Sailing Terminology - why on earth is it so silly?!
Discussion
Snoggledog said:
It's a langauge that allows us sailing folk to confuse the hell out of those land based people. On a related note then... Why is a bonnet on a car called a bonnet?? I don't see a ladies hat anywhere. Plenty of confusing terminology in cars, it's just that you know what they mean because you've learnt the language.
I disagree, every area of life has special terminology, but it is kept to a minimum in most areas. Most terms on cars have their basis in the English language, so they're easy to remember (a damper damps suspension out, a wishbone looks like a wishbone, understeer is where the car under.. steers.., toe in is obvious etc etc). In cycling we have 'cadence', which is logical and IIRC is the only unusual word to learn. In football, 'offside' means you're off your own side of the pitch, and a header is hitting a ball with err... your head! In contrast, sailing terms are seemingly totally unrelated, illogical and just confusing!s2art said:
RobM77 said:
s2art said:
pistonbroak said:
s2art said:
And BTW I would like to see you to come up with alternatives for some of thio terms.
OK.Port : LEFT
Starboard : RIGHT
AFT : BACK
BROW : FRONT
![laugh](/inc/images/laugh.gif)
This poor girl on the TV programme was trying to learn all this stuff and I just imagined me teaching her to drive a racing car. I could start straight away assuming she spoke English - no need to explain strange terminology - much more accessible. Maybe this is like when I'm making something in the garage and my Dad turns up and says "ah, I bet you don't know what that tool's called". The fact that I'm using it properly to do something (the end of it as far as I'm concerned!) doesn't appear to be the focal point at all!
RobM77 said:
s2art said:
RobM77 said:
s2art said:
pistonbroak said:
s2art said:
And BTW I would like to see you to come up with alternatives for some of thio terms.
OK.Port : LEFT
Starboard : RIGHT
AFT : BACK
BROW : FRONT
![laugh](/inc/images/laugh.gif)
This poor girl on the TV programme was trying to learn all this stuff and I just imagined me teaching her to drive a racing car. I could start straight away assuming she spoke English - no need to explain strange terminology - much more accessible. Maybe this is like when I'm making something in the garage and my Dad turns up and says "ah, I bet you don't know what that tool's called". The fact that I'm using it properly to do something (the end of it as far as I'm concerned!) doesn't appear to be the focal point at all!
Snoggledog said:
It's a langauge that allows us sailing folk to confuse the hell out of those land based people. On a related note then... Why is a bonnet on a car called a bonnet?? I don't see a ladies hat anywhere. Plenty of confusing terminology in cars, it's just that you know what they mean because you've learnt the language.
I thought it was a hood, but then that was a battleship. I need to lie down s2art said:
RobM77 said:
s2art said:
RobM77 said:
s2art said:
pistonbroak said:
s2art said:
And BTW I would like to see you to come up with alternatives for some of thio terms.
OK.Port : LEFT
Starboard : RIGHT
AFT : BACK
BROW : FRONT
![laugh](/inc/images/laugh.gif)
This poor girl on the TV programme was trying to learn all this stuff and I just imagined me teaching her to drive a racing car. I could start straight away assuming she spoke English - no need to explain strange terminology - much more accessible. Maybe this is like when I'm making something in the garage and my Dad turns up and says "ah, I bet you don't know what that tool's called". The fact that I'm using it properly to do something (the end of it as far as I'm concerned!) doesn't appear to be the focal point at all!
One more question, dooes each language have a raft of silly sailing terms? Are these terms all just English?
They are generally extremely precise terms, used to help manage a very complex machine.
Just a simple example: port does not mean left; it refers to the left hand side of a boat when facing forward (ie towards the bow) - if you are looking backwards (ie aft which btw doesn't mean back) the port side doesn't suddenly change. If its not a boat, say a buoy, it doesn't have a port or starboard side - they would be referred to as left or right.
If you are on a relatively simple boat with only two sails then yes, maybe it seems a bit unnecessarily complex, but the terms are completely transferrable between craft, it can be quite crucial that you pull up/let down the right "front sail".
Just a simple example: port does not mean left; it refers to the left hand side of a boat when facing forward (ie towards the bow) - if you are looking backwards (ie aft which btw doesn't mean back) the port side doesn't suddenly change. If its not a boat, say a buoy, it doesn't have a port or starboard side - they would be referred to as left or right.
If you are on a relatively simple boat with only two sails then yes, maybe it seems a bit unnecessarily complex, but the terms are completely transferrable between craft, it can be quite crucial that you pull up/let down the right "front sail".
andydavis said:
Boom is a good one as its the noise it makes when it smacks you on the head ![wink](/inc/images/wink.gif)
Also a boring bit of useless knowledge - the only bit of 'rope' on a boat is the bolt rope which guides the luff of the sail up the mast every other bit on the boat has its own name IIRC?
Some lines are referred to as ropes: A bell rope (to ring the bell), a bolt rope (attached to the edge of a sail for extra strength), a foot rope (on old square riggers for the sailors to stand on while reefing or furling the sails), and a tiller rope (to temporarily hold the tiller and keep the boat on course). A rope is what keeps an anchor attached to the boat when the anchor is in use. It may be chain, rope, or a combination of the two.![wink](/inc/images/wink.gif)
Also a boring bit of useless knowledge - the only bit of 'rope' on a boat is the bolt rope which guides the luff of the sail up the mast every other bit on the boat has its own name IIRC?
tertius said:
Just a simple example: port does not mean left; it refers to the left hand side of a boat when facing forward (ie towards the bow) - if you are looking backwards (ie aft which btw doesn't mean back) the port side doesn't suddenly change. If its not a boat, say a buoy, it doesn't have a port or starboard side - they would be referred to as left or right.
If you are on a relatively simple boat with only two sails then yes, maybe it seems a bit unnecessarily complex, but the terms are completely transferrable between craft, it can be quite crucial that you pull up/let down the right "front sail".
How about when you're windsurfing? It goes backwards and forwards (in effect) so does that mean that 'port' and 'starboard' change sides when it changes direction?If you are on a relatively simple boat with only two sails then yes, maybe it seems a bit unnecessarily complex, but the terms are completely transferrable between craft, it can be quite crucial that you pull up/let down the right "front sail".
![boxedin](/inc/images/boxedin.gif)
tertius said:
They are generally extremely precise terms, used to help manage a very complex machine.
Just a simple example: port does not mean left; it refers to the left hand side of a boat when facing forward (ie towards the bow) - if you are looking backwards (ie aft which btw doesn't mean back) the port side doesn't suddenly change. If its not a boat, say a buoy, it doesn't have a port or starboard side - they would be referred to as left or right.
If you are on a relatively simple boat with only two sails then yes, maybe it seems a bit unnecessarily complex, but the terms are completely transferrable between craft, it can be quite crucial that you pull up/let down the right "front sail".
A car is quite complex too, but if a mechanic is facing me whilst I'm sat in the car and I tell him I'm getting a vibration from the left hand side, he won't get confused! 'nearside' and 'offside' were abandoned in motor racing long ago as they were too confusing.Just a simple example: port does not mean left; it refers to the left hand side of a boat when facing forward (ie towards the bow) - if you are looking backwards (ie aft which btw doesn't mean back) the port side doesn't suddenly change. If its not a boat, say a buoy, it doesn't have a port or starboard side - they would be referred to as left or right.
If you are on a relatively simple boat with only two sails then yes, maybe it seems a bit unnecessarily complex, but the terms are completely transferrable between craft, it can be quite crucial that you pull up/let down the right "front sail".
All this makes me want to do form a team called 'plain english, plain sailing' and enter a yacht race to prove it all works
![biggrin](/inc/images/biggrin.gif)
s2art said:
andydavis said:
Boom is a good one as its the noise it makes when it smacks you on the head ![wink](/inc/images/wink.gif)
Also a boring bit of useless knowledge - the only bit of 'rope' on a boat is the bolt rope which guides the luff of the sail up the mast every other bit on the boat has its own name IIRC?
