If you fly fast enough in one direction can you reach space?
Discussion
Zad said:
Yes, if you had a powerful enough gun or rocket motor, you could fire the projectile horizontally and it would end up in orbit. You would need to be doing 11.2km/s to do it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity
A "plane" couldn't fly into space, as flight depends on the air for support. High altitude spy planes depend on wing area (U2) or speed (Blackbird), but both have limits to the altitude they can achieve.Getting a plane to take off conventionally with enough fuel to reach the speeds required for escape velocity is very hard to do, and jet engines don't work in space. Which is why they use t
tting great rockets to get the space shuttle up there.AFAIK. No doubt someone will correct me.
If you have a means of propulsion which can operate in the vacuum of space (a rocket, essentially) then, yes, as long as thrust is constantly applied, the aircraft/rocket will keep climbing - and keep accelerating as well.
If the speed achieved is less than 17,500 mph, once the engine thrust stops (which is bound to happen at some point - usually when the fuel is exhausted), the aircraft/rocket will immediately start slowing down and will eventually fall back to earth.
If a speed of 17,500 mph is achieved, the aircraft/rocket would go into orbit around the earth - even when the engine has shut down.
If a speed of 25,000 mph is achieved, earth's gravity will not be able to hold on to it and it will go into orbit around the sun.
If it achieves a velocity of 37,000 mph, even the sun won't be able to hold it back and it will head out of the solar system never to come back.
Aircraft are not the best shape for flying into space. Wings are handy for flying within the atmosphere but the speed needed to go into orbit (17,500 mph) means that wings are an impediment due to the frictional atmospheric heating that a wing experiences at hypersonic speeds. The Shuttle demonstrates the technical difficulty of designing a vehicle that can operate in the vacuum of space and also have enough aerodynamic lift to allow it to fly in the atmosphere.
For practical purposes, speeds below 2,0000 mph are about the highest an atmospheric aircarft can handle without the need to start taking extra measures to protect the structure from heat induced damage.
That is why Concorde was limited to 1,450 mph.
2,000 mph is WAY below what is needed to achieve orbital speeds.
If the speed achieved is less than 17,500 mph, once the engine thrust stops (which is bound to happen at some point - usually when the fuel is exhausted), the aircraft/rocket will immediately start slowing down and will eventually fall back to earth.
If a speed of 17,500 mph is achieved, the aircraft/rocket would go into orbit around the earth - even when the engine has shut down.
If a speed of 25,000 mph is achieved, earth's gravity will not be able to hold on to it and it will go into orbit around the sun.
If it achieves a velocity of 37,000 mph, even the sun won't be able to hold it back and it will head out of the solar system never to come back.
Aircraft are not the best shape for flying into space. Wings are handy for flying within the atmosphere but the speed needed to go into orbit (17,500 mph) means that wings are an impediment due to the frictional atmospheric heating that a wing experiences at hypersonic speeds. The Shuttle demonstrates the technical difficulty of designing a vehicle that can operate in the vacuum of space and also have enough aerodynamic lift to allow it to fly in the atmosphere.
For practical purposes, speeds below 2,0000 mph are about the highest an atmospheric aircarft can handle without the need to start taking extra measures to protect the structure from heat induced damage.
That is why Concorde was limited to 1,450 mph.
2,000 mph is WAY below what is needed to achieve orbital speeds.
deeen said:
No, horizontal is a flat plane. Or should that be plan?
It's all relative.Horizontal.
A Plane.
Velocity
All are relative to something. As far as we experience it Horizontal could be relative to one's desk but is usually something considered at 90 degrees to vertical. i.e. goverened by gravity.
Eric Mc said:
If you have a means of propulsion which can operate in the vacuum of space (a rocket, essentially) then, yes, as long as thrust is constantly applied, the aircraft/rocket will keep climbing - and keep accelerating as well.
If the speed achieved is less than 17,500 mph, once the engine thrust stops (which is bound to happen at some point - usually when the fuel is exhausted), the aircraft/rocket will immediately start slowing down and will eventually fall back to earth.
If a speed of 17,500 mph is achieved, the aircraft/rocket would go into orbit around the earth - even when the engine has shut down.
If a speed of 25,000 mph is achieved, earth's gravity will not be able to hold on to it and it will go into orbit around the sun.
If it achieves a velocity of 37,000 mph, even the sun won't be able to hold it back and it will head out of the solar system never to come back.
Talking of escape velocities is confusing. Say I build a stack of bricks by standing on the top and hauling the bricks up using an electric motor. Eventually I could reach "space". Yet my velocity would be bugger all. Could a rocket with "unlimited" fuel not do the same thing? So long as it continues to move "up" even if only at 1 inch an hour, would it not eventually escape the earths pull? Why does it need those high speeds?If the speed achieved is less than 17,500 mph, once the engine thrust stops (which is bound to happen at some point - usually when the fuel is exhausted), the aircraft/rocket will immediately start slowing down and will eventually fall back to earth.
If a speed of 17,500 mph is achieved, the aircraft/rocket would go into orbit around the earth - even when the engine has shut down.
If a speed of 25,000 mph is achieved, earth's gravity will not be able to hold on to it and it will go into orbit around the sun.
If it achieves a velocity of 37,000 mph, even the sun won't be able to hold it back and it will head out of the solar system never to come back.
