Right, TopGun is on the telly, educate me about F14 Tomcats
Discussion
I heard a story a long time ago about those F-14s that were sold to Iran. They were sold when the old Shah (who was very friendly to the U.S.) was in power. When he was ousted and Ayatollah Khomeini took over, the U.S. was very worried that the now unfriendly Iranians would use the F-14s against us or our allies. After all of our technicians (who were helping maintain the A/C and train the Iranians) left the country, none of the electronics on the planes worked. The rumor says that those technicians installed a virus that messed up the electronics in the planes.
Don't know if it's true, but that's what I heard.
This has always been my favorite jet. It's just bad-ass looking from any angle. Growing up, I just wanted to fly one. A 10 year commitment to the Navy made me change my mind.
Don't know if it's true, but that's what I heard.
This has always been my favorite jet. It's just bad-ass looking from any angle. Growing up, I just wanted to fly one. A 10 year commitment to the Navy made me change my mind.
speedtwelve said:
eharding said:
Jaguar Pilot: "Third from the right. I've got the serial number. As the Court Martial proceedings state, I was in a receipt of a training bounce from a Phantom, and the next thing I knew the seat had fired and I was on the end of a parachute. The 
s"
Said Jag pilot was unfortunate to have to jump out yet again only a few months later after an engine fire. After the second accident he was taking someone up for a pax trip in a T2 Jag. On the take-off emergencies brief, nervous pax-in-back was told not to hang around on hearing 'Eject eject eject', as our Jag mate was getting rather tired of banging out and wasn't too keen on trying it for a third time s"There is a American pilot who has taken the Martin Baker exit route on four seperate ocasions! Either says a great deal about how good the seats are or not a great deal about his flying.I'll dig out his name when I get home.I also like the storey of a childrens TV presenter who was taken up in a Hunter for an inverted spin. The pilot gave an ejection briefing which consisted of "When hearing Eject,Eject,Eject! pull that lever, don't bother to say pardon because I won't be around to hear you!"
skyslimit said:
Anyone know how many times you are allowed to eject before they ground you?
Where I trained it was run by an ex test pilot, and apparently thats what ended his Military career sadly.
It depends if he sustained any injuries, the older seats used to cause compression of the spine, not sure if that's a career limiting injury though. There are stories of ejectees losing an inch or so afterwardsWhere I trained it was run by an ex test pilot, and apparently thats what ended his Military career sadly.
eharding said:
Mojocvh said:
Argentine Pilot: "Well, I don't know - I think it was the second from the left, but all I got was
RWR warning at the last second, and the next thing I knew the seat had fired and I was on the end of a parachute"
Edited by eharding on Tuesday 16th March 23:36
2. Doubt it
TASS said:
skyslimit said:
Anyone know how many times you are allowed to eject before they ground you?
Where I trained it was run by an ex test pilot, and apparently thats what ended his Military career sadly.
It depends if he sustained any injuries, the older seats used to cause compression of the spine, not sure if that's a career limiting injury though. There are stories of ejectees losing an inch or so afterwardsWhere I trained it was run by an ex test pilot, and apparently thats what ended his Military career sadly.
There was also the German pneumatic seat used in WW2 which was predated by the Swedish seats used in various Saabs and the case of the Russian test pilot who had a very unexpected exit. He strapped himself into the airplane and started the engine, as the engine spooled up the hydralics came on line and started to move the joy stick to the centre of the cockpit but alas as it moved it somehow snagged part of the seat mechanism and up he went!
I've got a very good book on Sir James Martin at home I'll post the title and ISBN number later as well as the one by the Russian test pilot.
Tango13 said:
TASS said:
skyslimit said:
Anyone know how many times you are allowed to eject before they ground you?
Where I trained it was run by an ex test pilot, and apparently thats what ended his Military career sadly.
It depends if he sustained any injuries, the older seats used to cause compression of the spine, not sure if that's a career limiting injury though. There are stories of ejectees losing an inch or so afterwardsWhere I trained it was run by an ex test pilot, and apparently thats what ended his Military career sadly.
There was also the German pneumatic seat used in WW2 which was predated by the Swedish seats used in various Saabs and the case of the Russian test pilot who had a very unexpected exit. He strapped himself into the airplane and started the engine, as the engine spooled up the hydralics came on line and started to move the joy stick to the centre of the cockpit but alas as it moved it somehow snagged part of the seat mechanism and up he went!
I've got a very good book on Sir James Martin at home I'll post the title and ISBN number later as well as the one by the Russian test pilot.
skyslimit said:
Anyone know how many times you are allowed to eject before they ground you?
Where I trained it was run by an ex test pilot, and apparently that's what ended his Military career sadly.
Where I trained it was run by an ex test pilot, and apparently that's what ended his Military career sadly.
