Renovating an old wooden sports boat, am I mad?
Discussion
Huntsman said:
You need to check the level and square before you use them, don't assume they are true.
To check the square pop it along a straight edge and pencil a 90 deg line, flop it lover and see if it follows the line.
That's what's wrong with my spirit level, it's very slightly out of true so not good enough for this job. It's says 'Adjustable' on the front, but when I took it apart, it isn't!To check the square pop it along a straight edge and pencil a 90 deg line, flop it lover and see if it follows the line.
Hardly a king's ransom for a better one. My square is only a 12" one, fine for making frames, but not really big enough for lining them up. Good shout on checking it, I hadn't thought of that, assumed it would be straight at least until I dropped it.
I bought the wrong coach bolts (assumed the blocks would be fitted the other way around) so need to get some more ordered. That'll leave me a few days to make the blocking parts and line it all up thoroughly.
OneDs said:
Nice one Maser beginning to make sense now, and the Hillman looks like real nice car with difference and of course that personal history to have in your collection.
I don't really know but the blocks between the Frames/stringers look quite erm.. small given the size and weight of the boat and the power you'll be driving through them, the stringers and frames.
Did any of the other builds make adjustments in this area? I'd be tempted to do something like making it bigger so it goes over bothsides of the Stringers half lapping/notching them on the frames & stringers, fairing to the hull and then encasing them in Epoxy soaked fiberglass.
Still belongs to the old man, I'm just looking after it for a while. I don't really know but the blocks between the Frames/stringers look quite erm.. small given the size and weight of the boat and the power you'll be driving through them, the stringers and frames.
Did any of the other builds make adjustments in this area? I'd be tempted to do something like making it bigger so it goes over bothsides of the Stringers half lapping/notching them on the frames & stringers, fairing to the hull and then encasing them in Epoxy soaked fiberglass.
Edited by OneDs on Friday 7th February 12:07
The blocks do look a little small in the pics, but they're actually relatively sizeable and strong. I'm going to trust Ken on this, the other builds I've seen are exactly the same so no reason to think he's blundered.
I do agree they need a bit of beefing up though, I'll glass them in after fairing, before the planking goes on.
Painting an F1 car today (ha!), a bit too busy for boats, sadly.
Eleven said:
maser_spyder said:
Painting an F1 car today (ha!), a bit too busy for boats, sadly.
Watercolour?ETA - I've had a think about progress made so far (and a comment somebody else made when they saw it in person this week), and it's going a lot quicker than I thought it would. I have an estimate on time-scale. Cold moulding by the spring. Turn over by late autumn. Deck and interior fit out over next winter. Launch next spring or early summer. That'll make it around an 18 month project.
That's certainly something that'll come back to bite me on the arse.
Edited by maser_spyder on Saturday 8th February 09:40
Huntsman said:
I would say you need a square with 2ft and 3ft legs as a minimum.
I have a set, welcome to borrow them if needed.
You're a gent, thanks.I have a set, welcome to borrow them if needed.
I found a 2' one at Toolstation, which should just be enough. A whopping £4-odd. Picked up a Stabila level too, better than my old B&Q 'adjustable' one.
Hoping to get a day on this tomorrow. Might start getting the blocking in place with zinc coach bolts and I'll replace them in a week or two when the proper ones arrive.
My first bit of outside help should be arriving later this week.
I've been holding off getting the frames fixed to the stringers until I'm 99.9% confident it's all lined up properly. I've got it almost right, but it really needs a second pair of eyes to make sure it's very well lined up so I won't get issues later.
Enter my old man. He's got a much better eye for detail than me (the Hillman proves that), so he's going to come over with his laser level and give it all a good going over to make sure it's all straight and true.
That done, I'll get the frames fixed in place and start on notching for the keel and chine logs. Should really start taking shape over the next couple of weeks...
I've been holding off getting the frames fixed to the stringers until I'm 99.9% confident it's all lined up properly. I've got it almost right, but it really needs a second pair of eyes to make sure it's very well lined up so I won't get issues later.
Enter my old man. He's got a much better eye for detail than me (the Hillman proves that), so he's going to come over with his laser level and give it all a good going over to make sure it's all straight and true.
That done, I'll get the frames fixed in place and start on notching for the keel and chine logs. Should really start taking shape over the next couple of weeks...
Not much progress this week, until today.
I've spent most of the week getting an F1 car ready to go to Spain, then almost immediately after that, my workshop nearly flooded.
Had to have a good sort out, get all the valuable stuff (suddenly there's loads of it) up on the pallet racking, and cars up on axle stands, lifts, trailers, etc. Not easy when I couldn't move anything out to the yard as it was a foot deep in water already.
Anyway, the old man was there today with his keen eye and laser level, so the transom is now firmly bolted in place and frame 1 too. I'll keep moving forwards as long as the weather holds off, shouldn't take too long to get the blocking in place.
That done, the frames are fixed and I'm ready to start notching for the keel.
