Sale of Typhoon to India
Discussion
ralphrj said:
AshVX220 said:
Belgium actually give more in aid to India than the UK, which was a surprise.
Might go some way to explain why the Belgians are more succesful at exporting to India than we are.johnymac said:
ralphrj said:
AshVX220 said:
Belgium actually give more in aid to India than the UK, which was a surprise.
Might go some way to explain why the Belgians are more succesful at exporting to India than we are.Godalmighty83 said:
So the Italians bribe some Indians and in return India wants to blame the UK?
I'm glad I'm not the only one that wonders why if some Italians bribe some Indians it is the British PM that has to answer questions about it (yes, I know that the helicopters are made in the UK but is isn't Cameron or the workers in Yeovil that bunged them some cash).ralphrj said:
Godalmighty83 said:
So the Italians bribe some Indians and in return India wants to blame the UK?
I'm glad I'm not the only one that wonders why if some Italians bribe some Indians it is the British PM that has to answer questions about it (yes, I know that the helicopters are made in the UK but is isn't Cameron or the workers in Yeovil that bunged them some cash).Over 18 months have now passed since Rafale was chosen as the preferred aircraft for the Indian Air Force. Still no deal has been signed. One the eve of the Paris Airshow Dassault Management were hoping for a signature by the end of 2013.
There seems to have been all sorts of issues. As stated previously only the first 18 aircraft would be built by Dassault with the remaining 108 (plus 63 options) being produced in India (HAL). In other words, the benefit to Dassault's workforce and suppliers will be fairly limited.
This order seems to have become a poisoned chalice. Aside from those initial 18 units, Dassault are also expected to be responsible for the other 108 (potentially 171) aircraft produced by HAL. This seems rather unfair considering that HAL's aircraft will use many components manufactured by Indian Third Party companies and be assembled by HAL employees in their factory thousands of miles away. It would presumably mean Dassault micro-managing the whole project. It is also quite possible that the Indian produced aircraft will not be any cheaper than the French ones.
Furthermore, the offsets (transfer of technology) are also causing headaches. If you were a Western Defence technology manufacturer, would you be happy to hand over your development work for some other Asian company to benefit from?
Finally, the Indian Air Force is already liaising with Russia over a 5th Generation Fighter, so these delays are not helping Rafale's cause.
There seems to have been all sorts of issues. As stated previously only the first 18 aircraft would be built by Dassault with the remaining 108 (plus 63 options) being produced in India (HAL). In other words, the benefit to Dassault's workforce and suppliers will be fairly limited.
This order seems to have become a poisoned chalice. Aside from those initial 18 units, Dassault are also expected to be responsible for the other 108 (potentially 171) aircraft produced by HAL. This seems rather unfair considering that HAL's aircraft will use many components manufactured by Indian Third Party companies and be assembled by HAL employees in their factory thousands of miles away. It would presumably mean Dassault micro-managing the whole project. It is also quite possible that the Indian produced aircraft will not be any cheaper than the French ones.
Furthermore, the offsets (transfer of technology) are also causing headaches. If you were a Western Defence technology manufacturer, would you be happy to hand over your development work for some other Asian company to benefit from?
Finally, the Indian Air Force is already liaising with Russia over a 5th Generation Fighter, so these delays are not helping Rafale's cause.
LotusOmega375D said:
Finally, the Indian Air Force is already liaising with Russia over a 5th Generation Fighter, so these delays are not helping Rafale's cause.
Indian Navy though will still want the Rafale it trumps the MIG29K at most things, of course the current carrier fleet cant operate it without converting to CATOBAR.Another 9 months have passed and still nothing has been firmed up on this potential contract. Goodness knows what the French are making of it all!
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140204/DEFREG...
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140204/DEFREG...
onyx39 said:
And run like the Keystone Cops.http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/choppy-fi...
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/another-n...
LotusOmega375D said:
Another 9 months have passed and still nothing has been firmed up on this potential contract. Goodness knows what the French are making of it all!
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140204/DEFREG...
It took something like 17yrs from selection of Hawk to delivery of the first one to the Indians - they don't like rushing, and are VERY keen on the offset deals being very much in their favour. http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140204/DEFREG...
3 years on and the Rafale deal may not even happen.
"Indian Budget Casts Doubt on Rafale Deal"
http://www.defensenews.com/story/breaking-news/201...
"India Pushing Russia For Faster Development For Stealth Aircraft As Rafale Deal Stuck"
http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2015/03/09/rafale-rus...
"Indian Budget Casts Doubt on Rafale Deal"
http://www.defensenews.com/story/breaking-news/201...
"India Pushing Russia For Faster Development For Stealth Aircraft As Rafale Deal Stuck"
http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2015/03/09/rafale-rus...
Ian Lancs said:
It took something like 17yrs from selection of Hawk to delivery of the first one to the Indians - they don't like rushing, and are VERY keen on the offset deals being very much in their favour.
If that's the case the French should just tell them to stuff it, and walk away.Ian Lancs said:
LotusOmega375D said:
Another 9 months have passed and still nothing has been firmed up on this potential contract. Goodness knows what the French are making of it all!
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140204/DEFREG...
It took something like 17yrs from selection of Hawk to delivery of the first one to the Indians - they don't like rushing, and are VERY keen on the offset deals being very much in their favour.http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140204/DEFREG...
If I was a betting man I'd say the Rafale deal is dead. For one thing India cant afford it.
On another note...
India seems to have a rather strange approach to its fast air fleet.
They are supposed to be buying 120+ Rafales, 100+ PAK50 when they are ready. To go alongside their existing Su-30, Mig 29 and Mirage 2000s.
That's at least 5 very different airframes with overlapping capabilities (superiority and multirole), with the native Tejas fulfilling an interceptor role to replace the ageing Mig-21s.
You have to wonder how they've been deciding on their defence policies.
On another note...
India seems to have a rather strange approach to its fast air fleet.
They are supposed to be buying 120+ Rafales, 100+ PAK50 when they are ready. To go alongside their existing Su-30, Mig 29 and Mirage 2000s.
That's at least 5 very different airframes with overlapping capabilities (superiority and multirole), with the native Tejas fulfilling an interceptor role to replace the ageing Mig-21s.
You have to wonder how they've been deciding on their defence policies.
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