Sinn vs IWC (was Replica Watches)
Discussion
Bit of a detour here and an interesting topic has started on the Rep thread so I thought I'd branch out here. The similarity of Sinn with IWC was pointed out…
"In 1994, Helmut Sinn sold the company to Lothar Schmidt, who constructed watches in the Porsche-Design Team in the 1970s and later on was authorized officer of the IWC. Among other things, Schmidt designed watch cases made from titanium for the IWC and after 1990 he was responsible for the rebuilding of the IWC brand A. Lange & Söhne."The DNA is there for all to see. I have both a Sinn and an IWC (both genuine) and they 'feel' similar 
Nowt wrong with that. IWC fine detail - finishing - and especially their bracelets which are splendid - is superior to Sinn's. However, Sinn aren't just a cut-price ETA badge engineer - what I love about Sinn is their focus on innovation and clever lower-cost *enhancements* to the base ETA movements.
Sinn's price bracket will never allow bespoke movements unless they take a Sea-Gull ST16, comprehensively re-work it and call it 'their' calibre (like some Swiss brands do). IWC's price bracket only allows bespoke movements in their top-end pieces, after all. But Sinn *do* make clever alterations to their base ETA movements - low cost but high impact. Stuff like special lubricants that operate at extended temperatures (Arktis), copper sulphate capsules (cheap, don't last forever, but visible and functional), and who can forget Diapal (stupendously, not monstrously overpriced - but I suppose the difference in coefficient of friction between synthetic diamond and synthetic ruby is not a step-change).
So Sinn get my 'cool wall' vote and hence a Sinn is in my collection (and I'm seriously considering swapping it for an Arktis if I can do a swap, mainly because my watch was bought on looks alone - and it IS beautiful - whereas the Arktis not only has all the little enhancements that I laud Sinn for, but also has a beautiful ice-blue dial. So if anyone has an Arktis on bracelet and fancies a 356 II copper-dial on leather deployant AND some cash, contact me. I may ask Neil, he's been good in the past). Whilst I've been umming and ahhing about the number of sports chronos in my collection, I must have a Sinn, purely because I see them as possibly the best value 'tool' watch for *new* prices in the region of £1k (lots of debate there, hehe). And, on topic, I don't think I've seen a replica Sinn. Of course, a rep Sinn would be easy and a base model without 'enhancements' would be impossible to tell from genuine, but it'd be a £300 fake of a £700 genuine, and I don't think there's a market for that.
andy_s & Luke - you're both in the TZ trader / flipper / ear-to-the-ground crew… can I ask a favour, if there's an Arktis for trade or sale then let me know - especially if the seller fancies a copper-dial 356 II (Luke - I know you like that watch… buy it and I'll be able to get the Arktis if I can find one!
)
So - nothing to do with replica watches, since there's no market to make fake Sinns. However, I feel that there's something special about Sinn, even though they use ETA, they stay price-competitive but offer interesting modifications that *do* things. Not just 'upgraded' components that you can't really spot unless you are entering chronometer competitions, but nice innovations.
A Sinn will remain in my collection. But I reckon it has to be an Arktis. It's got all the innovations except the Diapal - I guess the temperature range necessitated a lubricated movement using their ultra-high-grade oil, rather than the unlubricated Diapal. And… according to Chronomaster, it's still on sale! I love it.
So someone buy my lovely 356 II so I can put my Sinn habit to bed with a top example for the collection (yeah, I'll end up with a U1 on rubber at some point, but I really shouldn't…)
andy_s said:
el stovey said:
Didn't the Sinn boss used to work at IWC?
Indeed - "In 1994, Helmut Sinn sold the company to Lothar Schmidt, who constructed watches in the Porsche-Design Team in the 1970s and later on was authorized officer of the IWC. Among other things, Schmidt designed watch cases made from titanium for the IWC and after 1990 he was responsible for the rebuilding of the IWC brand A. Lange & Söhne."
Nowt wrong with that. IWC fine detail - finishing - and especially their bracelets which are splendid - is superior to Sinn's. However, Sinn aren't just a cut-price ETA badge engineer - what I love about Sinn is their focus on innovation and clever lower-cost *enhancements* to the base ETA movements.
Sinn's price bracket will never allow bespoke movements unless they take a Sea-Gull ST16, comprehensively re-work it and call it 'their' calibre (like some Swiss brands do). IWC's price bracket only allows bespoke movements in their top-end pieces, after all. But Sinn *do* make clever alterations to their base ETA movements - low cost but high impact. Stuff like special lubricants that operate at extended temperatures (Arktis), copper sulphate capsules (cheap, don't last forever, but visible and functional), and who can forget Diapal (stupendously, not monstrously overpriced - but I suppose the difference in coefficient of friction between synthetic diamond and synthetic ruby is not a step-change).
So Sinn get my 'cool wall' vote and hence a Sinn is in my collection (and I'm seriously considering swapping it for an Arktis if I can do a swap, mainly because my watch was bought on looks alone - and it IS beautiful - whereas the Arktis not only has all the little enhancements that I laud Sinn for, but also has a beautiful ice-blue dial. So if anyone has an Arktis on bracelet and fancies a 356 II copper-dial on leather deployant AND some cash, contact me. I may ask Neil, he's been good in the past). Whilst I've been umming and ahhing about the number of sports chronos in my collection, I must have a Sinn, purely because I see them as possibly the best value 'tool' watch for *new* prices in the region of £1k (lots of debate there, hehe). And, on topic, I don't think I've seen a replica Sinn. Of course, a rep Sinn would be easy and a base model without 'enhancements' would be impossible to tell from genuine, but it'd be a £300 fake of a £700 genuine, and I don't think there's a market for that.
andy_s & Luke - you're both in the TZ trader / flipper / ear-to-the-ground crew… can I ask a favour, if there's an Arktis for trade or sale then let me know - especially if the seller fancies a copper-dial 356 II (Luke - I know you like that watch… buy it and I'll be able to get the Arktis if I can find one!
)So - nothing to do with replica watches, since there's no market to make fake Sinns. However, I feel that there's something special about Sinn, even though they use ETA, they stay price-competitive but offer interesting modifications that *do* things. Not just 'upgraded' components that you can't really spot unless you are entering chronometer competitions, but nice innovations.
A Sinn will remain in my collection. But I reckon it has to be an Arktis. It's got all the innovations except the Diapal - I guess the temperature range necessitated a lubricated movement using their ultra-high-grade oil, rather than the unlubricated Diapal. And… according to Chronomaster, it's still on sale! I love it.
So someone buy my lovely 356 II so I can put my Sinn habit to bed with a top example for the collection (yeah, I'll end up with a U1 on rubber at some point, but I really shouldn't…)
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