Ask a helicopter pilot anything

[LimaDelta]

Siko said:

LimaDelta said:

Given flying is a very perishable skill, and rotary is arguably more difficult than fixed-wing flying, what is the minimum number of hours a year you think a pilot requires to be safe? (not legally current)

Another good question...in my last job in the military I was predominantly flying a desk and probably averaged 5-10hrs a month. Despite being a qualified Captain and passing all my checks easily enough I knew I wasn't cutting it and stood down to fly as a co-pilot. The aircraft I was flying was going out of service aswell and even my co-pilot hours dried up to probably 3-5 a month at which point I grounded myself before I embarrassed myself. It depends on the role of course but for me, 10hrs a month was my tipping point where I felt I could no longer fly in command competently (I was safe) low level, NVG, formation, IFR etc. It's a bit different in the civilian world as it is clearly a much simpler job, but I would guess 5hrs a month for my current role is bare minimum. I think the legal requirement off the top of my head is 3 takeoffs and landings in 90 days....

Thanks.

One more - have you ever tried autogyros/gyrocopters? If you couldn't fly helicopters for work, would you spend your own money on them? Ok, that's two.

[Siko]

Castrol for a knave said:

You may have touched upon this already, but where are the hotspots for pilots these days? A couple of guys I know left the North Sea to work the African oil fields a few years ago and another is over in Denmark on renewables.

and another

Would you ever fly the old school piston engined stuff? Those things looked like death on a stick. Is there a classic helicopters thing - those Bell 47's look lovely but not when some thing goes wrong.

and another

Are Robinsons as dangerous as they reckon, or is it just a case of there's loads of them, doing lots of hours so they tend to have more incidents?

Loving your work - I'm a total heli nut. I live Shropshire, so a couple of my mates instruct at DHS Shawbury. I also like to tease the wife - her ex is an Apache instructor but she ended up with a short fat man with a square head.

Good question, I've seen quite a few pilots leave offshore for rewnewables or for the ME - corporate/oil & gas. But there do seem to be quite a variety of jobs in the helicopter world, we were affected by Covid but nowhere near as much as in the airline world. I only know one bloke flying in Africa and he has returned to the UK, it used to be a common place to work but for a variety of reasons it is no longer as popular. What I have seen become more prevalent in some of the more traditional overseas employment destinations for a helicopter pilot, is a desire to employ locals rather than expats. That's fair enough of course but it has reduced the positions available to us europeans.

I would love to fly a Bell 47 - something iconic about it probably the MASH imagery. Yeah I think the old school piston-engined ones are nowhere near as reliable as a gas turbine but as long as they are well looked after/serviced they should be just as safe as anything else. Yeah I think you hit the nail on the head about Robinsons - lots of them and flown by very inexperienced pilots mean lots of them get crashed. I have never flown them but have heard just good things from pilots I know who learnt or taught on them.

Haha well I'm sure your wife made the right choice over the Apache dude I had a job offer to go back to Shawbury as an instructor a few years back but decided to stay flying offshore, I was really tempted tbh. I had a tour there for 3 years as an instructor and it was one of the most enjoyable times of my career, but I just felt that it was going back in time and things wouldn't be the same. I live in Shropshire still - fabulous place

Edited by Siko on Thursday 31st March 08:51

[Siko]

normalbloke said:

How long were you in the military for?
What was your total time rotary when you left, and your time now? Interesting to hear your memories of low monthly hours and feeling safe or not with currency. I heard very similar stories.
I was left seat observer/nav on a specific petrochemical pipeline survey. I had 2500 hours and about 100 hours unofficial stick time. I flew with ex mil of all colours, and was fortunate enough to have the flight experience I did. I also got to fly some interesting scenarios, including the Heathrow crossing. I did it from1999 until 2005 ish. Some great times, and the flying we did was all low level VFR, and we weren’t micro managed.

Hi mate - 17 1/2 years I was in (man and boy ), I left with 3200hrs from the military and i now have about 6500 hrs total with another 800 or so in full motion simulators. I have quite a bit less than a lot of my mates in the civilian world, but I did getting on for 6 years in the military in a mixed flying/ground based role, which killed my hours to about 100-150/year if that. When I joined the offshore world I averaged about 650 hrs/yr for 3 years then a succession of management/safety based roles increasingly took me out of the cockpit again. I rarely fly now tbh but stay current in the aircraft and keep my licence ticking over.