TASS said:
It depends if he sustained any injuries, the older seats used to cause compression of the spine, not sure if that's a career limiting injury though. There are stories of ejectees losing an inch or so afterwards
Tango13 said:
The early seats used a cartridge of high explosive which gave a short sharp acceleration which as you say did cause compression injuries. The newer seats use rockets which give a relatively linear acceleration and hopefully less damage.
There are two limitations that affect the human body with respect to a successful ejection. These are the Peak G generated and the Rate of Onset of G applied. These are (IIRC) around 24 G max and a max onset of 22 G/s. The Germans developed a seat for the Dornier 335 Pfeil which basically used a big compressed spring working through a lever arm - ejectees using this seat were found to be pulped, hence MB carrying out their research in the 1950's.Earlier MB seats (eg the Mk 4 fitted to the Jet Provost) used THREE cartridges to provide gas which literally fires the seat out of the a/c like a bullet from a gun - there is a tube on the back of the seat that fits over an extending tube which is attached to the a/c; the two act rather like a rifle barrel (if you look at a/c where ejection has occurred then you will see the a/c mounted tube in the extended position).
The major problem with the earlier seats was the rate of onset of G (rather than peak G) which could cause spinal damage (even in cases of 'Pre-meditated ejection' with a good ejection posture); compression fractures of (particularly) the lumbar vertebrae, coupled with damage to (ballooning of) the inter-vertebral discs were common. Dependent upon the spinal damage incurred, this could result in the termination of a fast jet career after even a single ejection - a very good friend of mine ejected from a Canberra (Mk 2 seat) on short final (below 200') and didn't fly on a bang seat again for a couple of years as a result of his spinal damage.
Another limitation of these seats was that they were rated as 0-90 seats. That is to say, they would get you out on the ground, but only if you had a forward speed of 90kts.
Later seats, such as the Mk 7 (fitted to the F4K/M) onwards, still used the ejection gun (and three cartridges) but with a reduced overall charge. These seats had a rocket pack attached to the base of the seat to give a boost to the trajectory of the seat (as well as, in the case of 2 seat a/c, to ensure the trajectories of the 2 seats differed to lessen the chance of collision - the aircrew dial in their weight into the seat to alter the angle of the rocket pack) - the upshot being that a greater peak G occurs but with a lower G onset. Such seats were designed, not with an intention to reduce of injury, but to give the crew an enhanced ability to safely eject at low level.
Seats such as the Mk8 fitted to the Hawk were fully gas operated (meaning that the overall ejection time was reduced) thus increasing the chances of a successful low level ejection (even in cases of a rate of descent).
These rocket seats are generally rated as 0-0 seats, that is to say they will get you out of the a/c on the ground with no forward speed. Indeed the Hawk seat will get the crew out safely inverted at 250' if the a/c has a forward speed of 300kts (the speed is required here for successful drogue gun opertation and seat separation).
The American pilot who succesfully ejected four times in little over 5 1/2years was Lt David Lortscher.
This is detailed in Sarah Sharmans' book "Sir James Martin" ISBN 1-85260-551-0
The book also shows the concept for a compressed spring and lever system that was never built or tested and certainly never fitted to the Do335 Pfiel. The Dornier 335 and Heinkel 219 used a compressed air seat while the Focke-Wulf Ta 152 and Heinkel 162 used an explosive cartridge system.
In Captain Eric Browns' book "Wings of the Luftwaffe" he mentions that the emergency canopy release system fitted to the Do335 had a slight design flaw. Before flying the Do335 he heard stories of the dead bodies of test pilots being found without their arms! The release handles were fixed to the canopy and not the inside of the cockpit so as a firm grip was needed to jettison the canopy the storey was that the pilots' arms were taken off with the canopy!
This is detailed in Sarah Sharmans' book "Sir James Martin" ISBN 1-85260-551-0
The book also shows the concept for a compressed spring and lever system that was never built or tested and certainly never fitted to the Do335 Pfiel. The Dornier 335 and Heinkel 219 used a compressed air seat while the Focke-Wulf Ta 152 and Heinkel 162 used an explosive cartridge system.
In Captain Eric Browns' book "Wings of the Luftwaffe" he mentions that the emergency canopy release system fitted to the Do335 had a slight design flaw. Before flying the Do335 he heard stories of the dead bodies of test pilots being found without their arms! The release handles were fixed to the canopy and not the inside of the cockpit so as a firm grip was needed to jettison the canopy the storey was that the pilots' arms were taken off with the canopy!
Yippee38 said:
I heard a story a long time ago about those F-14s that were sold to Iran. They were sold when the old Shah (who was very friendly to the U.S.) was in power. When he was ousted and Ayatollah Khomeini took over, the U.S. was very worried that the now unfriendly Iranians would use the F-14s against us or our allies. After all of our technicians (who were helping maintain the A/C and train the Iranians) left the country, none of the electronics on the planes worked. The rumor says that those technicians installed a virus that messed up the electronics in the planes.
