Red Arrows “Scandal”?
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
Aerobatics are actually "aerial acrobatics". That is how the word originated.
As a result, I don't mind the word "acrobatics" when referring to aeroplane display manoeuvers. It's a million times better than "stunt flying" which the media sometimes labels aerobatics as.
Indeed. As a result, I don't mind the word "acrobatics" when referring to aeroplane display manoeuvers. It's a million times better than "stunt flying" which the media sometimes labels aerobatics as.
Otherwise it would just be AeroBatik, weaving around the sky in a colourful way maybe?
Tony1963 said:
They really aren’t something to be proud of right now, are they
If a minister is involved, given that several of the pilots have already been transferred out of the team, the cynic in me says that the situation is being used as a justification to shut the team down and make their funding available elsewhere.GliderRider said:
Tony1963 said:
They really aren’t something to be proud of right now, are they
If a minister is involved, given that several of the pilots have already been transferred out of the team, the cynic in me says that the situation is being used as a justification to shut the team down and make their funding available elsewhere.Collectingbrass said:
Which is all the more reason why the local chain of command ought to have gripped the culture earlier and kept things under control, to ensure the bean counters weren't given excuses like this.
Or were they part of it? Thought of it as banter? Didn’t want to rock the boat?I almost hope and pray that this isn’t a little version of what the RAF is now: worse than it was in my time in the 80s.
Tony1963 said:
Collectingbrass said:
Which is all the more reason why the local chain of command ought to have gripped the culture earlier and kept things under control, to ensure the bean counters weren't given excuses like this.
Or were they part of it? Thought of it as banter? Didn’t want to rock the boat?I almost hope and pray that this isn’t a little version of what the RAF is now: worse than it was in my time in the 80s.
Tony1963 said:
Collectingbrass said:
Which is all the more reason why the local chain of command ought to have gripped the culture earlier and kept things under control, to ensure the bean counters weren't given excuses like this.
Or were they part of it? Thought of it as banter? Didn’t want to rock the boat?I almost hope and pray that this isn’t a little version of what the RAF is now: worse than it was in my time in the 80s.
When the Reds were just part of CFS and were selected from the large cadre of CFS instructors, they were still a small cog in a bigger wheel...............with privatisation of advanced flying training and the effective demise of CFS as it was, the Reds have become an almost independent 'squadron' with their own base, and that elitism has been created out of the way the Reds have become. Yes, leadership should have recognised this, and that's no excuse, but, you can see how the circumstances of the way the Reds have been kept going in an ever shrinking RAF around them has fostered this unsavoury situation.
The fact that, they still have't been binned is perplexing.
aeropilot said:
Maybe, more a case of a small minority trying to think they were still in the 1980's.....and being almost cut-off from the rest of the RAF in their own little bubble as a result of the desperation to keep the team going, in an ever shrinking RAF.
When the Reds were just part of CFS and were selected from the large cadre of CFS instructors, they were still a small cog in a bigger wheel...............with privatisation of advanced flying training and the effective demise of CFS as it was, the Reds have become an almost independent 'squadron' with their own base, and that elitism has been created out of the way the Reds have become. Yes, leadership should have recognised this, and that's no excuse, but, you can see how the circumstances of the way the Reds have been kept going in an ever shrinking RAF around them has fostered this unsavoury situation.
The fact that, they still have't been binned is perplexing.
Agreed, except they don’t have their own base around them. When the Reds were just part of CFS and were selected from the large cadre of CFS instructors, they were still a small cog in a bigger wheel...............with privatisation of advanced flying training and the effective demise of CFS as it was, the Reds have become an almost independent 'squadron' with their own base, and that elitism has been created out of the way the Reds have become. Yes, leadership should have recognised this, and that's no excuse, but, you can see how the circumstances of the way the Reds have been kept going in an ever shrinking RAF around them has fostered this unsavoury situation.
The fact that, they still have't been binned is perplexing.
Tony1963 said:
aeropilot said:
Maybe, more a case of a small minority trying to think they were still in the 1980's.....and being almost cut-off from the rest of the RAF in their own little bubble as a result of the desperation to keep the team going, in an ever shrinking RAF.