The pipeline job sounds really interesting and I would bet with your 100hrs stick time you're quite a handy pilot yourself! The Heathrow crossing used to be an absolute nightmare....holding in the high hover looking at a stack of jets on finals and then you'd get a garbled clearance in amongst all the other radio "Cross after the {insert name of sh*tty lo-cost bulgarian airline here}"....and you'd desperately try and work out which aircraft is the one you are cleared to cross behind. Normally it would be the one that had passed you and you had a massive rush to get out of the high hover and over the runway before the next one came! I used to hate it tbh.

[s2kjock]

When you drop workers off on a platform is it a case of one hungover load off, and one slightly smelly load on straightaway? Or do you shut down for a bit, wander about outside, have a fag, ask to use the toilet etc?

Related to that, do you refuel on platforms, or does that not happen?

[Siko]

LimaDelta said:

Thanks.

One more - have you ever tried autogyros/gyrocopters? If you couldn't fly helicopters for work, would you spend your own money on them? Ok, that's two.

haha no and no Although if I won the lottery I would buy myself a lovely EC135 with full IFR kit and fly my family to the continent. No need to pay for one of those expensive, whiny pilots

[Siko]

s2kjock said:

When you drop workers off on a platform is it a case of one hungover load off, and one slightly smelly load on straightaway? Or do you shut down for a bit, wander about outside, have a fag, ask to use the toilet etc?

Related to that, do you refuel on platforms, or does that not happen?

Hi mate, tends to be offload the passengers and normally take on fuel. You generally have enough to get there and back without refuelling and normally have to hold alternate fuel to reach another airfield. So the normal routine is land on, passengers leave, take fuel and look at the latest weathers, load the food bag with your meal, spill your coffee everywhere putting it in your cup holder (yes we have cupholders ), load the new passengers back up and takeoff. We tend to eat in the cruise sector on the way back (if there is time), I've been told by more than one passenger that they know everything is ok when they see the pilots getting the meal trays out

You can use the toilet and I sometimes do if I'm desperate or it's a long flight, but it's a bit of a pita as you often end up going down several flights of stairs and through huge doors trying to find it. Everyone is really nice and helpful though (honestly) but you just feel a bit of a knob wandering around trying to find a toilet! I've been stuck offshore for a night before and it was incredibly nice indeed - I think I was lucky with my choice of rig but I was hugely impressed.

[LimaDelta]

Siko said:

LimaDelta said:

Thanks.

One more - have you ever tried autogyros/gyrocopters? If you couldn't fly helicopters for work, would you spend your own money on them? Ok, that's two.

haha no and no Although if I won the lottery I would buy myself a lovely EC135 with full IFR kit and fly my family to the continent. No need to pay for one of those expensive, whiny pilots

Nice. We have a 155 at work.

[s2kjock]

really interesting thread, and thanks for insights. I have a few more questions .......

I always wondered what happens if there is a mechanical failure while you are on the platform or you have have had one in the air and do an emergency landing on a platform. Assuming you can't fix it with a lumphammer, how do you get an engineer out/parts etc?

And if it can't be "fixed by the roadside" and needs recovered, what then?

[Siko]

s2kjock said:

really interesting thread, and thanks for insights. I have a few more questions .......

I always wondered what happens if there is a mechanical failure while you are on the platform or you have have had one in the air and do an emergency landing on a platform. Assuming you can't fix it with a lumphammer, how do you get an engineer out/parts etc?

And if it can't be "fixed by the roadside" and needs recovered, what then?

My pleasure and thank you Yeah it gets expensive TBH. when i was stuck offshore there was no winching assets available (now rectified) so my company had to charter a winch equipped helicopter from a company at Humberside, they had to train our engineers and a replacement crew (we were out of hours) and then fly upto the platform. They winched down 2 engineers and 2 pilots, who fixed the snag (it was water ingress into a chip detector giving us a false indication) and the new pilots flew us all back. If a helicopter is proper broken then it is crane it out onto a ship and sail it back.

[ric p]

Siko said:

LimaDelta said:

Thanks.

One more - have you ever tried autogyros/gyrocopters? If you couldn't fly helicopters for work, would you spend your own money on them? Ok, that's two.

haha no and no Although if I won the lottery I would buy myself a lovely EC135 with full IFR kit and fly my family to the continent. No need to pay for one of those expensive, whiny pilots

If the pilot isn’t whining, he/she’s probably not happy! I think it is our natural state.

