Old Rolling Stock still in service!
Discussion
Podie said:
Tell you what, you travel on a NXEA train in the height of summer, then tell me the Pendo's are s
t.
Hell, I'd take a Pendo over any London Midland stock (especially the later green seated Desiros).
Other way around for me, I'd take a Desiro over a Pendo. The ONLY advantage a Pendo has is that it is more RA than the stopper for LM .t.Hell, I'd take a Pendo over any London Midland stock (especially the later green seated Desiros).
As for NXEA, only done a few 1000miles behind them and I've been lucky enough to be in FC at the times so yet to experience the SC lovelyness in the summer.
By the way, this isn't old vs new. It's good v crap.
I'm definitely with 43034 on this one. Old stock is much nicer to travel in for all the reasons he's stated. Space, views, lack of cramped-ness. And there are drop lights in the vestibules, so you can get round this fking pissarsed anti-smoking nazism by going into the vestibule and smoking out of the window.
I despise the modern practice of running short rakes with a disproportionate and excessive amount of first class accommodation. No wonder trains are so crowded these days.
Modern stock is stuffed full of useless technology which makes it expensive to buy and expensive to maintain, and doesn't actually make it any better. By all means make advances in suspension technology - basically a matter of geometry and springs, so doesn't increase complexity - but implement them by simply fitting new bogies to Mk 3 bodies. Leave us with nice long rakes of stock which by its simplicity costs no more to maintain than short rakes of overcomplicated stock, and has the advantage of providing a decent amount of space instead of cramming people in like cattle.
To reduce journey times it is much better to concentrate not on increasing the height of the peaks of the speed vs. distance curve but on filling in the troughs - eliminating bottlenecks, removing speed restrictions, reversing so-called track layout rationalisations - fixing things so that trains don't have to slow down except to call at stations. It's the slow bits which have a much greater effect on journey times than the fast bits - as can be seen when trying to make up time in the car, no matter how much you hoof it it's very hard to get back the time you lost in towns and jams.
king pissarsed anti-smoking nazism by going into the vestibule and smoking out of the window.I despise the modern practice of running short rakes with a disproportionate and excessive amount of first class accommodation. No wonder trains are so crowded these days.
Modern stock is stuffed full of useless technology which makes it expensive to buy and expensive to maintain, and doesn't actually make it any better. By all means make advances in suspension technology - basically a matter of geometry and springs, so doesn't increase complexity - but implement them by simply fitting new bogies to Mk 3 bodies. Leave us with nice long rakes of stock which by its simplicity costs no more to maintain than short rakes of overcomplicated stock, and has the advantage of providing a decent amount of space instead of cramming people in like cattle.
To reduce journey times it is much better to concentrate not on increasing the height of the peaks of the speed vs. distance curve but on filling in the troughs - eliminating bottlenecks, removing speed restrictions, reversing so-called track layout rationalisations - fixing things so that trains don't have to slow down except to call at stations. It's the slow bits which have a much greater effect on journey times than the fast bits - as can be seen when trying to make up time in the car, no matter how much you hoof it it's very hard to get back the time you lost in towns and jams.
Thats the question that has to be asked.
If the old stuff was all so wonderful....where is it?
I traveled on the 'pretendolino' the other day and frankly was amazed at how rough it was compared to a 390, I'd also forgotten the huge 'bang' and the way the crockery on the table jumps an inch sideways when another train passes!
Someones plan to rebuild the HST's and refurb MkIII's has just be killed off because they can't be made DDA compliant.
Times change...not always for the better, but we have to get over it.
And having been a Driver for 30 years you can stick your roarers, 87's and other vintage stuff where the sun don't shine, they (looking back from our point of view) were rough, draughty, wet and generally pretty awful...!
But then nostalgia ain't what it used to be!
If the old stuff was all so wonderful....where is it?
I traveled on the 'pretendolino' the other day and frankly was amazed at how rough it was compared to a 390, I'd also forgotten the huge 'bang' and the way the crockery on the table jumps an inch sideways when another train passes!
Someones plan to rebuild the HST's and refurb MkIII's has just be killed off because they can't be made DDA compliant.
Times change...not always for the better, but we have to get over it.
And having been a Driver for 30 years you can stick your roarers, 87's and other vintage stuff where the sun don't shine, they (looking back from our point of view) were rough, draughty, wet and generally pretty awful...!