Munter said:
Eric Mc said:
If you have a means of propulsion which can operate in the vacuum of space (a rocket, essentially) then, yes, as long as thrust is constantly applied, the aircraft/rocket will keep climbing - and keep accelerating as well.
If the speed achieved is less than 17,500 mph, once the engine thrust stops (which is bound to happen at some point - usually when the fuel is exhausted), the aircraft/rocket will immediately start slowing down and will eventually fall back to earth.
If a speed of 17,500 mph is achieved, the aircraft/rocket would go into orbit around the earth - even when the engine has shut down.
If a speed of 25,000 mph is achieved, earth's gravity will not be able to hold on to it and it will go into orbit around the sun.
If it achieves a velocity of 37,000 mph, even the sun won't be able to hold it back and it will head out of the solar system never to come back.
Talking of escape velocities is confusing. Say I build a stack of bricks by standing on the top and hauling the bricks up using an electric motor. Eventually I could reach "space". Yet my velocity would be bugger all. Could a rocket with "unlimited" fuel not do the same thing? So long as it continues to move "up" even if only at 1 inch an hour, would it not eventually escape the earths pull? Why does it need those high speeds?If the speed achieved is less than 17,500 mph, once the engine thrust stops (which is bound to happen at some point - usually when the fuel is exhausted), the aircraft/rocket will immediately start slowing down and will eventually fall back to earth.
If a speed of 17,500 mph is achieved, the aircraft/rocket would go into orbit around the earth - even when the engine has shut down.
If a speed of 25,000 mph is achieved, earth's gravity will not be able to hold on to it and it will go into orbit around the sun.
If it achieves a velocity of 37,000 mph, even the sun won't be able to hold it back and it will head out of the solar system never to come back.
However, the speed achievable in the atmosphere is restricted by aerodynamic load and atmospheric frictional heating limitations so the acceleration starts off slowly so that by the time the proper orbital type velocities are obtained, the spacecraft is outside the atmosphere.
Next time a Shuttle lifts of, listen catrefully to the data relayed by the Announcer. They give updates on speed and altitude as the Shuttle heads for space and you can get a good idea of the speeds required.
Geting above the atmosphere is not going to allow you to get into space and stay there. Speed is the key.
Edited by Eric Mc on Tuesday 11th January 11:11
skilly1 said:
comedy dave said:
It's meant to say space but maybe the title was too long.
So, if you were in a plan & you went vertically up say 1.5 miles, then flew horizontally you WOULD eventually end up in space?
Could be wrong - but doesn't horizontal relate to earth? There is no horizontal in space. So you would just keep going around the earth.So, if you were in a plan & you went vertically up say 1.5 miles, then flew horizontally you WOULD eventually end up in space?
comedy dave said:
If your on the ground, then you go up however far to "miss a mountain".
Then flew directly straight ahead is it possible to get to space?
Oh, I get it, it's all relative, definition of "horizontal":Then flew directly straight ahead is it possible to get to space?
"parallel to or in the plane of the horizon or a base line"
While in an image of the earth from outer space, it may seem "horizontal", but in the plane it's actually "up".
If you drive your car for 1000miles, you don't go "down", do you? Yet you stay on the surface of the earth?
ZesPak said:
comedy dave said:
If your on the ground, then you go up however far to "miss a mountain".
Then flew directly straight ahead is it possible to get to space?
Oh, I get it, it's all relative, definition of "horizontal":Then flew directly straight ahead is it possible to get to space?
"parallel to or in the plane of the horizon or a base line"
While in an image of the earth from outer space, it may seem "horizontal", but in the plane it's actually "up".
If you drive your car for 1000miles, you don't go "down", do you? Yet you stay on the surface of the earth?
scorp said:
ZesPak said:
comedy dave said:
If your on the ground, then you go up however far to "miss a mountain".
Then flew directly straight ahead is it possible to get to space?
Oh, I get it, it's all relative, definition of "horizontal":Then flew directly straight ahead is it possible to get to space?
"parallel to or in the plane of the horizon or a base line"
While in an image of the earth from outer space, it may seem "horizontal", but in the plane it's actually "up".
If you drive your car for 1000miles, you don't go "down", do you? Yet you stay on the surface of the earth?
While actually, in the plane it would seem as "up", because "straight" is bound to the earth's gravity.
Mr E said:
JonnyFive said:
Think OP means this;
Why bother going up first?Sufficiently large amount of initial shove = orbit or escape.
On the moon or other airless body, you could indeed establish an orbit at a very low altitude, as long as you were high enough to miss any mountains.
If you just went straight up, unless you could completely escape the earth's gravity, you'd just fall back down again. And you'd end up in some god-awful hyperbolic orbit around the sun. As Eric says, you need to get the orbital (horizontal) speed to stay up. Most rockets launch from the equator because the earth's rotation gives a good head start to getting to that speed.
ZesPak said:
I know, I was talking to the op about the relativity of "horizontal". He says: a plane flies straight/horizontal in 1 direction, will it leave the atmosphere.
While actually, in the plane it would seem as "up", because "straight" is bound to the earth's gravity.
Depends on how you measure straight. Straight with a spirit gauge = follows curve, straight with a laser = goes into space.While actually, in the plane it would seem as "up", because "straight" is bound to the earth's gravity.
From my own understanding (maybe wrong) a plane doesn't strictly go straight either, it follows the horizon which is on a curve.
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