I fly an IFR EC135 for the Police after 21 years in the RN. Great machine, flies like a mini Lynx. Responsive, agile, powerful. And very reliable, most snags are annoying little electrical ones. Shaky vibrating helicopters are not very kind to electrical systems along with being out in all weathers. Most rotary machines struggle to be fully water tight.

The 135 would be a great touring machine. Quick, smooth and lots of space for a few people. But none of these gas turbines machines are cheap to run.

As for flying outside of work, I’ve always wondered if the Rotorway type thing would be fun as a back to basics game or whether you’d quickly become bored.

Apologies for the plug but this is our regional Twitter for what we get up to:

https://mobile.twitter.com/npassouthwest/with_repl...

[Siko]

ric p said:

If the pilot isn’t whining, he/she’s probably not happy! I think it is our natural state.

I fly an IFR EC135 for the Police after 21 years in the RN. Great machine, flies like a mini Lynx. Responsive, agile, powerful. And very reliable, most snags are annoying little electrical ones. Shaky vibrating helicopters are not very kind to electrical systems along with being out in all weathers. Most rotary machines struggle to be fully water tight.

The 135 would be a great touring machine. Quick, smooth and lots of space for a few people. But none of these gas turbines machines are cheap to run.

As for flying outside of work, I’ve always wondered if the Rotorway type thing would be fun as a back to basics game or whether you’d quickly become bored.

Apologies for the plug but this is our regional Twitter for what we get up to:

https://mobile.twitter.com/npassouthwest/with_repl...

Awesome - would love to do the Police job but I'm getting too old and senile to be up late at night doing exciting stuff I'll give you a follow on Tw@tter, cheers!

[RobbyJ]

I have another question if I may?

A few times I've noticed S92's on FR24 squawking 7700 whilst out over the sea, they then always (thankfully) make it back to an airport, usually where they were planning to go. Why is this, in my simple non pilots mind I'd have thought if it's bad enough to declare an emergency you'd just put it down on the first bit of dry land available?

I remember in a couple of my EC135 Air Ambulance flights we had a couple of software issues. Once the glass displays wouldn't boot up and we couldn't start up. The pilot got out, I was in the left seat, he tinkered with something under an access panel up near the engine on my side, got back in, fired it up and said "yeah that happens sometimes", I held onto my seat a little tighter on that flight back from Essex to Staverton.

On another flight there was some avionics issue and I had to break out my leatherman, the pilot access some panel under the nose of the aircraft, got stung by a wasp in the process but fixed whatever it was and again we were on our way with my confidence a little more eroded.

Edited by RobbyJ on Thursday 31st March 12:15

[wolfracesonic]

Two if I may, why do some helicopters have skids like Huey's, Jet Rangers and some have wheels like Blackhawks, Apaches; and second what do you think is the most intense, difficult/dangerous helicopter job, excluding the ones where you're being shot at?

[s2kjock]

Another couple from me.

You mentioned previously issues with landing on ships offshore. I always thought the helipads on the offshore vessels were for emergencies, but are they used for ship to platform transfers of equipment and personnel as well?



Navigation in good weather - is this more difficult offshore as unlike flying over land you have no reference points and all oilrigs must look pretty similar from a distance, or is it a case of just punching waypoints into a flight computer and leaving it to an autopilot so it is a bit academic?

[Siko]

RobbyJ said:

I have another question if I may?

A few times I've noticed S92's on FR24 squawking 7700 whilst out over the sea, they then always (thankfully) make it back to an airport, usually where they were planning to go. Why is this, in my simple non pilots mind I'd have thought if it's bad enough to declare an emergency you'd just put it down on the first bit of dry land available?

I remember in a couple of my EC135 Air Ambulance flights we had a couple of software issues. Once the glass displays wouldn't boot up and we couldn't start up. The pilot got out, I was in the left seat, he tinkered with something under an access panel up near the engine on my side, got back in, fired it up and said "yeah that happens sometimes", I held onto my seat a little tighter on that flight back from Essex to Staverton.

On another flight there was some avionics issue and I had to break out my leatherman, the pilot access some panel under the nose of the aircraft, got stung by a wasp in the process but fixed whatever it was and again we were on our way with my confidence a little more eroded.

