Crash at Shoreham Air show

[aeropilot]

flatlandsman said:

I expect that is exactly what might or will happen. As others have said this was in the Sun howsoever, so it might just be garbage, it seemed to be linked to a tv show linked to the disaster or perhaps similar things, which if so means it is in even worse taste!!

I saw a preview clip of that Discovery documentary late last night on Quest.... I think its being shown in next few days, not on Quest though.

[Dogwatch]

ClaphamGT3 said:

On one hand, he was tried and found to be innocent.

He was found not guilty. The Prosecution failed to prove its case.
The Coroner took a very different view.


BTW the junction is (very) slowly disappearing under the bullozers as it is being relocated to a giant roundabout several hundred yards further West.

[Bonefish Blues]

Dogwatch said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

On one hand, he was tried and found to be innocent.

He was found not guilty. The Prosecution failed to prove its case.
The Coroner took a very different view.


BTW the junction is (very) slowly disappearing under the bullozers as it is being relocated to a giant roundabout several hundred yards further West.

The Coroner explicitly stated that her verdict did not detract from the Jury's not guilty verdict. Still puzzled as to how that could be the case.

Commentary here:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/20/sh...

[s2000db]

Hopefully, no doctor will give him a certificate to fly, considering that he claimed that ‘g forces’ affected his judgment…

[aeropilot]

s2000db said:

Hopefully, no doctor will give him a certificate to fly, considering that he claimed that ‘g forces’ affected his judgment…

Exactly.

As I said in earlier post, his whole defense was based around proving, or not being able to prove cognitive impairment (rather than his crap flying being the cause of the accident) and so in my view, no doctor will approve him medically fit to fly based on that alone.

Hopefully.

[Gareth79]

President Merkin said:

As an aside, at the time, I had an office at the airport & although not involved in aviation, I know lots of pilots there & flying is nothing if not a gossipy old world. What I heard in the aftermath was there's a one upping, macho culture among display pilots & this guy had a reputation for pushing things to the extent that the other one upping, macho display guys felt uncomfortable about him. Take that how you want, it was just what was floating about the offices at the time.

I vaguely recall one or two people on here (earlier in the thread I think?) said they knew him and said he was a perfectly fine fellow! Not sure what their opinion is now...

[hidetheelephants]

aeropilot said:

s2000db said:

Hopefully, no doctor will give him a certificate to fly, considering that he claimed that ‘g forces’ affected his judgment…

Exactly.

As I said in earlier post, his whole defense was based around proving, or not being able to prove cognitive impairment (rather than his crap flying being the cause of the accident) and so in my view, no doctor will approve him medically fit to fly based on that alone.

Hopefully.

Sound logic, but an NPPL doesn't require a medical so it's hard to argue from a regulatory basis that he should be prevented from ever flying again, just nothing like he was doing before.

[zsdom]

The s*n has got exactly what it wanted, mouth frothing, feather spitting & playing on peoples emotions & recollections from that absolutely horrific day.

I am in no way shape or form defending him, his actions led to people dying unecessarily, he ruined families lives forever, he single handedly changed the face of the airshow world that I covet & fully immerse myself in every summer & have done for as long as I can remember. He fked everything up, I loved seeing Hunters display, they look & sound amazing and I’ve only seen one display since Shoreham & I had to travel to France to see it.

But Pistonheads cant be judge Judy & executioner, a jury of his peers failed to reach a decision that would have led to a sufficient punishment to be handed out.

People need to get a grip, some are posting as if applying for a license will have him at an airshow from next May or that he’ll be flying hundreds of people to long haul destinations, that just wont happen, no one in their right mind will have him near professional aviation again, the CAA wont ever grant a display authority to him & no employer would go near him, that leaves him with recreational hobby flying, Andy Hill has to live with the knowledge & guilt of what he’s done to the world, he’ll have to carry that burden everytime he straps in, not one person on here knows him, his feelings or his mental state.

