Sir Ben & the Americas Cup
Discussion
te, boat too heavy, too much weight in arse " so there you have it. Tyre Smoke said:
No idea. But it is very poignant that Ben Ainslie is an unbeatable single handed sailor and absolutely ineffectual as a skipper of a crew.
I have no basis for thinking this, but he may well be a class act in the Vendee. What do you think pequod?
He wouldn't be a class act in the Vendee. Open 60s, and long term offshore, are not Ben's thing at all. I have no basis for thinking this, but he may well be a class act in the Vendee. What do you think pequod?
He's a world class tactician (see 34th America's Cup where he came onboard and turned the tide to win eight races in a row) and unmatched in terms of sailing single handed and relying on himself. But he's a lone wolf - anyone who has met him would say that he has tremendous gravitas but doesn't share the same level of charisma that other skippers at this level might have.
But, he's totally capable of winning the AC - he just doesn't have the boat for it this time.
Tyre Smoke said:
No idea. But it is very poignant that Ben Ainslie is an unbeatable single handed sailor and absolutely ineffectual as a skipper of a crew.
I have no basis for thinking this, but he may well be a class act in the Vendee. What do you think pequod?
Would love to see him in the Vendee, but the skills are very different. I have no basis for thinking this, but he may well be a class act in the Vendee. What do you think pequod?
His success was in Lasers and Finns where you can make a difference with a twitch of your finger or bum cheek and the only communication you need is brain - hand.
AC is about match racing and crew teamwork, none of which Ben has much experience in, although his battle with Roger Scheidt in the 2000 Olympics was pretty close to match racing.
VG is long distance offshore single handing, which Ben has no experience in at all, although maybe easier to acquire than AC skills.
A really great book on the AC and what you need to win is ‘Born to Win’ by John Bertrand (Skipper of the Australian AC winner in 1983 ).
El stovey said:
AlexS said:
It's back on Friday with the Prada Cup.
Sky are showing the racing on Sky Sports Mix, live at 2am and then with repeats at 9am and 5pm.
The GB boat has been doing much better since before Christmas. Sky are showing the racing on Sky Sports Mix, live at 2am and then with repeats at 9am and 5pm.
Looking forwards to some (hopefully) closer GB races
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/1239233...
El stovey said:
What a phenomenal turnaround from pre Christmas for Ineos team U.K.
Indeed - I watched all of the practice and other races and at no point did Ineos ever seem competitive (even briefly). It's hard to believe that they have gone from looking like stone cold last would have been a good result to winning 2 from 2....Good stuff.
I'd love to know more about any boat changes that they have made - on commentary one of the earlier races, it was said that Ineos had used all of their permitted foil changes and that there were fundamental hull problems (keel width) - seems unlikely that these have been resolved in 2 weeks so I'd imagine that it is still going to be tough going.
fat80b said:
Indeed - I watched all of the practice and other races and at no point did Ineos ever seem competitive (even briefly).
It's hard to believe that they have gone from looking like stone cold last would have been a good result to winning 2 from 2....Good stuff.
I'd love to know more about any boat changes that they have made - on commentary one of the earlier races, it was said that Ineos had used all of their permitted foil changes and that there were fundamental hull problems (keel width) - seems unlikely that these have been resolved in 2 weeks so I'd imagine that it is still going to be tough going.
I watched the youtube NZ feed. They highlighted changes to the foils, they are now smooth with where as previously joints, etc were visable. It's hard to believe that they have gone from looking like stone cold last would have been a good result to winning 2 from 2....Good stuff.
I'd love to know more about any boat changes that they have made - on commentary one of the earlier races, it was said that Ineos had used all of their permitted foil changes and that there were fundamental hull problems (keel width) - seems unlikely that these have been resolved in 2 weeks so I'd imagine that it is still going to be tough going.
Apparently (according to the feed) the UK have been doing a lot of camera work on them to see how they are performing. The assumption is previously they weren't working as epxected but have had some changes so now are.
fat80b said:
Indeed - I watched all of the practice and other races and at no point did Ineos ever seem competitive (even briefly).
It's hard to believe that they have gone from looking like stone cold last would have been a good result to winning 2 from 2....Good stuff.
I'd love to know more about any boat changes that they have made - on commentary one of the earlier races, it was said that Ineos had used all of their permitted foil changes and that there were fundamental hull problems (keel width) - seems unlikely that these have been resolved in 2 weeks so I'd imagine that it is still going to be tough going.
Commentators (may have been Shirley) hinted that they had changed:It's hard to believe that they have gone from looking like stone cold last would have been a good result to winning 2 from 2....Good stuff.