Edited by RobbyJ on Thursday 31st March 12:15

It depend on what the emergency is and ATC may have asked you to squawk 7700 for conspicuity. For example you could be returning onshore and you get a malfunction requiring you to Land As Soon As Possible, but base could be socked in mist/fog and the safest way to Land ASAP is to shoot the ILS. Conversely, if you had a malfunction relating to the flying controls, you may not want to put it down on hilly slope somewhere. it's a judgement call at the end of the day.

You do get snags with modern aircraft that are easy to fix and sometimes just need a circuit breaker reset, so I imagine that's what your pilot did in the 135, but they are normally in the cockpit so I have no idea what he was doing in the engine

[RobbyJ]

Siko said:

It depend on what the emergency is and ATC may have asked you to squawk 7700 for conspicuity. For example you could be returning onshore and you get a malfunction requiring you to Land As Soon As Possible, but base could be socked in mist/fog and the safest way to Land ASAP is to shoot the ILS. Conversely, if you had a malfunction relating to the flying controls, you may not want to put it down on hilly slope somewhere. it's a judgement call at the end of the day.

You do get snags with modern aircraft that are easy to fix and sometimes just need a circuit breaker reset, so I imagine that's what your pilot did in the 135, but they are normally in the cockpit so I have no idea what he was doing in the engine

Thanks for the explanation on the emergencies, very much makes sense. I also read the G-LAWX incident report, wow! I also did some more internet sleuthing to see who the passengers were, very interesting.

Regarding the EC135, yeah I've got no idea what he was doing, it was some access panel high up somewhere up towards the rotor head, while I was a little disconcerted I was busy working on my laptop testing the helis air to ground data comms system.

[Siko]

wolfracesonic said:

Two if I may, why do some helicopters have skids like Huey's, Jet Rangers and some have wheels like Blackhawks, Apaches; and second what do you think is the most intense, difficult/dangerous helicopter job, excluding the ones where you're being shot at?

Good question, I don't know the answer but I think it is likely due to cost/complexity. If you designing a simple training aircraft you don't want the weight/cost/complexity of a retractable undercarriage when you can just weld on a bit of metal to the bottom

Also, for heavier helicopters having wheels allows you to ground taxy away from areas that could be affected by rotor downwash when you lift to the hover. Most airports require you to ground taxy from the ramp and you lift off to the hover on the runway. Sometimes in the Merlin we used to do running takeoffs if we were very heavy, I can't remember the exact procedure but I think we could go over our normal max AUW by another 900kgs or so if we did a running takeoff. Obviously you can't (well not easily!) do a running takeoff with a skidded aircraft. Essentially all modern heavy helicopters have wheels (I appreciate EC135 etc are skidded). You do also save some speed/fuel burn etc by raising your undercarriage, if our gear is stuck down there is a 7% effect on TAS or roughly 10kts at normal cruising speeds.

In terms of the most intense helicopter job outside the military I'd probably say Coastguard/SAR. I did a basic SAR course going through flying training (I wasn't very good at it to be honest!) and it was damn hard work but good fun too, so I'd go with that

[Theraveda]

Fascinating thread and many thanks to Siko.

[Siko]

s2kjock said:

Another couple from me.

You mentioned previously issues with landing on ships offshore. I always thought the helipads on the offshore vessels were for emergencies, but are they used for ship to platform transfers of equipment and personnel as well?

Navigation in good weather - is this more difficult offshore as unlike flying over land you have no reference points and all oilrigs must look pretty similar from a distance, or is it a case of just punching waypoints into a flight computer and leaving it to an autopilot so it is a bit academic?

By ships I mean mostly FPSOs which are massive and look like a cross between an oil tanker and an oil processing plant. I have landed on smaller ships but it is pretty unusual to be fair and tends to be a short-term contract. We never land on the helipads on the bows of the rig support vessels you see in Aberdeen harbour, that take supplies out. They are too small for us but conceivably you could land there in a smaller helicopter that has the appropriate 'D' value (basically diameter to fit the helipad).I don't think I have ever landed or picked anyone up who was transferred to/from a rig.

Navigation is 99% of the time takeoff, turn onto a radar heading after taking off, get handed across to radar, get identified by radar and then cleared direct to the platform. We have routes in our FMS and run it while flying the aircraft in heading mode, when we get cleared we just go "Direct To" the Rig and then couple the aircraft to the FMS. We have procedures in place to ensure we land at the correct destination but essentially it is "keep the FMS taking you to the rig and read the name before you land"

[Siko]

Theraveda said:

Fascinating thread and many thanks to Siko.

Thank you