Don't know if it's true, but that's what I heard.
This has always been my favorite jet. It's just bad-ass looking from any angle. Growing up, I just wanted to fly one. A 10 year commitment to the Navy made me change my mind.
Not very likely, that which isn't valve technology would be silicon analogue or early digital computers; software isn't really involved as it's down to the wiring and trimmer tweeking(which could be messed with, but doesn't really constitute a virus).Don't know if it's true, but that's what I heard.
This has always been my favorite jet. It's just bad-ass looking from any angle. Growing up, I just wanted to fly one. A 10 year commitment to the Navy made me change my mind.
Tango13 said:
The American pilot who succesfully ejected four times in little over 5 1/2years was Lt David Lortscher.
This is detailed in Sarah Sharmans' book "Sir James Martin" ISBN 1-85260-551-0
The book also shows the concept for a compressed spring and lever system that was never built or tested and certainly never fitted to the Do335 Pfiel. The Dornier 335 and Heinkel 219 used a compressed air seat while the Focke-Wulf Ta 152 and Heinkel 162 used an explosive cartridge system.
In Captain Eric Browns' book "Wings of the Luftwaffe" he mentions that the emergency canopy release system fitted to the Do335 had a slight design flaw. Before flying the Do335 he heard stories of the dead bodies of test pilots being found without their arms! The release handles were fixed to the canopy and not the inside of the cockpit so as a firm grip was needed to jettison the canopy the storey was that the pilots' arms were taken off with the canopy!
A Dornier 335 crashed into the playground of Cove Junior School here in Farnborough. The ai5rcraft was a captured example which was being test flown by a Group Captain Hards. His rear engine caught fire and the flames burned through his elevator cables before he could reach the runway. Luckilly, school had just broken up for the day so there were no children caught up in the accident.This is detailed in Sarah Sharmans' book "Sir James Martin" ISBN 1-85260-551-0
The book also shows the concept for a compressed spring and lever system that was never built or tested and certainly never fitted to the Do335 Pfiel. The Dornier 335 and Heinkel 219 used a compressed air seat while the Focke-Wulf Ta 152 and Heinkel 162 used an explosive cartridge system.
In Captain Eric Browns' book "Wings of the Luftwaffe" he mentions that the emergency canopy release system fitted to the Do335 had a slight design flaw. Before flying the Do335 he heard stories of the dead bodies of test pilots being found without their arms! The release handles were fixed to the canopy and not the inside of the cockpit so as a firm grip was needed to jettison the canopy the storey was that the pilots' arms were taken off with the canopy!
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
skyslimit said:
Anyone know how many times you are allowed to eject before they ground you?
Where I trained it was run by an ex test pilot, and apparently that's what ended his Military career sadly.
Where I trained it was run by an ex test pilot, and apparently that's what ended his Military career sadly.
TASS said:
It depends if he sustained any injuries, the older seats used to cause compression of the spine, not sure if that's a career limiting injury though. There are stories of ejectees losing an inch or so afterwards
Tango13 said:
The early seats used a cartridge of high explosive which gave a short sharp acceleration which as you say did cause compression injuries. The newer seats use rockets which give a relatively linear acceleration and hopefully less damage.
There are two limitations that affect the human body with respect to a successful ejection. These are the Peak G generated and the Rate of Onset of G applied. These are (IIRC) around 24 G max and a max onset of 22 G/s. The Germans developed a seat for the Dornier 335 Pfeil which basically used a big compressed spring working through a lever arm - ejectees using this seat were found to be pulped, hence MB carrying out their research in the 1950's.Earlier MB seats (eg the Mk 4 fitted to the Jet Provost) used THREE cartridges to provide gas which literally fires the seat out of the a/c like a bullet from a gun - there is a tube on the back of the seat that fits over an extending tube which is attached to the a/c; the two act rather like a rifle barrel (if you look at a/c where ejection has occurred then you will see the a/c mounted tube in the extended position).
The major problem with the earlier seats was the rate of onset of G (rather than peak G) which could cause spinal damage (even in cases of 'Pre-meditated ejection' with a good ejection posture); compression fractures of (particularly) the lumbar vertebrae, coupled with damage to (ballooning of) the inter-vertebral discs were common. Dependent upon the spinal damage incurred, this could result in the termination of a fast jet career after even a single ejection - a very good friend of mine ejected from a Canberra (Mk 2 seat) on short final (below 200') and didn't fly on a bang seat again for a couple of years as a result of his spinal damage.
Another limitation of these seats was that they were rated as 0-90 seats. That is to say, they would get you out on the ground, but only if you had a forward speed of 90kts.