I'd love to know more about any boat changes that they have made - on commentary one of the earlier races, it was said that Ineos had used all of their permitted foil changes and that there were fundamental hull problems (keel width) - seems unlikely that these have been resolved in 2 weeks so I'd imagine that it is still going to be tough going.
a) the foils by fairing them and she also said about sealing them. They said in the earlier races you could see water coming out of them when they lifted them up. They've also gone from red to black but not sure if there is any significance to that other than the tin of paint they had open at the time but it was certainly more difficult to see the details of the black foils from the onboard shots in todays racing.
b) rudder, maybe its permissible to change as not classed as one of the main foils. Could have got shorter or longer and size of foil changed to reduce drag/increase lift?
c) mast, whether they had a different stiffness section available ready to slot in or have modified the bend or stiffness of the one they already had thats pretty good going in 3 weeks
d) sails, again may have had different cut sails lying around or altered the ones in use
e) they have added an aerodynamic hump in front of the grinders on each side so may be other hull changes as well.
Interesting that they said in commentary that INEOS were using a size smaller jib than the other boats so they must have been confident they could get the lift they needed with the reduced power from the smaller sails while utilising the reduced drag (from the sails) for higher top speed perhaps.
As a Kiwi who's been in the UK for 25 years, I'll say the America's Cups needs Ben & Team INEOS.
The Italians have got a bit arrogant & punchy and the NYYC threatens to take the AC back to the dark ages so that the fat old men who pay for these campaigns can sail on a boat that's within their capabilities.
The NYYC were a terrible trustee of the cup for the 132 years they held it. Alan Bond's victory in '83 set the cup free. I'd hate to see it return to NY.
We definitely need three strong contenders.
Luna Rossa has been pushing the gamesmanship thing to the brink (85 applications to the Arbitration Panel).
It's interesting to note that every challenging skipper, apart from Jimmy Spithill, has sailed for the current defender!
The Italians have got a bit arrogant & punchy and the NYYC threatens to take the AC back to the dark ages so that the fat old men who pay for these campaigns can sail on a boat that's within their capabilities.
The NYYC were a terrible trustee of the cup for the 132 years they held it. Alan Bond's victory in '83 set the cup free. I'd hate to see it return to NY.
We definitely need three strong contenders.
Luna Rossa has been pushing the gamesmanship thing to the brink (85 applications to the Arbitration Panel).
It's interesting to note that every challenging skipper, apart from Jimmy Spithill, has sailed for the current defender!
Day 1, and 2 wins by Ineos in favourable conditions! 
Tomorrow's forecast with lighter winds may be the leveller but, at least, team GB are now competitive, after their woeful performance pre Xmas, and the modifications (if legal?) may get them to the finale?
This is why I prefer the 'long' race, as that is a true test of boat and solo skipper (or crack team of offshore racers) whilst this lot have a blast around a course in protected waters and return to a hot shower, beer, and meals cooked for them, retiring to their soft bed for a good rest before having another hour or two's racing tomorrow.
And they call it 'sailing'!!!
Tomorrow's forecast with lighter winds may be the leveller but, at least, team GB are now competitive, after their woeful performance pre Xmas, and the modifications (if legal?) may get them to the finale?
This is why I prefer the 'long' race, as that is a true test of boat and solo skipper (or crack team of offshore racers) whilst this lot have a blast around a course in protected waters and return to a hot shower, beer, and meals cooked for them, retiring to their soft bed for a good rest before having another hour or two's racing tomorrow.
And they call it 'sailing'!!!
chrisga said:
Tyre Smoke said:
I thought no spoilers until after the repeat in the morning?
Ah, sorry, I didnt know the rules. What time is the repeat, I just watched on youtube? Won't happen again, just got a bit carried away....Edited by chrisga on Friday 15th January 08:02
pequod said:
Day 1, and 2 wins by Ineos in favourable conditions!
Tomorrow's forecast with lighter winds may be the leveller but, at least, team GB are now competitive, after their woeful performance pre Xmas, and the modifications (if legal?) may get them to the finale?
This is why I prefer the 'long' race, as that is a true test of boat and solo skipper (or crack team of offshore racers) whilst this lot have a blast around a course in protected waters and return to a hot shower, beer, and meals cooked for them, retiring to their soft bed for a good rest before having another hour or two's racing tomorrow.
And they call it 'sailing'!!!
Have a day off you muppet. Tomorrow's forecast with lighter winds may be the leveller but, at least, team GB are now competitive, after their woeful performance pre Xmas, and the modifications (if legal?) may get them to the finale?
This is why I prefer the 'long' race, as that is a true test of boat and solo skipper (or crack team of offshore racers) whilst this lot have a blast around a course in protected waters and return to a hot shower, beer, and meals cooked for them, retiring to their soft bed for a good rest before having another hour or two's racing tomorrow.
And they call it 'sailing'!!!
AlexS said:
chrisga said:
Tyre Smoke said:
I thought no spoilers until after the repeat in the morning?
Ah, sorry, I didnt know the rules. What time is the repeat, I just watched on youtube? Won't happen again, just got a bit carried away....Edited by chrisga on Friday 15th January 08:02
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