But then nostalgia ain't what it used to be!
neilb62 said:
Thats the question that has to be asked.
If the old stuff was all so wonderful....where is it?
I traveled on the 'pretendolino' the other day and frankly was amazed at how rough it was compared to a 390, I'd also forgotten the huge 'bang' and the way the crockery on the table jumps an inch sideways when another train passes!
Someones plan to rebuild the HST's and refurb MkIII's has just be killed off because they can't be made DDA compliant.
Times change...not always for the better, but we have to get over it.
And having been a Driver for 30 years you can stick your roarers, 87's and other vintage stuff where the sun don't shine, they (looking back from our point of view) were rough, draughty, wet and generally pretty awful...!
But then nostalgia ain't what it used to be!
Indeed, neilb. This is where views are different. Yours are from the up front point of view and mine being from the passenger point of view. If the old stuff was all so wonderful....where is it?
I traveled on the 'pretendolino' the other day and frankly was amazed at how rough it was compared to a 390, I'd also forgotten the huge 'bang' and the way the crockery on the table jumps an inch sideways when another train passes!
Someones plan to rebuild the HST's and refurb MkIII's has just be killed off because they can't be made DDA compliant.
Times change...not always for the better, but we have to get over it.
And having been a Driver for 30 years you can stick your roarers, 87's and other vintage stuff where the sun don't shine, they (looking back from our point of view) were rough, draughty, wet and generally pretty awful...!
But then nostalgia ain't what it used to be!
Different people = different views, but it always warrants a good discussion.
Forgot to add though, I'm not debating that everything old is better than everything new. It isn't a debate of that imo. It's more a good v crap debate, and in my eyes, the older stuff happens to be better!!
Edited by 43034 on Sunday 5th September 12:01
mph1977 said:
Yertis said:
neilb62 said:
Someones plan to rebuild the HST's and refurb MkIII's has just be killed off because they can't be made DDA compliant.
That's insane.Yertis said:
mph1977 said:
Yertis said:
neilb62 said:
Someones plan to rebuild the HST's and refurb MkIII's has just be killed off because they can't be made DDA compliant.
That's insane.It was tested to fit some plug doors on a MK2. No idea why it wasn't successful, i'm yet to care enough to gind out. Probably cost though. http://rollingstock.fotopic.net/p43787257.html
glad to see how thoughtless the PH massive are with respect to the DDA ... the DDA really isn't 'pointless politically correct legislation', as usual it's the idiots who don't understand it that turn it into pointless tabloid grandstanding
surely the point is it would be cheaper to build new stock than to re-engineer the existing Mk 3 stock to be fully DDA compliant...
most of the 'refurbishment' carried on on mk 3 stock so far has been in-depth servicing or replacement of parts and interior tarting up rather than what is being suggested about 'zero houring' it all with a complete rebuild.
surely the point is it would be cheaper to build new stock than to re-engineer the existing Mk 3 stock to be fully DDA compliant...
most of the 'refurbishment' carried on on mk 3 stock so far has been in-depth servicing or replacement of parts and interior tarting up rather than what is being suggested about 'zero houring' it all with a complete rebuild.
The FGW HSTs currently have 2 disabled coaches per rake, 1 FC and 1 SC.
The SC one has been adapted to make things easier for the disabled passenger. It has had a larger disabled toilet, http://rollingstock.fotopic.net/p54272741.html and wider vestibule door and has had 2 sets of 2 seats removed to allow space for 2 wheelchairs http://rollingstock.fotopic.net/p60933854.html .
Exterior look is here: http://rollingstock.fotopic.net/p49462664.html
Passengers are advised, that when travelling you phone ahead for assistance to help you board the train and alight when you get off. A member of platform staff will then be aware if you are getting off at the station s/he is working at and can be prepared to help you on/off.
The SC one has been adapted to make things easier for the disabled passenger. It has had a larger disabled toilet, http://rollingstock.fotopic.net/p54272741.html and wider vestibule door and has had 2 sets of 2 seats removed to allow space for 2 wheelchairs http://rollingstock.fotopic.net/p60933854.html .
Exterior look is here: http://rollingstock.fotopic.net/p49462664.html
Passengers are advised, that when travelling you phone ahead for assistance to help you board the train and alight when you get off. A member of platform staff will then be aware if you are getting off at the station s/he is working at and can be prepared to help you on/off.
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