Discussion
Anyone got any strong views on these now they're a common enough sight?
Reason I ask is I've come across two or three windfarm proposals in the course of my work, and all have been highly contentious. Surprisingly so for what seems a pretty benign way of making electricity. Then again I don't have to live next door to one (yet)
Reason I ask is I've come across two or three windfarm proposals in the course of my work, and all have been highly contentious. Surprisingly so for what seems a pretty benign way of making electricity. Then again I don't have to live next door to one (yet)
They have a fixed life expectancy and will go away, at considerable decommissioning cost too. Whether similar devices are re-erected is very much doubtful as their true pointlessness will be clear by then, not to mention the ecological damage they cause by killing thousands of raptors and bats.
Utterly pointless and hugely costly white elephants.
Utterly pointless and hugely costly white elephants.
As an engineering solution I think they are quite good if placed in the correct location wrt to distance from civilisation and expected wind speeds/duration. However, as a solution to reducing the carbon footprint of the UKs energy requirement they are not the ideal solution that is rolled out when ever someone wants to build a field of them.
This has already been discussed at lenght on PH the major points normally arising are the enormous connecting costs to the main grid as well the storage requirement for when the wind isn't blowing.
From memory the existing Gas Turbine or Coal powerstations need to be kept on line as the leadin time from switching them on to power being produced is greater than weather forecasting ability.
There is also a major objection from the air traffic controllers including military due to the siting of these farms in relation to the radar sites.
I think one also failed in Scotland earlier this year when a brake failed!
This has already been discussed at lenght on PH the major points normally arising are the enormous connecting costs to the main grid as well the storage requirement for when the wind isn't blowing.
From memory the existing Gas Turbine or Coal powerstations need to be kept on line as the leadin time from switching them on to power being produced is greater than weather forecasting ability.
There is also a major objection from the air traffic controllers including military due to the siting of these farms in relation to the radar sites.
I think one also failed in Scotland earlier this year when a brake failed!
Skywalker said:
Surely the offshore farms would be better?
Depends on the interpretation of 'better', the costs of windymills offshore are higher than land-based equivalents and as a result they can be bankrupt before they turn a blade. Largesse from Renewables Obligation Certificates (taxpayer subsidy) is needed to make them even remotely feasible.I wasn't sure at first but now I quite like them. Some will complain, I suppose some complained about windmills when they where first built. They do have a carbon dioxide "footprint" (which is often mis-stated) because of their erratic behaviour in terms of energy output you have to also have a damping system (often a gas powered turbine) to supply when producing under peak power. Also producing them is energy intensive.
Also at only a couple of megawatts each you need quite a few to supply a market like the UK with a 45+GW power consumption on average and the wind doesn't blow sometimes.
Also at only a couple of megawatts each you need quite a few to supply a market like the UK with a 45+GW power consumption on average and the wind doesn't blow sometimes.
Skywalker said:
Surely the offshore farms would be better?
Would they not have less noise & visual pollution. I'd prefer them to a b
king gas or coal power station in fairness.
(ETA - They work well on Sim City if you put them near the edge of the map)
Proiblem is you need them in addition to bWould they not have less noise & visual pollution. I'd prefer them to a b
king gas or coal power station in fairness.(ETA - They work well on Sim City if you put them near the edge of the map)
Edited by Skywalker on Sunday 9th November 10:46
king gas or coal power, for when the wind don't blow......speedy_thrills said:
Also at only a couple of megawatts each you need quite a few to supply a market like the UK with a 45+GW power consumption on average and the wind doesn't blow sometimes.
Even X-Factor doesn't seem to have much impact - as to being windy when power is needed, most of the time forget it. In fact, forget windymills, build nukes.http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Electricity/Data/Re...
Jasandjules said:
They don't actually produce that much leccie as I understand it. So large concrete monstrosities which actually have little benefit in the cost/benefit ratio IMHO. They kill loads of wildlife, which IMHO isn't all that helpful when one is supposed to be "saving the planet".
Well most are 2MW, the UK needs an average of 45,000MW so that's 22,500 turbines operating at peak performance.I'd say you'd probably be looking at 10% of the land area being covered to output that sort of power. Which is fine as long as it's Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland IMO
.Jasandjules said:
They don't actually produce that much leccie as I understand it. So large concrete monstrosities which actually have little benefit in the cost/benefit ratio IMHO. They kill loads of wildlife, which IMHO isn't all that helpful when one is supposed to be "saving the planet".
I'm not sure they're the most efficient way to generate leccy overall. On the other hand any argument against them based on the impact on the enviroment is weak imo. I certainly can't think of a less intrusive generation device environmentally, although the argument that they're an eyesore is a strong one.
Frik said:
Jasandjules said:
They don't actually produce that much leccie as I understand it. So large concrete monstrosities which actually have little benefit in the cost/benefit ratio IMHO. They kill loads of wildlife, which IMHO isn't all that helpful when one is supposed to be "saving the planet".
I'm not sure they're the most efficient way to generate leccy overall. On the other hand any argument against them based on the impact on the enviroment is weak imo. I certainly can't think of a less intrusive generation device environmentally, although the argument that they're an eyesore is a strong one.turbobloke said:
Skywalker said:
Surely the offshore farms would be better?
Depends on the interpretation of 'better', the costs of windymills offshore are higher than land-based equivalents and as a result they can be bankrupt before they turn a blade. Largesse from Renewables Obligation Certificates (taxpayer subsidy) is needed to make them even remotely feasible.If they are serious about renewables then they need to look at sources of energy that are reliable and consistent. Wind is neither.
I'm all for tidal power personally. You get far more electricity generated and its consistent as long as the moon continues to circle the planet.
Have you seen the size of the concrete base they're mounted on? They're mahoosive, and once those are in they're there for ever. The windmills on the other hand have a very limited life and will have to be decommissioned at great expense at the end of their life. If you've fallen for the 'carbon footprint' b*llocks and think these are going to save the planet then better think again because that windmill would have to run for hundreds of years to produce enough energy to be a net CO2 benefit, and of course they will actually only run for a few decades. We can't even afford to get rid of any of the non-renewable power supplies, because wind power isn't reliable. So, the existing plant will have to be kept up and running on standby, which is a huge waste of resources.
The economics of wind power would make it an obvious no-hoper, it is wasn't for publicly funded grants supporting these things.
The economics of wind power would make it an obvious no-hoper, it is wasn't for publicly funded grants supporting these things.
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