Some lines are referred to as ropes: A bell rope (to ring the bell), a bolt rope (attached to the edge of a sail for extra strength), a foot rope (on old square riggers for the sailors to stand on while reefing or furling the sails), and a tiller rope (to temporarily hold the tiller and keep the boat on course). A rope is what keeps an anchor attached to the boat when the anchor is in use. It may be chain, rope, or a combination of the two.![wink](/inc/images/wink.gif)
Also a boring bit of useless knowledge - the only bit of 'rope' on a boat is the bolt rope which guides the luff of the sail up the mast every other bit on the boat has its own name IIRC?
And why is it…. the crew always stick the lightest one out on the trapeze, who obviously is not making a blind bit of difference to the trim of boat so much so that when it luffs you go flying through the air with the greatest of speed and end up with a face full of sail? And it hurts :harrumph:
And then :rant on: you get shouted at for not getting off the sail quickly enough :rantoff: helloooooo, you fat gits…. you bl00dy get out on the trapeze and end up getting your hair wet :doubleharrumph:![wink](/inc/images/wink.gif)
![angel](/inc/images/angel.gif)
And then :rant on: you get shouted at for not getting off the sail quickly enough :rantoff: helloooooo, you fat gits…. you bl00dy get out on the trapeze and end up getting your hair wet :doubleharrumph:
![wink](/inc/images/wink.gif)
![angel](/inc/images/angel.gif)
RobM77 said:
dilbert said:
It's gotta be called something. I guess it's so people know what's happening, and what they're supposed to do. It's all part of the long lost art of division of labour. These day's one has to sit down for a week, read the ISO900 procedure, and then follow the flowchart just to realise that "Not my job, guv".
![hehe](/inc/images/hehe.gif)
So why can't I just jump on a boat and say "turn left away from the wind, loosen the main rope so the sail moves away from the wind, and then let the boat roll to about 45 degrees and sail at right angles to the wind'? Instead I have to say "turn to port, loosen the main sheet, heel a bit, stay on a broad reach'. I hope I got that right as I don't know one end of a boat from the other (just wikipedia at the moment!), but to me that just sounds plain stupid! If racing drivers had to use such weird terminology talking to the pit crew I'm sure we'd have some pretty badly set up cars out there!![hehe](/inc/images/hehe.gif)
![wink](/inc/images/wink.gif)
RobM77 said:
tertius said:
They are generally extremely precise terms, used to help manage a very complex machine.
Just a simple example: port does not mean left; it refers to the left hand side of a boat when facing forward (ie towards the bow) - if you are looking backwards (ie aft which btw doesn't mean back) the port side doesn't suddenly change. If its not a boat, say a buoy, it doesn't have a port or starboard side - they would be referred to as left or right.
If you are on a relatively simple boat with only two sails then yes, maybe it seems a bit unnecessarily complex, but the terms are completely transferrable between craft, it can be quite crucial that you pull up/let down the right "front sail".
A car is quite complex too, but if a mechanic is facing me whilst I'm sat in the car and I tell him I'm getting a vibration from the left hand side, he won't get confused! 'nearside' and 'offside' were abandoned in motor racing long ago as they were too confusing.Just a simple example: port does not mean left; it refers to the left hand side of a boat when facing forward (ie towards the bow) - if you are looking backwards (ie aft which btw doesn't mean back) the port side doesn't suddenly change. If its not a boat, say a buoy, it doesn't have a port or starboard side - they would be referred to as left or right.
If you are on a relatively simple boat with only two sails then yes, maybe it seems a bit unnecessarily complex, but the terms are completely transferrable between craft, it can be quite crucial that you pull up/let down the right "front sail".