If he wants to pootle a Cessna from airfield to airfield on a Sunday morning to have at least some form of normality or a slither of happiness in his life who are we to take that from him? It will have zero impact on anyone of our lives.

[MarkwG]

Your first seven words nailed it for me: I find it highly unlikely that there's anything more to this than conjecture. If he has applied, & that information has been leaked then someone has seriously breached privacy rules, putting their job on the line - I doubt very much that's happened, he's not worth the risk.

A bored Sun editor sh!t stirring on a quiet news day, however...

[Digger]

zsdom said:

The s*n has got exactly what it wanted, mouth frothing, feather spitting & playing on peoples emotions & recollections from that absolutely horrific day.

I am in no way shape or form defending him, his actions led to people dying unecessarily, he ruined families lives forever, he single handedly changed the face of the airshow world that I covet & fully immerse myself in every summer & have done for as long as I can remember. He fked everything up, I loved seeing Hunters display, they look & sound amazing and I’ve only seen one display since Shoreham & I had to travel to France to see it.

But Pistonheads cant be judge Judy & executioner, a jury of his peers failed to reach a decision that would have led to a sufficient punishment to be handed out.

People need to get a grip, some are posting as if applying for a license will have him at an airshow from next May or that he’ll be flying hundreds of people to long haul destinations, that just wont happen, no one in their right mind will have him near professional aviation again, the CAA wont ever grant a display authority to him & no employer would go near him, that leaves him with recreational hobby flying, Andy Hill has to live with the knowledge & guilt of what he’s done to the world, he’ll have to carry that burden everytime he straps in, not one person on here knows him, his feelings or his mental state.

If he wants to pootle a Cessna from airfield to airfield on a Sunday morning to have at least some form of normality or a slither of happiness in his life who are we to take that from him? It will have zero impact on anyone of our lives.

A well-balanced & reasonable post.

Nailed it as far as my view goes.

[Gareth79]

zsdom said:

Andy Hill has to live with the knowledge & guilt of what he’s done to the world, he’ll have to carry that burden everytime he straps in, not one person on here knows him, his feelings or his mental state.

We don't know his feelings or mental state, but can only see his actions. His application for a judicial review to challenge the inquest doesn't really *suggest* that he feels any guilt or burden, given that the victims' families said it caused them great distress at the thought that they might have to go through it all again, for no real benefit except to Hill.

MarkwG said:

Your first seven words nailed it for me: I find it highly unlikely that there's anything more to this than conjecture. If he has applied, & that information has been leaked then someone has seriously breached privacy rules, putting their job on the line - I doubt very much that's happened, he's not worth the risk.

Uh, people leak things all the time, I don't think it the slightest bit doubtful that one of the dozens (hundreds?) of people who would have had knowledge (should be have applied( might have decided to tell The Sun.

Edited by Gareth79 on Friday 29th December 00:14

[Vasco]

zsdom said:

The s*n has got exactly what it wanted, mouth frothing, feather spitting & playing on peoples emotions & recollections from that absolutely horrific day.

I am in no way shape or form defending him, his actions led to people dying unecessarily, he ruined families lives forever, he single handedly changed the face of the airshow world that I covet & fully immerse myself in every summer & have done for as long as I can remember. He fked everything up, I loved seeing Hunters display, they look & sound amazing and I’ve only seen one display since Shoreham & I had to travel to France to see it.

But Pistonheads cant be judge Judy & executioner, a jury of his peers failed to reach a decision that would have led to a sufficient punishment to be handed out.

People need to get a grip, some are posting as if applying for a license will have him at an airshow from next May or that he’ll be flying hundreds of people to long haul destinations, that just wont happen, no one in their right mind will have him near professional aviation again, the CAA wont ever grant a display authority to him & no employer would go near him, that leaves him with recreational hobby flying, Andy Hill has to live with the knowledge & guilt of what he’s done to the world, he’ll have to carry that burden everytime he straps in, not one person on here knows him, his feelings or his mental state.

If he wants to pootle a Cessna from airfield to airfield on a Sunday morning to have at least some form of normality or a slither of happiness in his life who are we to take that from him? It will have zero impact on anyone of our lives.

