Boat repair work advice
Discussion
Searider said:
Probably is cored but might not.
Definately take the bolts out to determine which is the case. If your core is soggy / crushed / decayed it's much more than a quick patch up job.
lets take the worst case scenareo and sufggest the whole roof is cored.Definately take the bolts out to determine which is the case. If your core is soggy / crushed / decayed it's much more than a quick patch up job.
Surely one remedy would be to cure all water ingress, dry out what remains of the core, drill a series of holes up into the roof and fill with expanding foam?
m0ssy said:
lets take the worst case scenareo and sufggest the whole roof is cored.
Surely one remedy would be to cure all water ingress, dry out what remains of the core, drill a series of holes up into the roof and fill with expanding foam?
That's a well-known way to firm up Freeman decks (original foam core crushes with age and heavy bSurely one remedy would be to cure all water ingress, dry out what remains of the core, drill a series of holes up into the roof and fill with expanding foam?
ds) - so must be totally wrong for yours 
A more interesting option of course is to sell the boat and buy a bigger one...
Simpo Two said:
m0ssy said:
lets take the worst case scenareo and sufggest the whole roof is cored.
Surely one remedy would be to cure all water ingress, dry out what remains of the core, drill a series of holes up into the roof and fill with expanding foam?
That's a well-known way to firm up Freeman decks (original foam core crushes with age and heavy bSurely one remedy would be to cure all water ingress, dry out what remains of the core, drill a series of holes up into the roof and fill with expanding foam?
ds) - so must be totally wrong for yours A more interesting option of course is to sell the boat and buy a bigger one...
d. 
Mossy if the core is wet then don't panic there are several solutions dependant on how big the area is but importantly don't just seal it back up as the problem will grow.
Unfortunately it appears that the majority of the roof is cored.
Pictures:
As you can see, it is sagging from the spanner to the edge, so canopy strength in that area is minimal
It has deteriorated completey around some of the bolt holes:
As you can see the water has ingressed through from the outer deck of the of the roof through the bolt holes in the rail and hardwood
I am also concerned that water may be ingressing through the vents
Anyway, had a chat to DE-MOTORVATOR last night
who suggested it maybe a big job and too much to do the fibre-glassing myself, however overnight have got myself motivated for the task.
Tonight I am going to cut holes in all of the sagging sections of the internal fibreglass skin and scrape out the wet gunky balsa stuff.
I then plan to patch over all the holes I have cut with fibreglass sheets, and when dry drill a few holes and fill with expanding foam and then filling the holes.
Questions:
1. Does this sound the right method?
2. Where do I buy this fibreglass stuff from?
3. Can anyone point me to good fibreglassing for beginners website?
4. Do I use standard expanding foam or is there a marine grade?
5. Should I remove all the vents too and re-seal?
Pictures:
As you can see, it is sagging from the spanner to the edge, so canopy strength in that area is minimal
It has deteriorated completey around some of the bolt holes:
As you can see the water has ingressed through from the outer deck of the of the roof through the bolt holes in the rail and hardwood
I am also concerned that water may be ingressing through the vents
Anyway, had a chat to DE-MOTORVATOR last night
who suggested it maybe a big job and too much to do the fibre-glassing myself, however overnight have got myself motivated for the task.Tonight I am going to cut holes in all of the sagging sections of the internal fibreglass skin and scrape out the wet gunky balsa stuff.
I then plan to patch over all the holes I have cut with fibreglass sheets, and when dry drill a few holes and fill with expanding foam and then filling the holes.
Questions:
1. Does this sound the right method?
2. Where do I buy this fibreglass stuff from?
3. Can anyone point me to good fibreglassing for beginners website?
4. Do I use standard expanding foam or is there a marine grade?
5. Should I remove all the vents too and re-seal?
80's built Colvic will be tough as old boots so have a crack at it and dont worry if it isnt perfect as the headliner will cover minor aesthetic issues.
The fix sounds appropiate and you should be able to get the resin and mat from any chandler near you (where is the boat). There is a marine grade expanding foam, again from the chandler and any hole drilled in a boat will let water in so Sika is your friend here but remember the water comes in from the oustide. I see a lot of over engineered fixes in the interior but still just bolt and washer done up tight on the exterior, so a bit of masking up and sealant outside does wonders. Most people dont stuff enough green water over the decks for sea water to be an issue, rain water is usually the bugger that seeps in.
I also know alot of people that spend far more time working on the boat on the hard than using it on the water, never a bad thing though, just an odd ratio.
The fix sounds appropiate and you should be able to get the resin and mat from any chandler near you (where is the boat). There is a marine grade expanding foam, again from the chandler and any hole drilled in a boat will let water in so Sika is your friend here but remember the water comes in from the oustide. I see a lot of over engineered fixes in the interior but still just bolt and washer done up tight on the exterior, so a bit of masking up and sealant outside does wonders. Most people dont stuff enough green water over the decks for sea water to be an issue, rain water is usually the bugger that seeps in.
I also know alot of people that spend far more time working on the boat on the hard than using it on the water, never a bad thing though, just an odd ratio.
Yachtworker said:
rain water is usually the bugger that seeps in.
When I had to break into my boat via the hatch (keys being at home, doh) although I refitted the hatch brackets perfectly in their former position, after 2-3 months a brown sticky resinous stain appeared inside on the hatch edge. Rainwater gets through microscopic gaps, hence ALWAYS seal properly. MOTORVATOR with an air of smugness said said:
I'm willing to bet you a pint of beer though that the deck is balsa cored as that is the norm rather an oddity.