All this makes me want to do form a team called 'plain english, plain sailing' and enter a yacht race to prove it all works
![biggrin](/inc/images/biggrin.gif)
A better example would be if you had to turn the crankshaft and open and close the valves and feed in the right amount of fuel at the right time, into the right cylinder; and move the gears in the gearbox to engage correctly; all done by hand whilst driving along, in traffic and all under instructions from the one person who can actually see everything that is happening/required at any moment - you'd probably need some pretty accurate and unambiguous terms to get that right.
andydavis said:
Boom is a good one as its the noise it makes when it smacks you on the head ![wink](/inc/images/wink.gif)
It only goes 'boom' if it is your own head it hits. Everybody else just hears a sort of 'crack' noise ![wink](/inc/images/wink.gif)
![hehe](/inc/images/hehe.gif)
Believe me
![yes](/inc/images/yes.gif)
And why do they call the topping lift a 'topping lift' and not a 'boom lift'?
![scratchchin](/inc/images/scratchchin.gif)
As in: "If you'd pulled the topping lift a bit tighter the boom wouldn't have hit my ruddy head!!!"
RobM77 said:
Snoggledog said:
It's a langauge that allows us sailing folk to confuse the hell out of those land based people. On a related note then... Why is a bonnet on a car called a bonnet?? I don't see a ladies hat anywhere. Plenty of confusing terminology in cars, it's just that you know what they mean because you've learnt the language.
I disagree, every area of life has special terminology, but it is kept to a minimum in most areas. Most terms on cars have their basis in the English language, so they're easy to remember (a damper damps suspension out, a wishbone looks like a wishbone, understeer is where the car under.. steers.., toe in is obvious etc etc). In cycling we have 'cadence', which is logical and IIRC is the only unusual word to learn. In football, 'offside' means you're off your own side of the pitch, and a header is hitting a ball with err... your head! In contrast, sailing terms are seemingly totally unrelated, illogical and just confusing!![nono](/inc/images/nono.gif)
When I used to train the runts at my sailing club I used to start off with a guided tour of the boat.
I used to say. This is the front, this is the back, that's left and that's right. That bit of metal sticking up in the air is the mast and the bit that smacks you on the head is the bit to keep clear of. Once you've got that sorted I'll teach you the proper names. The RYA bod who ran the course hated me as I threw the book in the bin. The kids loved me as I didn't do things by the book. Strangely some of them have gone on to great things. One's an Olympic hopeful in the Yngling class whilst others have gone on to sail at national / international level.
tertius said:
RobM77 said:
tertius said:
They are generally extremely precise terms, used to help manage a very complex machine.
Just a simple example: port does not mean left; it refers to the left hand side of a boat when facing forward (ie towards the bow) - if you are looking backwards (ie aft which btw doesn't mean back) the port side doesn't suddenly change. If its not a boat, say a buoy, it doesn't have a port or starboard side - they would be referred to as left or right.
If you are on a relatively simple boat with only two sails then yes, maybe it seems a bit unnecessarily complex, but the terms are completely transferrable between craft, it can be quite crucial that you pull up/let down the right "front sail".
A car is quite complex too, but if a mechanic is facing me whilst I'm sat in the car and I tell him I'm getting a vibration from the left hand side, he won't get confused! 'nearside' and 'offside' were abandoned in motor racing long ago as they were too confusing.Just a simple example: port does not mean left; it refers to the left hand side of a boat when facing forward (ie towards the bow) - if you are looking backwards (ie aft which btw doesn't mean back) the port side doesn't suddenly change. If its not a boat, say a buoy, it doesn't have a port or starboard side - they would be referred to as left or right.
If you are on a relatively simple boat with only two sails then yes, maybe it seems a bit unnecessarily complex, but the terms are completely transferrable between craft, it can be quite crucial that you pull up/let down the right "front sail".
All this makes me want to do form a team called 'plain english, plain sailing' and enter a yacht race to prove it all works
![biggrin](/inc/images/biggrin.gif)
A better example would be if you had to turn the crankshaft and open and close the valves and feed in the right amount of fuel at the right time, into the right cylinder; and move the gears in the gearbox to engage correctly; all done by hand whilst driving along, in traffic and all under instructions from the one person who can actually see everything that is happening/required at any moment - you'd probably need some pretty accurate and unambiguous terms to get that right.
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