You appear to be allowing your absolute love of airshows to be clouding your judgement.

For various personal reasons I've watched everything that's gone on about this case, and the pilot in particular. He's never appeared to fully accept what happened and seems to usually convey the 'it must be someone else's fault' approach to the accident.

You're probably right that nobody on PH knows him personally - but nor do you, so your views are just as irrelevant as others.

Why should he be allowed to fly again - regardless of the type of aircraft ?. He is still just as capable of causing problems, or an accident, as he was before. Why should we allow such people to be flying above any of us ?.

How will you react if he flies again - and kills again ?

[IanH755]

I'm amazed that he ever wants to fly again, and his actions post incident tells me that he's not "learned his lesson" after killing so many, so if his personal freedom to fly again is revoked I have absolutely zero issue with that. Personally his attitude towards the incident disgusts me and I hope he never, ever flies again.

[gotoPzero]

IanH755 said:

I'm amazed that he ever wants to fly again.

+1.

Pilots who have crashes due to mechanical issues or possibly stuff like bad company policy do often fly again. Its not pilot error.

But someone who crashes due to pilot error and who in turn kills people - I think its very, very rare for those people to ever fly again. Most of them are just glad they survived and admit they made a serious mistake and that they wont put themselves in the position where that might happen again.
.

[NDA]

zsdom said:

...... he ruined families lives forever, he single handedly changed the face of the airshow world....

....People need to get a grip,

..... Andy Hill has to live with the knowledge & guilt of what he’s done to the world, he’ll have to carry that burden ...

If he wants to pootle a Cessna from airfield to airfield on a Sunday morning to have at least some form of normality or a slither of happiness in his life who are we to take that from him?

Selectively edited.

Firstly Hill doesn't appear to carry any sort of burden.

Secondly there is a sense that justice has been evaded. Hill is hoping to put his life back together to have some 'normality' - why the hell should he?? The victims of his appalling actions and the many hundreds of family and friends of those who died senselessly would like to see him punished rather than being able to 'pootle' about in his Cessna.

[flatlandsman]

He applied for a judicial review in the early part of 2023 it seems, and the media at the time were unaware as to why, maybe now we know the reason.

I do not understand legal terminology sadly.

[MarkwG]

MarkwG said:

Your first seven words nailed it for me: I find it highly unlikely that there's anything more to this than conjecture. If he has applied, & that information has been leaked then someone has seriously breached privacy rules, putting their job on the line - I doubt very much that's happened, he's not worth the risk.

Uh, people leak things all the time, I don't think it the slightest bit doubtful that one of the dozens (hundreds?) of people who would have had knowledge (should be have applied( might have decided to tell The Sun.

Edited by Gareth79 on Friday 29th December 00:14

Sorry, that's not correct. I know how the system works, it's less than a handful, all of whom will be trackable. It's far less likely to be a leak than a journalist making stuff up.

[anonymous-user]

Do pilots have to have insurance before they go flying? If so, will any company risk the underwriting for him?

[Vasco]

MarkwG said:

MarkwG said:

Your first seven words nailed it for me: I find it highly unlikely that there's anything more to this than conjecture. If he has applied, & that information has been leaked then someone has seriously breached privacy rules, putting their job on the line - I doubt very much that's happened, he's not worth the risk.

Uh, people leak things all the time, I don't think it the slightest bit doubtful that one of the dozens (hundreds?) of people who would have had knowledge (should be have applied( might have decided to tell The Sun.

Edited by Gareth79 on Friday 29th December 00:14

Sorry, that's not correct. I know how the system works, it's less than a handful, all of whom will be trackable. It's far less likely to be a leak than a journalist making stuff up.

Really ?

I know the Sun is hardly the best source for anything - but you think a reporter made the story up. Couldn't it have been fairly easy to counter that by now if it's totally wrong ?

[BrettMRC]

If he wants to fly, give him another hunter and send him to Ukraine.