All the timber has had to come off the floor and go in the back of the shed (my old Luton van) just in case I get any water through the doors. That's the third time I've had to move it all.
All in all, a frustratingly slow week, but still making progress.
I've spent most of the week getting an F1 car ready to go to Spain, then almost immediately after that, my workshop nearly flooded.
Had to have a good sort out, get all the valuable stuff (suddenly there's loads of it) up on the pallet racking, and cars up on axle stands, lifts, trailers, etc. Not easy when I couldn't move anything out to the yard as it was a foot deep in water already.
Anyway, the old man was there today with his keen eye and laser level, so the transom is now firmly bolted in place and frame 1 too. I'll keep moving forwards as long as the weather holds off, shouldn't take too long to get the blocking in place.
That done, the frames are fixed and I'm ready to start notching for the keel.
All the timber has had to come off the floor and go in the back of the shed (my old Luton van) just in case I get any water through the doors. That's the third time I've had to move it all.
All in all, a frustratingly slow week, but still making progress.
Eleven said:
maser_spyder said:
Eleven said:
Is it too late to convert the boat into an ark?
Congratulations on being the 100th person to suggest this! 
gwm said:
Glad you managed to save most of your stuff. The irony of potentially losing your boat project to flood water would have been dire!
Managed to save it all. The water was about three inches from flooding across the whole floor, it was lapping against the roller shutter doors when I turned up this morning. Got wet feet getting in!The irony of nearly having all my work ruined was not lost on me! Oddly, it's about the only thing in there that couldn't be easily moved. Cars went on ramps, trailers, 2 post lift, axle stands, etc. and everything else went on the pallet racking. But how do you lift a 7 metre boat that's still in bits!?
It would probably have been ok, frames removed, the jig might have been written off but that's only a few hour's work.
Still, all safe (for now), looking forward to getting it water tight. Chaos aside, it's still moving faster than I thought it would, I'm still only three months in (timber arrived the week before Christmas!).
Frames all now fixed and bolted in place (some have the wrong bolts, but I'll replace these when the silicon bronze ones arrive).
Keel notched, frame 6 cock-up noted and corrected, ready for the second keel layer and then chine logs and battens.
Looks like I'll be laying up the ply in the early Spring, well ahead of schedule.
Keel notched, frame 6 cock-up noted and corrected, ready for the second keel layer and then chine logs and battens.
Looks like I'll be laying up the ply in the early Spring, well ahead of schedule.
Huntsman said:
Have you run a lofting batten along those frames to see how fair she is?
Yup, I did that when setting up the frame blocking, making sure the frames were both dead centre and level both sides. It should save a lot of fiddling around later because the frames are almost perfect.Spot the laser level used to get them just right! Along with a spirit level and big set square. Belt and braces.
That's some skinny frames on that Riva, about half the width of mine.
No name yet, but I have some ideas.
Those racing boats look great, but actually doing it is my idea of hell! What an endurance. Give me an anchorage and a cold beer instead please! Which reminds me, I should fit a fridge somewhere out of the way....
No name yet, but I have some ideas.
Those racing boats look great, but actually doing it is my idea of hell! What an endurance. Give me an anchorage and a cold beer instead please! Which reminds me, I should fit a fridge somewhere out of the way....
OneDs said:
Loving the work Maser... good use of the laser level, get it spot on and the rest should be eaiser, any thoughts on the screen? The few I've seen online look a bit minimal.
That's an interesting and striking variation to the riva design. The Belle Ilse has a really vertical bow and flatish bottom in comparison, I assume this means the Riva was designed with rougher water in mind. As you say yours is a fine weather, anchor up and have a beer type boat.
Screen? I think the Riva is more of a sea boat, I'm building a lake boat. Reason why, I'm never expecting to go out in grotty weather, so there's no really any point in building something for rough seas. If I go out in anything rough, it would be in a sailing boat. That's an interesting and striking variation to the riva design. The Belle Ilse has a really vertical bow and flatish bottom in comparison, I assume this means the Riva was designed with rougher water in mind. As you say yours is a fine weather, anchor up and have a beer type boat.
maser_spyder said:
That's some skinny frames on that Riva, about half the width of mine.
Judging by the depth of the frame on the Riva it looks about 2/3rds complete and it looks like their stations are much closer than on yours so perhaps they go with more frames and thinner timbers to compensate.Edited by OneDs on Tuesday 25th February 10:26
There's certainly a lot more frames on the Riva! I'm quite glad I've only got nine. Building them is one thing, but getting every single one set up, blocked, and kept level while the chines go in is another thing completely.
If you were doing it time and again, you would make a much more elaborate jig at the point I'm at now, with slots and guides for every single frame. That would take out many hours of lining up and measuring and speed things up a lot with a second one.
I'm not building a second one!
illmonkey said:
I'd like to know why you're constructing it under a cover, but it's inside.
That's my 'spray tent' that I use for paint spraying.It WAS over the F1 car I was preparing (pics to come), but had to be cleared away to get the forklift through and move everything up in the air when I was nearly flooded out.
Actually, there's bits all over the place again and it needs another good sort out. In the urgency, everything came off the floor and on to the tables/benches/anywhere it would fit, so it's a bit chaotic in there at the moment.
As usual in life, I need to have a good sort out. That should go on my gravestone.
Managed to squeeze in three hours today.
I need to pull my finger out. The stuff on the pallet racking behind the boat has to come down by mid June, which means the boat needs to be 'portable', which means the cold moulding has to be complete and ideally the veneer and prop shaft too.... Nothing like a bit of pressure to speed things along.
I need to pull my finger out. The stuff on the pallet racking behind the boat has to come down by mid June, which means the boat needs to be 'portable', which means the cold moulding has to be complete and ideally the veneer and prop shaft too.... Nothing like a bit of pressure to speed things along.
Another three hours today.
The chine logs are fitted and glued in place already, so next up was the deck clamps. Two layers laminated together, applied separately. You have to cut in to the shape of the frame to fit them, which leaves a bit of guess work later when fairing, so there was a bit of Laurel and Hardy-esq head scratching done today.
First layer screwed in place. I've not glued it yet, want to go over it again to make sure it all lines up properly. That done, I'll glue the first layer in, wait a day or two and apply the laminate outside (and a bit inside).
That done, I started on some of the many, many notches required for the battens. This is going to be a long old slog. Five on the bottom, four on the sides, 18 per frame and 9 frames in total. A bit of a dry old job unfortunately.
A lot more to do.....
I'll try and get the battens and deck clamps fitted and ready for fairing this week.
This is a bit of a scary bit. With battens and clamps and whatnots in place, the next stage is to fair it and then start applying the cold mould. I could be sticking ply on this in the next two weeks.
Which leads me to.... My ply sheets need to be cut in to strips for the cold moulding. The best way to do this would be on a big wall mounted board cutter (like they have at B&Q). Any idea who could do this for me near Winchester? The alternative is to use a circular saw with a guide, but it's going to be a bit rough and take forever, whereas a board cutter would be quick and easy. Answers on a postcard please!
The chine logs are fitted and glued in place already, so next up was the deck clamps. Two layers laminated together, applied separately. You have to cut in to the shape of the frame to fit them, which leaves a bit of guess work later when fairing, so there was a bit of Laurel and Hardy-esq head scratching done today.
First layer screwed in place. I've not glued it yet, want to go over it again to make sure it all lines up properly. That done, I'll glue the first layer in, wait a day or two and apply the laminate outside (and a bit inside).
That done, I started on some of the many, many notches required for the battens. This is going to be a long old slog. Five on the bottom, four on the sides, 18 per frame and 9 frames in total. A bit of a dry old job unfortunately.
A lot more to do.....
I'll try and get the battens and deck clamps fitted and ready for fairing this week.
This is a bit of a scary bit. With battens and clamps and whatnots in place, the next stage is to fair it and then start applying the cold mould. I could be sticking ply on this in the next two weeks.
Which leads me to.... My ply sheets need to be cut in to strips for the cold moulding. The best way to do this would be on a big wall mounted board cutter (like they have at B&Q). Any idea who could do this for me near Winchester? The alternative is to use a circular saw with a guide, but it's going to be a bit rough and take forever, whereas a board cutter would be quick and easy. Answers on a postcard please!
Huntsman said:
Give one of the proper timber yards a call, Bamptons in Southampton, KJ Howells in Poole, or Robbins.
How many layers? Directions?
Hadn't heard of Bamptons, I'll look them up, ta.How many layers? Directions?
It starts off with about 2' wide strips at the stern (where it's basically flat) to 6" strips at the front (where it's got a lot of curves), and possibly a couple of foot wide strips near the middle but not sure yet.
I've got ten boards, I just need them cut two or four at a time (that way it'll all match up nicely).
I guess I could do it with the circular saw but it's far from ideal. Might try one and see how it goes.
OneDs said:
If you can't get access to board cutter, I'd have thought using the router freehand against a crude guide/fence/jig would give a clean and accurate and repeatable cut.
On your mahoosive table lay a pieces of timber to hand say a 6x2 then space them out to provide support and depth for the router bit to cut through your stack of ply. Clamp them down use another straight edge above the support to provide a guide clamp that above the supports and ply and hold the router against the guide to cut to size.
Effectively this is just a horizontal bodge of the large board cutters anyway. If your worried about straying away from the guide put another guide on the other side just big enough to move the router through.
Yeeeeeeeesssss. But a board cutter would be much quicker!On your mahoosive table lay a pieces of timber to hand say a 6x2 then space them out to provide support and depth for the router bit to cut through your stack of ply. Clamp them down use another straight edge above the support to provide a guide clamp that above the supports and ply and hold the router against the guide to cut to size.
Effectively this is just a horizontal bodge of the large board cutters anyway. If your worried about straying away from the guide put another guide on the other side just big enough to move the router through.
Fitting some battens today, keen to get the bottom ASAP.
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