Mould - release agent - Gelcoat - Glassfibre - Balsa core - Glassfibre.
Have you actually taken the Bolts out yet to see how thick the deck is? I reckon the bolts are loose because the core has crushed rather than them just unwinding themselves and the softening you talk about is the fact that the inner glassfibre isn't particularly thick. The strength comes from the composite.
Just wanted to mention I am available for beer most of the time. Mould - release agent - Gelcoat - Glassfibre - Balsa core - Glassfibre.
Have you actually taken the Bolts out yet to see how thick the deck is? I reckon the bolts are loose because the core has crushed rather than them just unwinding themselves and the softening you talk about is the fact that the inner glassfibre isn't particularly thick. The strength comes from the composite.
If you're going down the foam route then hunt out a two part expanding resin foam as it needs to be closed cell not open cell. That's the difference I was explaining last night from the B&Q approach. Plus the resin will adhere to each surface correctly to give the strength back. Bit of a bugger to get right as you need to judge how much expansion is going to take place just right.
Dependant on how extensive it is you could always just cut the whole inner away and glue either end core balsa or closed cell foam back and cover with a premade sheet of GRP mat just leaving the edges to glass in over your head.
MOTORVATOR said:
Just wanted to mention I am available for beer most of the time.
TBH K, I am going to use expanding foam in a can. I think it will be ok, as long as the area I am using it in is dry it should hopefully adhere to each surface. It will be easy for me to use, will go off hard and provide the strength.
Unless I am making a grave error?
m0ssy said:
MOTORVATOR said:
Just wanted to mention I am available for beer most of the time.
TBH K, I am going to use expanding foam in a can. I think it will be ok, as long as the area I am using it in is dry it should hopefully adhere to each surface. It will be easy for me to use, will go off hard and provide the strength.
Unless I am making a grave error?
Thing with GRP is it doesn't get any stronger, if it keeps flexing it will gradually degrade.
Only you can make that call mate as you've seen it we haven't.
And dont forget to employ the services of someone else to take the pictures of you with the hands / hair / curtains stuck to the ceiling.
If it was my boat I would cut out the fibre glass and foam core in the bad areas and for the future protection of any still o.k. areas where the bolts are drilled through in say circles of 150/200, then glass in marine grade ply patches thickness of 18mm, then to strengthen the roof area, I would glass in some more stringers, which would make the roof a lot stronger, and then refix/re-bolt as has been suggested.
You need to cut out the top skin in the affected areas, remove the rotten balsa core and replace, chamfer the edges of the hole and the top skin you previously cut out, and glass it back in.
West System is your friend.
A vacum pump would be usefull.
As prefiously mentioned, silicone is useless, as the seal doesn't last.
Also the core should be removed around holes and filled with epoxy to seal the edges of the core.
Fittings should be bedded on Polysulfide sealant.
Wessex resins (The U.K. west system people) do an excellent weekend course on fiberglass boat repair. It would be a good investment to get yourself along to it.
West System is your friend.
A vacum pump would be usefull.
As prefiously mentioned, silicone is useless, as the seal doesn't last.
Also the core should be removed around holes and filled with epoxy to seal the edges of the core.
Fittings should be bedded on Polysulfide sealant.
Wessex resins (The U.K. west system people) do an excellent weekend course on fiberglass boat repair. It would be a good investment to get yourself along to it.
Simpo Two said:
There is another option...
Pay a bloke to do it
Bloody captain sensible. I've already mentioned to Jon that if he hasn't played with fibreglass before it may be better to get a price off someone especially as it's overhead.Pay a bloke to do it
He's thought it through and decided he wants to give it a go, fair play to him.
We should just offer helpful advice from our experience.
What tripod would you recommend and being internal do you think he will need a full flash set up or will he get away with say a 2.8 lens?
And is there some sort of release that will activate from a man winking at it as his hands are tied up elsewhere or maybe a continuous timed release?
MOTORVATOR said:
What tripod would you recommend and being internal do you think he will need a full flash set up or will he get away with say a 2.8 lens? And is there some sort of release that will activate from a man winking at it as his hands are tied up elsewhere or maybe a continuous timed release?
1) Any tripod will do; it only has to last for one shot2) Defo a flash job; it will look nicer if it's bounced off the ceiling or nearby wall.
3) You can get triggers that respond to a hand clap but as his hands will be stuck to the ceiling he'll need one that works with shouting. Or possibly a beam-type trigger (as used for wildlife) that he might be able to activate by waving a leg. Or you could attend the scene, take the photo for him and then scamper off to upload it forgetting he's still stuck to the ceiling. That would save the need for a tripod.
Simpo Two said:
MOTORVATOR said:
What tripod would you recommend and being internal do you think he will need a full flash set up or will he get away with say a 2.8 lens? And is there some sort of release that will activate from a man winking at it as his hands are tied up elsewhere or maybe a continuous timed release?
1) Any tripod will do; it only has to last for one shot2) Defo a flash job; it will look nicer if it's bounced off the ceiling or nearby wall.
3) You can get triggers that respond to a hand clap but as his hands will be stuck to the ceiling he'll need one that works with shouting. Or possibly a beam-type trigger (as used for wildlife) that he might be able to activate by waving a leg. Or you could attend the scene, take the photo for him and then scamper off to upload it forgetting he's still stuck to the ceiling. That would save the need for a tripod.
Would you be available to do a photoshoot next weekend? Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff