Son wants to be a pilot
Discussion
If you don’t mind your son getting a green card or becoming an American citizen, then the US is going through a pilot shortage and that is not sales talk.
A degree might still be needed though to get into the majors, I’m not sure.
Here, we’re still on a race to the bottom and every Uk airline is trying to squeeze more off us pilots t&c’s, admittedly using the quite valid excuse of covid losses.
UK pilots might still get paid well but most of us on full time, don’t get time to spend it in the summer!
El Stovey is lucky being on the beach fleet, hence his pink(!) tinged viewpoint, not many of those jobs available!!!
A degree might still be needed though to get into the majors, I’m not sure.
Here, we’re still on a race to the bottom and every Uk airline is trying to squeeze more off us pilots t&c’s, admittedly using the quite valid excuse of covid losses.
UK pilots might still get paid well but most of us on full time, don’t get time to spend it in the summer!
El Stovey is lucky being on the beach fleet, hence his pink(!) tinged viewpoint, not many of those jobs available!!!
The industry has seen massive culls like never before. At one point 16000 pilots had been made redundant, during Covid, in Europe alone. This means there are swathes of type rated pilots on the market chasing a small and nervous ramp up in the job market. Airlines will always take a type rated pilot over a new fresh cadet as it's a free rating and avoids costly base training and 50 sectors of line training.
I have two friends (only two). One just finished his ATPL course and secured a job on the ATR with Stobart Air. The other started at L3 on his ATPL course fresh out of Uni end of 2019.
Friend 1 - Stobart folded and he has been out of a job since early 2020. He has one sniff 2 weeks ago for an ATR operator but it was brutal as they declined him based on a lack of recent flying experience and technical knowledge lapsed. He spanked 90k on course and has that debt on his mortgage causing proper stress. The job at Stobart was paying £26k pa. He is back as a spark on the tools at £50k pa. Mentally broken and financially worse with the debt.
Friend 2 - Graduated with frozen ATPL in 2020 after I suggested it wasn't a good time to start. Zero sniff of any positions anywhere. Each month another fresh set of Frozen APTL trainees come on the market with recent flying experience and are more employable than he is. As a training manager for an airline, I'd see him as a training risk for increased costs/ footprint on a type rating course. Working in a coffee bar for two years, he has done zero flying and hadsn't used the technical knowledge gained on his course. Awful to see what it's doing for his mental health also.
So, I believe we will see a return to a normal job market subject to Ukraine and world outlook. Huge amounts of early retirements in the industry will probably mean a pilot shortage. However, when that happens, the most recent type rated pilots will be at the top of the pile followed by the most recently graduated cadets. That's just how it works for the reasons discussed above.
So if you were to start a modular or integrated ATPL course in 2023, I think graduation mid 2024 would work ok. easyJet are certainly ramping up to feed cadets into the market for that exact course end date.
I have two friends (only two). One just finished his ATPL course and secured a job on the ATR with Stobart Air. The other started at L3 on his ATPL course fresh out of Uni end of 2019.
Friend 1 - Stobart folded and he has been out of a job since early 2020. He has one sniff 2 weeks ago for an ATR operator but it was brutal as they declined him based on a lack of recent flying experience and technical knowledge lapsed. He spanked 90k on course and has that debt on his mortgage causing proper stress. The job at Stobart was paying £26k pa. He is back as a spark on the tools at £50k pa. Mentally broken and financially worse with the debt.
Friend 2 - Graduated with frozen ATPL in 2020 after I suggested it wasn't a good time to start. Zero sniff of any positions anywhere. Each month another fresh set of Frozen APTL trainees come on the market with recent flying experience and are more employable than he is. As a training manager for an airline, I'd see him as a training risk for increased costs/ footprint on a type rating course. Working in a coffee bar for two years, he has done zero flying and hadsn't used the technical knowledge gained on his course. Awful to see what it's doing for his mental health also.
So, I believe we will see a return to a normal job market subject to Ukraine and world outlook. Huge amounts of early retirements in the industry will probably mean a pilot shortage. However, when that happens, the most recent type rated pilots will be at the top of the pile followed by the most recently graduated cadets. That's just how it works for the reasons discussed above.
So if you were to start a modular or integrated ATPL course in 2023, I think graduation mid 2024 would work ok. easyJet are certainly ramping up to feed cadets into the market for that exact course end date.
At the ripe old age of 34, I remortgaged, sold the family silver, dug behind the sofa, and took part in
So I drove a Tesco van for 6 months, then spent 2 years
Now I fly boxes for Amazon, which isn't great for the long term career prospects but is fantastic for my young(ish) family, as I only work about 12 days a month (and earn more than when I was doing 50 hours a week as a middle manager in my previous job).
If I wanted to build my hours I could go back to the pissheads; it looks like there's going to be a boom in commercial aviation next year. Friends at commercial airlines are telling me their rosters are full for the next month (97 hours rostered out of a legal maximum of 100).
It's the best job in the world. It has its ups and downs; in 5 years I've lost my job twice. But I'd do it all again without a second thought.
If your lad wants to chat about his options, feel free to PM me as I only went through the process a few years ago.
hidetheelephants said:
the full Nigel experience
It was great fun, but there were no jobs when I finished.So I drove a Tesco van for 6 months, then spent 2 years
croyde said:
...flying a bus load of pissheads to Málaga...
Then COVID hit and I went back to Tesco for another 6 months.Now I fly boxes for Amazon, which isn't great for the long term career prospects but is fantastic for my young(ish) family, as I only work about 12 days a month (and earn more than when I was doing 50 hours a week as a middle manager in my previous job).
If I wanted to build my hours I could go back to the pissheads; it looks like there's going to be a boom in commercial aviation next year. Friends at commercial airlines are telling me their rosters are full for the next month (97 hours rostered out of a legal maximum of 100).
It's the best job in the world. It has its ups and downs; in 5 years I've lost my job twice. But I'd do it all again without a second thought.
If your lad wants to chat about his options, feel free to PM me as I only went through the process a few years ago.
croyde said:
Isn't flying boxes better than flying people?
Just interested.
My only experience was that I spent years driving boxes as a van courier then moved to driving people as a minicab driver.
Went back to driving boxes as they don't complain or get passed
I sometimes think that would be the better place to be. Cargolux recently announced massive profit related pay to their crews. Just interested.
My only experience was that I spent years driving boxes as a van courier then moved to driving people as a minicab driver.
Went back to driving boxes as they don't complain or get passed
Box's don't start fights in the cabin, get drunk, shout, argue, get abusive to crew etc etc etc...
The only thing that put me off is the box's seem to prefer to be moved at night.... I like my bed.
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