Renovating an old wooden sports boat, am I mad?
Discussion
Today's update. I need epoxy! Had a set of 'fast' epoxy so thought I'd use it up on the frames, and get some West Systems stuff for the cold moulding. But the stuff I've got is past it's sell-by date, so I'm certainly not going to risk using it on important stuff like frames.
I'm not sure if Wessex has a trade counter, but if they do I'll pick some up tomorrow. Failing that, I'll have to order it online and wait....
More pics (I got the hood frame out to take a pic and forgot! Will do it tomorrow).
Given I've had some spare time, I made up all the gussets and then sanded them to a nice rounded finish.
To give you an idea, this is how useful the table router is. You can rough cut, VERY quickly, all of the parts. No need to worry about getting it wrong, they just need to be rough outlines and larger than the template. Quick and easy jigsaw work, took about 10 minutes to cut them out of ply.
I have a 1 1/2" router bit, so can cut about 1" of material at once. The ply is 1/2", so that's two parts at once. Screw the former to a pair of rough cut parts.
You can see how rough the parts are compared to the template (template is at the bottom here). You can see the guide on the router bit at the bottom, this lines up with the template.
You end up with 2 x parts identical to the template part. Place the part on the second two parts, repeat, and there are 4 x gussets ready for each frame.
Doing it this way means you end up with 4 x totally identical gussets ready to line up on the frames. A bit of light sanding to take the rough edges off is all they need.
I made 28 gussets in about 45 minutes, which is so much quicker than trying to do them individually. They're also completely identical so makes it much quicker and easier when assembling the frames.
If you ever wanted to see what nearly £600 worth of screws and nails looks like, this is it. It's not even half of what I need, but I'm hoping to use stainless to assemble and then remove when epoxy sets (where possible). I'll only use the silicon bronze where they'll actually have to stay in the timber after the boat is finished, so the gusset nails, transom beams, frame to motor stringer coach bolts, etc. will all be silicon bronze. VERY expensive, but the only material that will last a lifetime in salt water.
So, not very exciting so far I'm afraid, it's all parts and cutting (which I'm getting a little bored of myself now). With epoxy in hand, it'll start to get a bit more exciting.
I'm not sure if Wessex has a trade counter, but if they do I'll pick some up tomorrow. Failing that, I'll have to order it online and wait....
More pics (I got the hood frame out to take a pic and forgot! Will do it tomorrow).
Given I've had some spare time, I made up all the gussets and then sanded them to a nice rounded finish.
To give you an idea, this is how useful the table router is. You can rough cut, VERY quickly, all of the parts. No need to worry about getting it wrong, they just need to be rough outlines and larger than the template. Quick and easy jigsaw work, took about 10 minutes to cut them out of ply.
I have a 1 1/2" router bit, so can cut about 1" of material at once. The ply is 1/2", so that's two parts at once. Screw the former to a pair of rough cut parts.
You can see how rough the parts are compared to the template (template is at the bottom here). You can see the guide on the router bit at the bottom, this lines up with the template.
You end up with 2 x parts identical to the template part. Place the part on the second two parts, repeat, and there are 4 x gussets ready for each frame.
Doing it this way means you end up with 4 x totally identical gussets ready to line up on the frames. A bit of light sanding to take the rough edges off is all they need.
I made 28 gussets in about 45 minutes, which is so much quicker than trying to do them individually. They're also completely identical so makes it much quicker and easier when assembling the frames.
If you ever wanted to see what nearly £600 worth of screws and nails looks like, this is it. It's not even half of what I need, but I'm hoping to use stainless to assemble and then remove when epoxy sets (where possible). I'll only use the silicon bronze where they'll actually have to stay in the timber after the boat is finished, so the gusset nails, transom beams, frame to motor stringer coach bolts, etc. will all be silicon bronze. VERY expensive, but the only material that will last a lifetime in salt water.
So, not very exciting so far I'm afraid, it's all parts and cutting (which I'm getting a little bored of myself now). With epoxy in hand, it'll start to get a bit more exciting.
Not sure you'd want too with a wooden boat and your local to the Solent.
With the investment in time, passion and energy, driving a 23ft wooden boat along the road, launching & recovering could be challenging especially if your short handed or handed with how shall we say "an audience". Have you considered dry stacking it?
With the investment in time, passion and energy, driving a 23ft wooden boat along the road, launching & recovering could be challenging especially if your short handed or handed with how shall we say "an audience". Have you considered dry stacking it?
Edited by OneDs on Tuesday 21st January 09:11
OneDs said:
driving a 23ft wooden boat along the road, launching & recovering could be challenging especially if your short handed or handed with how shall we say "an audience".
Ooh now that's an idea... an official PH Jolly to the launching! Organised coaches, free lunch, champers...
I'm set up for self-launching!
I've got an electric winch on the back of the Landcruiser with a remote. I use it for launching the jet boats.
Back up to edge of slipway, chock trailer wheels.
Clip winch to trailer.
Detach trailer from truck.
Jump in boat, winch away, park boat.
Winch back in, right up to the hitch, drive away.
Doing it this way means the truck wheels never even get wet.
I've got an electric winch on the back of the Landcruiser with a remote. I use it for launching the jet boats.
Back up to edge of slipway, chock trailer wheels.
Clip winch to trailer.
Detach trailer from truck.
Jump in boat, winch away, park boat.
Winch back in, right up to the hitch, drive away.
Doing it this way means the truck wheels never even get wet.
I went to the Wessex Resins factory yesterday, they have a small trade counter in reception. A little more expensive than it's possible to buy online, but I got some excellent advice on which products to use so worth every penny.
I have a feeling my resin bill is going to be big though. £180 on some resin, hardener and some filling stuff that you should use for cold moulding. The guy recommended using a little notched trowel thing as well, a bit like tiling, which makes a lot of sense. Bought a set of pumps too, so mixing will be a doddle. From a rough guesstimate, I'm going to need at least four times more again.
So I need to add about £800 to my build costs for the epoxy. Not the end of the world, but quite a significant amount on the total.
I'm in for about £3500 so far. Big things left to purchase, engine, bulk of the epoxy, fittings (rudder, prop shaft, fuel tank, etc), covering board (mahogany). I should have enough timber to do the bulk of the build though.
No progress last night, I had to put a jeep together for a customer and it took hours. Going to try and get some frames made today though.
I have a feeling my resin bill is going to be big though. £180 on some resin, hardener and some filling stuff that you should use for cold moulding. The guy recommended using a little notched trowel thing as well, a bit like tiling, which makes a lot of sense. Bought a set of pumps too, so mixing will be a doddle. From a rough guesstimate, I'm going to need at least four times more again.
So I need to add about £800 to my build costs for the epoxy. Not the end of the world, but quite a significant amount on the total.I'm in for about £3500 so far. Big things left to purchase, engine, bulk of the epoxy, fittings (rudder, prop shaft, fuel tank, etc), covering board (mahogany). I should have enough timber to do the bulk of the build though.
No progress last night, I had to put a jeep together for a customer and it took hours. Going to try and get some frames made today though.
maser_spyder said:
I went to the Wessex Resins factory yesterday, they have a small trade counter in reception. A little more expensive than it's possible to buy online, but I got some excellent advice on which products to use so worth every penny.
I have a feeling my resin bill is going to be big though. £180 on some resin, hardener and some filling stuff that you should use for cold moulding. The guy recommended using a little notched trowel thing as well, a bit like tiling, which makes a lot of sense. Bought a set of pumps too, so mixing will be a doddle. From a rough guesstimate, I'm going to need at least four times more again. So I need to add about £800 to my build costs for the epoxy. Not the end of the world, but quite a significant amount on the total.
I'm in for about £3500 so far. Big things left to purchase, engine, bulk of the epoxy, fittings (rudder, prop shaft, fuel tank, etc), covering board (mahogany). I should have enough timber to do the bulk of the build though.
