Windfarms

[porkanut]

Biggest Con of the 21st centry, onshore industrial wind turbine plants arent green, they are inefficent (the total power generated by all the 2,300 turbines so far built in Britain, is less than that contributed by a single medium-size conventional power station) & offer negliable CO2 savings. The sheer scale of the developments can damage the enviornments where they are installed.

Without the Renewables Obligation Scheme introduced by the UK government (an almost 100 per cent subsidy, unwittingly paid by all of us through our electricity bills) the business case for industrial turbine plants does not stack up.

There are also serious health implications associated with Infrasound (Virbo Accoustic Disease) created by Industrial Wind Turbines, as per studies in Portugal (Mariana Alves-Pereira), France & the US. France have introduced a minmimum barrier of a 2k distance for industrial wind turbines from residential areas becuase of this.

Tons of research available on the web.

PN

[Nolar Dog]

Don't know anything about them, technically wise and not in the least bit interested either.
However, I live reasonably close to Scout Moor and think "it" looks great.

[Shay HTFC]

I quite like some of the farms.
The one on Ovenden Moor above Halifax is great in my eyes. Gives a bit of a twist to the skyline. There's plenty of non windmilled hilltop to look at if you get bored of them.

[Racingdude009]

They are pretty useful in helping to generate electricity in a sustainable manner much nicer to have windturbine next door than a Nuclear Power Station.

[fadeaway]

Racingdude009 said:

They are pretty useful in helping to generate electricity in a sustainable manner much nicer to have windturbine next door than a Nuclear Power Station.

Erm, not really. You still need as many nuclaer/gas/coal powerstations for when the wind doesn't blow!

[Jimbo.]

Whilst not the be-all and end-all the greenies would have us believe, they have their use, PLUS, they're kinda cool. Like a modern-day take on windmills, which the city-types seem to love seeing in "the countryside" oh-so-much. Having lived in amongst several in deepest-darkest Wales, you soon fail to notice them. Much like pylons 'n' stuff

[Apache]

Racingdude009 said:

They are pretty useful in helping to generate electricity in a sustainable manner much nicer to have windturbine next door than a Nuclear Power Station.

You'd need more than one windmill to produce the same as a nuclear power station though, about 23000 more

[Jasandjules]

Shay HTFC said:

I quite like some of the farms.
The one on Ovenden Moor above Halifax is great in my eyes. Gives a bit of a twist to the skyline. There's plenty of non windmilled hilltop to look at if you get bored of them.

I think that is a travesty.

[turbobloke]

Jasandjules said:

I think that is a travesty.

One of many - all pointless.

[Wacky Racer]

[elster]

speedy_thrills said:

Jasandjules said:

They don't actually produce that much leccie as I understand it. So large concrete monstrosities which actually have little benefit in the cost/benefit ratio IMHO. They kill loads of wildlife, which IMHO isn't all that helpful when one is supposed to be "saving the planet".

Well most are 2MW, the UK needs an average of 45,000MW so that's 22,500 turbines operating at peak performance.

I'd say you'd probably be looking at 10% of the land area being covered to output that sort of power. Which is fine as long as it's Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland IMO .

Which are these MOST?!!


I think you will find MOST are peak output of <1MW.

[turbobloke]

And most of the most manage 20% of plated capacity, maybe 30 up in favourable instances.

[zac510]

I see it as something we have to try in order to learn more about. We may make them more efficient or come up with a better solution in the future. You didn't give up walking after the first time you fell over, did you?

[elster]

zac510 said:

I see it as something we have to try in order to learn more about. We may make them more efficient or come up with a better solution in the future. You didn't give up walking after the first time you fell over, did you?

Yes but you also don't continue with a bad idea, when better are already out there. Don't compare wind energy to walking. This is like saying I listen to my music on 78's as this is the best way, eventually it will sound better than playing from digital sources.

[King Herald]

GreenV8S said:

Have you seen the size of the concrete base they're mounted on? They're mahoosive, and once those are in they're there for ever. The windmills on the other hand have a very limited life and will have to be decommissioned at great expense at the end of their life. If you've fallen for the 'carbon footprint' b*llocks and think these are going to save the planet then better think again because that windmill would have to run for hundreds of years to produce enough energy to be a net CO2 benefit, and of course they will actually only run for a few decades. We can't even afford to get rid of any of the non-renewable power supplies, because wind power isn't reliable. So, the existing plant will have to be kept up and running on standby, which is a huge waste of resources.

The economics of wind power would make it an obvious no-hoper, it is wasn't for publicly funded grants supporting these things.

I wonder how many decades of electricity production they need to generate before they have A, paid for themselves, B, paid off their 'carbon footprint'?

I put them in the same class as the cruddy little B&Q home windmill kits, that have a warranty for one year, but need to run for 12 years just to pay for their installation costs!!!!

And then there is the blurb about how you can 'sell' electricity back to the grid when you make too much????

Utter, utter, greeny tree hugger bol lox!!!!!

[zac510]

elster said:

Yes but you also don't continue with a bad idea, when better are already out there. Don't compare wind energy to walking. This is like saying I listen to my music on 78's as this is the best way, eventually it will sound better than playing from digital sources.

Yeah, I'm not endorsing wind power as the ultimate solution, just a small step towards society learning what renewable energy works and what doesn't by testing it on a large scale. I don't understnad your 78s analogy. Mine was just to say if at first you don't succeeed keep trying..
I'm not actually sure what's better renewable energy than wind power at the moment other. Sure there are a lot of things on the horizon (sorry!) but few seem to be as well developed as wind power, considering that wind power has been around for decades in various forms.

Edited by zac510 on Sunday 9th November 22:46

[Harsh]

I believe some of the comments above are slightly short sighted.

i tend to agree that current technology means they dont make a huge amount of sense in todays world.

however, looking at things long term......
improvements in technology will mean that power is generated more efficiently
and
higher unit power costs will mean the payback time for the units will fall considerably.

renewable energy is the future, how quickly it becomes the norm will depend on how quickly the development happens.

just my 2p

[elster]

zac510 said:

elster said:

Yes but you also don't continue with a bad idea, when better are already out there. Don't compare wind energy to walking. This is like saying I listen to my music on 78's as this is the best way, eventually it will sound better than playing from digital sources.

Yeah, I'm not endorsing wind power as the ultimate solution, just a small step towards society learning what renewable energy works and what doesn't by testing it on a large scale. ie at the time 78s were good, but they moved on!
I'm not actually sure what's better renewable energy than wind power at the moment other. Sure there are a lot of things on the horizon (sorry!) but few seem to be as well developed as wind power, considering that wind power has been around for decades in various forms.

yes it is the least efficient way of producing electricity. It is the reason why electric bills are going up as per unit it more expensive. They have a short shelf life. They are visually hideous. In fact they have no good points.

I'm all for research on future energy production, but research doesn't mean rolling out on a mass scale.

[zac510]

What's renewable and better though?

Nothing for the next 5 years probably.

[turbobloke]

zac510 said:

What's renewable and better though?

What's worse?