Later seats, such as the Mk 7 (fitted to the F4K/M) onwards, still used the ejection gun (and three cartridges) but with a reduced overall charge. These seats had a rocket pack attached to the base of the seat to give a boost to the trajectory of the seat (as well as, in the case of 2 seat a/c, to ensure the trajectories of the 2 seats differed to lessen the chance of collision - the aircrew dial in their weight into the seat to alter the angle of the rocket pack) - the upshot being that a greater peak G occurs but with a lower G onset. Such seats were designed, not with an intention to reduce of injury, but to give the crew an enhanced ability to safely eject at low level.
Seats such as the Mk8 fitted to the Hawk were fully gas operated (meaning that the overall ejection time was reduced) thus increasing the chances of a successful low level ejection (even in cases of a rate of descent).
These rocket seats are generally rated as 0-0 seats, that is to say they will get you out of the a/c on the ground with no forward speed. Indeed the Hawk seat will get the crew out safely inverted at 250' if the a/c has a forward speed of 300kts (the speed is required here for successful drogue gun opertation and seat separation).
http://www.martin-baker.co.uk/Products/Ejection-Se...
Two things were beaten into us during our technical training at 1STT.
Props and Ejection seats.
I found as an young erk it really went against the grain of all we had been taught when pinning up the nav's seat on a pr9 and I still HATE going near a prop (in my old age).
Edited by Mojocvh on Wednesday 17th March 19:10
Eric Mc said:
Tango13 said:
The American pilot who succesfully ejected four times in little over 5 1/2years was Lt David Lortscher.
This is detailed in Sarah Sharmans' book "Sir James Martin" ISBN 1-85260-551-0
The book also shows the concept for a compressed spring and lever system that was never built or tested and certainly never fitted to the Do335 Pfiel. The Dornier 335 and Heinkel 219 used a compressed air seat while the Focke-Wulf Ta 152 and Heinkel 162 used an explosive cartridge system.
In Captain Eric Browns' book "Wings of the Luftwaffe" he mentions that the emergency canopy release system fitted to the Do335 had a slight design flaw. Before flying the Do335 he heard stories of the dead bodies of test pilots being found without their arms! The release handles were fixed to the canopy and not the inside of the cockpit so as a firm grip was needed to jettison the canopy the storey was that the pilots' arms were taken off with the canopy!
A Dornier 335 crashed into the playground of Cove Junior School here in Farnborough. The ai5rcraft was a captured example which was being test flown by a Group Captain Hards. His rear engine caught fire and the flames burned through his elevator cables before he could reach the runway. Luckilly, school had just broken up for the day so there were no children caught up in the accident.This is detailed in Sarah Sharmans' book "Sir James Martin" ISBN 1-85260-551-0
The book also shows the concept for a compressed spring and lever system that was never built or tested and certainly never fitted to the Do335 Pfiel. The Dornier 335 and Heinkel 219 used a compressed air seat while the Focke-Wulf Ta 152 and Heinkel 162 used an explosive cartridge system.
In Captain Eric Browns' book "Wings of the Luftwaffe" he mentions that the emergency canopy release system fitted to the Do335 had a slight design flaw. Before flying the Do335 he heard stories of the dead bodies of test pilots being found without their arms! The release handles were fixed to the canopy and not the inside of the cockpit so as a firm grip was needed to jettison the canopy the storey was that the pilots' arms were taken off with the canopy!
Indeed Eric, that sounds like a harrier scenario, except it only has the ONE cable running to the elevator PFCU (dual hyd after this point)
Mo.
Mojocv said:
Not bad, but you give a false impression in omitting that the rail STILL has cartridges to get the seat moving "up" (or along) the ejection path before the trip rod fires the rockets in your mk 8 description but basically you got it right.
Actually I said:Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Later seats, such as the Mk 7 (fitted to the F4K/M) onwards, still used the ejection gun (and three cartridges) but with a reduced overall charge.
Note the words “Mk 7 onwards”Where I said:
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Seats such as the Mk8 fitted to the Hawk were fully gas operated…
Was to indicate that some of the gas (from the cartridge charge) is used to operate the seat (and associated) automatics such as the MDC, Command Eject, Drogue gun and BTRU (and in the case of the Tornado Mk 10 seat the arm restraint mechanism) as opposed to the earlier seats that were mechanically operated, hence the reduction in ejection time and the improved survivability at low level.Mojocv said:
Two things were beaten into us during our technical training at 1STT.
Props and Ejection seats.
I found as an young erk it really went against the grain of all we had been taught when pinning up the nav's seat on a pr9 and I still HATE going near a prop (in my old age).
I hear what you say. I always felt for the ‘linies’ having to make seats ‘Safe for Servicing’ / ‘Safe for Parking’, ESPECIALLY around trainee aircrew.Props and Ejection seats.
I found as an young erk it really went against the grain of all we had been taught when pinning up the nav's seat on a pr9 and I still HATE going near a prop (in my old age).
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff