaucht this Zenith is a corker. At £450 it's priced about right. And a Disco Volante (yes I do know what it means) is high on my "must own list". This one is in good condition, no noticable patina on what looks to be an original dial. Even the graining on the case is in good shape.
Reason for not buying: I want the dark faced version.
RobbieTheTruth said:
smokey mow said:
This 1962 Omega caught my eye on eBay a couple of months ago. I was bidding but for a combination of reasons missed out and have regretted it since.
Yes it’s got the wrong strap and hands but I liked the classic style and it would have made a good every day watch.
I love this, what's it called?Yes it’s got the wrong strap and hands but I liked the classic style and it would have made a good every day watch.
Omega Deluxe doesn't bring up the results i expected
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