Discussion
There's a book called "The Dreamland Chronicles" by David Darlington which is quite good if you're in the right mood:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dreamland-Chronicles-Stran...
Written by a journalist who went to investigate Area 51, and came across all sorts of characters whom you'd expect to come across when delving into a subject like this. The guy kind of does what everyone who's read the internet stories about this place would love to do, but probably never will. All the landmarks are in there, all the 'experts' and all the wierdos, up to and including Bob Lazar himself!
Speaking of whom:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Lazar
Rubbish or not, I just love all this stuff!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dreamland-Chronicles-Stran...
Written by a journalist who went to investigate Area 51, and came across all sorts of characters whom you'd expect to come across when delving into a subject like this. The guy kind of does what everyone who's read the internet stories about this place would love to do, but probably never will. All the landmarks are in there, all the 'experts' and all the wierdos, up to and including Bob Lazar himself!
Speaking of whom:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Lazar
Rubbish or not, I just love all this stuff!
As mentioned before, it's the less alien projects that i find most fasinating in the history of Area 51 / groom. When you find out so of the technologies and things they were try to get to work back in the 50/60/70's it's pretty mind blowing!
The usual SR-71 books are well worth a read of course, and there are plenty of other books on and around the subject!
Finally, after all these years, declassification is allowing people to tell their stories on the black projects, and if anything, the human angle is even more interesting than the technology one ;-)
The usual SR-71 books are well worth a read of course, and there are plenty of other books on and around the subject!
Finally, after all these years, declassification is allowing people to tell their stories on the black projects, and if anything, the human angle is even more interesting than the technology one ;-)
I would imagine that the X-43/X-51 Hypersonic plane, or derivatives of are being developed there. There's been a reasonable amount of new construction happening over the past few years (new hangers, taxi ways, general warehouse type buildings) which would account for these programmes.
It's no secret that there's still very much a need for a very high speed reconnaissance aircraft that can get anywhere worldwide in a couple of hours. It would have to be small to avoid radar so will almost certainly be an unmanned aircraft which has other obvious safety benefits.
Satellites are ok, but the trouble is anyone who's anyone knows where they are. A plane doesn't have that disadvantage. But then there's always stealth satellites which almost certainly exist.
I would imagine that whilst they're trying to get Scramjets running reliably for long periods, Area 51 is probably working on Hypersonic unmanned aircraft control systems using conventional aircraft as test beds.
The above is all speculation on my part though.
It's no secret that there's still very much a need for a very high speed reconnaissance aircraft that can get anywhere worldwide in a couple of hours. It would have to be small to avoid radar so will almost certainly be an unmanned aircraft which has other obvious safety benefits.
Satellites are ok, but the trouble is anyone who's anyone knows where they are. A plane doesn't have that disadvantage. But then there's always stealth satellites which almost certainly exist.
I would imagine that whilst they're trying to get Scramjets running reliably for long periods, Area 51 is probably working on Hypersonic unmanned aircraft control systems using conventional aircraft as test beds.
The above is all speculation on my part though.
Edited by dvs_dave on Monday 14th February 21:01
dr_gn said:
Or The Rendlesham Forest Incident...
Or my favorite: The Howden Moor Incident.
Rendlesham is pretty much agreed to be a bunch of guys not knowing exactly where the local lighthouse was, the senior officer involved was from another base so got a little confused about the location of the lighthouse.Or my favorite: The Howden Moor Incident.
Slightly off-topic, but what exactly was so secret about the U-2 that the Russians could not imitate it? The tech in the SR-71 is pretty obviously special, but the U-2 on the face of it is just a jet powered glider with a pressurised cockpit and seems (relatively) simple to engineer. Or am I missing something obvious?
moribund said:
Slightly off-topic, but what exactly was so secret about the U-2 that the Russians could not imitate it? The tech in the SR-71 is pretty obviously special, but the U-2 on the face of it is just a jet powered glider with a pressurised cockpit and seems (relatively) simple to engineer. Or am I missing something obvious?
It is my understanding that the aerodynamic "knife edge" on which the U2 operates is a very very fine aerodynamic balancing act. In fact, iirc, at max cruise altitude the window between the airframes maxiumum KEAS and the stall velocity is as little as 15 knots??(basically, the thin air means the lift/drag ratio and control surface authority is difficult to maintain)
I think the main technology "secrets" in the U2 were actually it's sensor payload, with advanced optical and electromagnetic information gathering systems at the cutting edge of developments.
But i could be wrong lol!
moribund said:
Slightly off-topic, but what exactly was so secret about the U-2 that the Russians could not imitate it? The tech in the SR-71 is pretty obviously special, but the U-2 on the face of it is just a jet powered glider with a pressurised cockpit and seems (relatively) simple to engineer. Or am I missing something obvious?
The U-2 shared a lot of DNA with the F-104. One of the reasons it was kept secret was that the CIA thought the Russian radar could only reach to about 60-65,000ft and they could over fly without being detected. Once the overflights started the Russians knew what was happening but couldn't go public as to do so would be an admission of failure.
A few useless facts, the "U" in U-2 stood for "Utility" the A in A-12 was for "Article" and the SR-71 was originally the RS-71.
Max_Torque said:
It is my understanding that the aerodynamic "knife edge" on which the U2 operates is a very very fine aerodynamic balancing act. In fact, iirc, at max cruise altitude the window between the airframes maxiumum KEAS and the stall velocity is as little as 15 knots??
Under certain conditions the knife edge was less than 15 knots, it was zero! It was possible when turning the aircraft to get the wingtip on the outside of the turn in a Mach buffet while the inner wing tip was in a stall, this was known by the pilots as flying in "Coffin Corner"dvs_dave said:
The Hypno-Toad said:
You don't even need to go that far away for secret air force stories.
Try googling Boscombe Down 1994 Stealth crash...
Popular theory is that it was a pre-production F-22 or an updated SR-71 Blackbird which the USAF "retired" years ago. Try googling Boscombe Down 1994 Stealth crash...
Tango13 said:
and the SR-71 was originally the RS-71.
Research done and referenced in "Flying the SR-71 Blackbird" by Richard Graham, (see pages 4&5), pretty much debunks this myth. Comparison of the audio tapes, and the original speach wording (given by President Lyndon) shows that the error was actually made by the stenographer, who typed RS-71, when the President actually correctly said SR-71. Tango13 said:
Under certain conditions the knife edge was less than 15 knots, it was zero! It was possible when turning the aircraft to get the wingtip on the outside of the turn in a Mach buffet while the inner wing tip was in a stall, this was known by the pilots as flying in "Coffin Corner"
I have to say i haven't got a full understanding of the mechanics of "departing from controlled flight" at high KEAS and altitudes, but i should immagine the result is bad!(persumably the pilot is forced to eject otherwise airframe G from "tumbling flight" will lead to blackout or even airframe overload?)
The more and more satellites are being launched, the harder it becomes for anyone to hide evidence of new military aircraft development. There have been more and more sightings of vapour trails, left by "pulser" engined aircraft recently. Most seem to originate from the Nellis range. Some calculations have had these things estimated speed at MACH 10 - 12. That's quite fast 
.
.Edited by Gwagon111 on Tuesday 15th February 06:39
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