No progress last night, I had to put a jeep together for a customer and it took hours. Going to try and get some frames made today though.
What do you think it's going to cost all up?I have a feeling my resin bill is going to be big though. £180 on some resin, hardener and some filling stuff that you should use for cold moulding. The guy recommended using a little notched trowel thing as well, a bit like tiling, which makes a lot of sense. Bought a set of pumps too, so mixing will be a doddle. From a rough guesstimate, I'm going to need at least four times more again.
So I need to add about £800 to my build costs for the epoxy. Not the end of the world, but quite a significant amount on the total.I'm in for about £3500 so far. Big things left to purchase, engine, bulk of the epoxy, fittings (rudder, prop shaft, fuel tank, etc), covering board (mahogany). I should have enough timber to do the bulk of the build though.
No progress last night, I had to put a jeep together for a customer and it took hours. Going to try and get some frames made today though.
MOTORVATOR said:
Fantastic! Blundering idiots.Eleven said:
What do you think it's going to cost all up?
It'll depend quite a lot on the engine choice. If I go for a new, crate engine like a 350 or 377 Mag, that's going to be a lot more expensive than a second hand unit or something from a scrapper.Total timber around £4000. Fittings, prop shaft, etc. around £3000. Upholstery £2000. Epoxy and fibreglass £2000. Screws and nails £1000. Tools (might as well add them in) £1500. Trailer £2000.
I make that about £16000 with some room for error, plus the engine.
Might add some electronics too, not sure yet.
So, about £20 - £25k all-in.
Oh, labour, 600 hours @ £150 p/h, £90k.
maser_spyder said:
Eleven said:
What do you think it's going to cost all up?
It'll depend quite a lot on the engine choice. If I go for a new, crate engine like a 350 or 377 Mag, that's going to be a lot more expensive than a second hand unit or something from a scrapper.Total timber around £4000. Fittings, prop shaft, etc. around £3000. Upholstery £2000. Epoxy and fibreglass £2000. Screws and nails £1000. Tools (might as well add them in) £1500. Trailer £2000.
I make that about £16000 with some room for error, plus the engine.
Might add some electronics too, not sure yet.
So, about £20 - £25k all-in.
Oh, labour, 600 hours @ £150 p/h, £90k.
Fishtigua said:
You could just sheath the outside of the hull with a light fibreglass layer and epoxy the bugger. Looks like it has been varnished but is leak proof and durable.
You got it. Once I have a mahogany layer, the next step is a final rub down to make it perfectly flat. Then lay up a single (maybe two on the bottom where it won't be seen) layer of 6oz fibreglass. It's effectively 'clear', but adds a huge amount of strength and abrasion resistance, well worth doing. Then a float coat on top to make it nice and flat, and finish with varnish or something to make it UV proof.By the time I get that far (I'm a long, long way at the moment), I'll probably be a bit more experienced with epoxy so I'm not too worried about the final coat. I'll possibly spray it with varnish, quick and effective, easy to do six or seven coats. I've got the facilities to do this in the workshop, so might as well use them.
Made some frames today, will post some pics when they're all done.
Motor stringers next, then it'll actually start to take some shape at last.
Progress report.
Frames all made, as well as adding the deck beams and scribing all the setup lines and carling points on the frames to make life easier later on. Apart from a small bit of tidying up, the frames are ready to go once the epoxy cures.
Motor stringers next, this should be fairly easy. I'll clamp them together and work down the line, cutting the notches for the frames.
Next will be to get the build jig set up and cut some blocking to fix the frames in place, then on to keel, chine logs, battens, etc.
It's coming along nicely.
Frames all made, as well as adding the deck beams and scribing all the setup lines and carling points on the frames to make life easier later on. Apart from a small bit of tidying up, the frames are ready to go once the epoxy cures.
Motor stringers next, this should be fairly easy. I'll clamp them together and work down the line, cutting the notches for the frames.
Next will be to get the build jig set up and cut some blocking to fix the frames in place, then on to keel, chine logs, battens, etc.
It's coming along nicely.
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