When the Reds were just part of CFS and were selected from the large cadre of CFS instructors, they were still a small cog in a bigger wheel...............with privatisation of advanced flying training and the effective demise of CFS as it was, the Reds have become an almost independent 'squadron' with their own base, and that elitism has been created out of the way the Reds have become. Yes, leadership should have recognised this, and that's no excuse, but, you can see how the circumstances of the way the Reds have been kept going in an ever shrinking RAF around them has fostered this unsavoury situation.
The fact that, they still have't been binned is perplexing.
Agreed, except they don’t have their own base around them. When the Reds were just part of CFS and were selected from the large cadre of CFS instructors, they were still a small cog in a bigger wheel...............with privatisation of advanced flying training and the effective demise of CFS as it was, the Reds have become an almost independent 'squadron' with their own base, and that elitism has been created out of the way the Reds have become. Yes, leadership should have recognised this, and that's no excuse, but, you can see how the circumstances of the way the Reds have been kept going in an ever shrinking RAF around them has fostered this unsavoury situation.
The fact that, they still have't been binned is perplexing.
I might be out of date here, but I suspect not:
The MAA was set up post-Nimrod crash to introduce modern quality auditing standards (EASA, CAA, FAA, ISO) to military aviation. One aim was to remove the old boy network that covered up root causes, protected individuals who’d messed up, etc.
And who manned the MAA? Yep, friends and ex-colleagues of pilots, engineering officers, senior officers. Result: perpetuation of the same issues.
What U.K. military aviation could do with is repeated audits by the FAA. They really wouldn’t know what has hit them.
The MAA was set up post-Nimrod crash to introduce modern quality auditing standards (EASA, CAA, FAA, ISO) to military aviation. One aim was to remove the old boy network that covered up root causes, protected individuals who’d messed up, etc.
And who manned the MAA? Yep, friends and ex-colleagues of pilots, engineering officers, senior officers. Result: perpetuation of the same issues.
What U.K. military aviation could do with is repeated audits by the FAA. They really wouldn’t know what has hit them.
Tony1963 said:
What U.K. military aviation could do with is repeated audits by the FAA. They really wouldn’t know what has hit them.
Not sure that would do much, given the lack of oversight the FAA has been shown up regarding various warbird accidents in the USA in recent years and has had to do a lot of back peddling as a result.You guys know better than me, but often senior officers of allied forces conduct readiness reviews, certainly in naval circles. You’d wonder if there isn’t a place for a similar external review process between military formation display teams. The Reds, Snowbirds, Roulettes, Angels & Thunderbirds reviewing each others’ safety practices. Perhaps national rivalry & ego might get in the way?
For example, I recall the NZ Navy having the combat readiness & firefighting capability on its ships reviewed by the Australian Navy.
For example, I recall the NZ Navy having the combat readiness & firefighting capability on its ships reviewed by the Australian Navy.
Geneve said:
So normal behaviour ?Wonder how much we pay to fund the red arrows ?
Just a willy waving outfit pardon the pun.
Simpo Two said:
So now they just need nine ace aerobatic pilots who are also 100% politically correct. How many fighter pilots does the RAF have to choose from?
Shouldn’t be too hard to find some middle class pilots who aren’t sexual predators.Not like we all go to work pissed up and showing the ladies our todgers shouting oi oi love.
aeropilot said:
Not sure that would do much, given the lack of oversight the FAA has been shown up regarding various warbird accidents in the USA in recent years and has had to do a lot of back peddling as a result.
Oh believe me, after ten years in the heavily audited civvie aviation industry, I know how very thorough the FAA are. I’ve been back in military aviation maintenance for nearly fifteen years, and it’s nothing like as thorough. Tony1963 said:
aeropilot said:
Not sure that would do much, given the lack of oversight the FAA has been shown up regarding various warbird accidents in the USA in recent years and has had to do a lot of back peddling as a result.
Oh believe me, after ten years in the heavily audited civvie aviation industry, I know how very thorough the FAA are. I’ve been back in military aviation maintenance for nearly fifteen years, and it’s nothing like as thorough. Tony1963 said:
aeropilot said:
Not sure that would do much, given the lack of oversight the FAA has been shown up regarding various warbird accidents in the USA in recent years and has had to do a lot of back peddling as a result.
Oh believe me, after ten years in the heavily audited civvie aviation industry, I know how very thorough the FAA are. I’ve been back in military aviation maintenance for nearly fifteen years, and it’s nothing like as thorough. Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff