Ba777 engine fire Las Vegas
Discussion
J4CKO said:
In the life of an engine like that does it ever get "a rebuild", i.e. stripped to bits and parts replaced or is it like a car engine that in its normal life the idea is it never gets opened up ?
If (as I suspect) this was a disc letting go rather than blades, then you wouldn't usually inspect it in service- it's far too difficult to confidently borescope in situ, and typically you life the disc to first crack - if you find a crack in service then you've left it far too long. Typically (but not always) the disc is hard lifed, ie once it has reached its declared life, it is scrapped and replaced. The declared (ie released to service) life is substantially less than the life demonstrated during testing.I suppose the vibration measurement and analysis system isn't quite good enough to be able to detect the start of crack propagation in a disc? It's not like a small crack will unbalance the disc, and you'd have to actually look at the natural frequency components of disc vibration to spot any change?
J4CKO said:
Mojocvh said:
J4CKO said:
Amazing how rare this actually is, thousands of airliners flying all round the world every minute of every day and this seems a really rare occurrence.
You just know the folk at Rolls Royce saw that pop up on the news and all breathed a sigh of relief when they firstly realised there we no fatalities, but mainly when they realised that plane billowing black smoke was fitted with the GE's
In the life of an engine like that does it ever get "a rebuild", i.e. stripped to bits and parts replaced or is it like a car engine that in its normal life the idea is it never gets opened up ?
I think the folk at RR would know almost about the same time frame as the crew if it was one of theirs You just know the folk at Rolls Royce saw that pop up on the news and all breathed a sigh of relief when they firstly realised there we no fatalities, but mainly when they realised that plane billowing black smoke was fitted with the GE's
In the life of an engine like that does it ever get "a rebuild", i.e. stripped to bits and parts replaced or is it like a car engine that in its normal life the idea is it never gets opened up ?
"BOOM !"
"Extinguisher, fresh pants, dust pan and brush required at coordinates...."
I monitor computer databases around the globe so its fairly familiar-ish territory, have had one on a rig in the North Sea shut down due to massive waves swamping the rig and screwing the equipment and get something innocuous like "Break received on communication channel", never "Guess what J4CKO a f
king massive wave just washed the server away "!" I would imagine it records some massive out of threshold vibrations, excessive heat, rpm abruptly dropping etc, wonder if that has a signature that alerts them straight away ? is the telemetry in real time, surely communications cant be that reliable worldwide, must be a really interesting job keeping track of that.
J4CKO said:
Mojocvh said:
J4CKO said:
Amazing how rare this actually is, thousands of airliners flying all round the world every minute of every day and this seems a really rare occurrence.
You just know the folk at Rolls Royce saw that pop up on the news and all breathed a sigh of relief when they firstly realised there we no fatalities, but mainly when they realised that plane billowing black smoke was fitted with the GE's
In the life of an engine like that does it ever get "a rebuild", i.e. stripped to bits and parts replaced or is it like a car engine that in its normal life the idea is it never gets opened up ?
I think the folk at RR would know almost about the same time frame as the crew if it was one of theirs You just know the folk at Rolls Royce saw that pop up on the news and all breathed a sigh of relief when they firstly realised there we no fatalities, but mainly when they realised that plane billowing black smoke was fitted with the GE's
In the life of an engine like that does it ever get "a rebuild", i.e. stripped to bits and parts replaced or is it like a car engine that in its normal life the idea is it never gets opened up ?
"BOOM !"
"Extinguisher, fresh pants, dust pan and brush required at coordinates...."
I monitor computer databases around the globe so its fairly familiar-ish territory, have had one on a rig in the North Sea shut down due to massive waves swamping the rig and screwing the equipment and get something innocuous like "Break received on communication channel", never "Guess what J4CKO a f
king massive wave just washed the server away "!" I would imagine it records some massive out of threshold vibrations, excessive heat, rpm abruptly dropping etc, wonder if that has a signature that alerts them straight away ? is the telemetry in real time, surely communications cant be that reliable worldwide, must be a really interesting job keeping track of that.
Zad said:
That's part of a TV documentary, more footage of it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j973645y5AA
When the engine is spooling up to full power it always raises the hairs on the back of my neck!
They do like to over hype things in documentaries....When the engine is spooling up to full power it always raises the hairs on the back of my neck!
I was closer than those in the building and protected only by my t-shirt.
Max_Torque said:
I suppose the vibration measurement and analysis system isn't quite good enough to be able to detect the start of crack propagation in a disc? It's not like a small crack will unbalance the disc, and you'd have to actually look at the natural frequency components of disc vibration to spot any change?
You've said it; the software should spot the change in harmonics as the engine spools up and down at the beginning and end of a flight, although the error band may mask it to begin with. Even with this level of monitoring you can still get an outlier failing too fast for the monitoring to catch it, just like here. A perfect storm if you will.Long term remote monitoring of vibration levels of rotating equipment in non-aviation sectors can certainly detect deterioration prior to catastrophic failure, but no beggar willingly reviews the data. Alarm trigger points are useful, this must surely be routine in the aviation sector.
J4CKO said:
Yeah, I know each one has telemetry, I wonder what message the engine relays in that situation ?
"BOOM !"
"Extinguisher, fresh pants, dust pan and brush required at coordinates...."
I monitor computer databases around the globe so its fairly familiar-ish territory, have had one on a rig in the North Sea shut down due to massive waves swamping the rig and screwing the equipment and get something innocuous like "Break received on communication channel", never "Guess what J4CKO a fking massive wave just washed the server away "!"
I would imagine it records some massive out of threshold vibrations, excessive heat, rpm abruptly dropping etc, wonder if that has a signature that alerts them straight away ? is the telemetry in real time, surely communications cant be that reliable worldwide, must be a really interesting job keeping track of that.
Was it an oracle DB by any chance? I do love some if the error message sent from servers / DBs. I heard of one instance were every night around 7:00pm a server was having a power error and then approx 10 min later rebooted itself. Had the server guys really scratching their heads. Turns out it was a cleaner unplugging he box and hoovering up then plugging it back in! lol"BOOM !"
"Extinguisher, fresh pants, dust pan and brush required at coordinates...."
I monitor computer databases around the globe so its fairly familiar-ish territory, have had one on a rig in the North Sea shut down due to massive waves swamping the rig and screwing the equipment and get something innocuous like "Break received on communication channel", never "Guess what J4CKO a f
king massive wave just washed the server away "!" I would imagine it records some massive out of threshold vibrations, excessive heat, rpm abruptly dropping etc, wonder if that has a signature that alerts them straight away ? is the telemetry in real time, surely communications cant be that reliable worldwide, must be a really interesting job keeping track of that.
Anyway back to topic. Great work by the crew for getting everyone out.
5150 said:
Hull losses, regardless of the circumstances, never look good on an airline's record. BA have had two in the last 8 years (777 at LHR and 747 at JNB). I'd imagine they'd be keen to chuck a load of money at not having a third.
I am pretty sure the JNB one would not have been a hull loss on a newer airframe though?
surveyor said:
Is the law firm German? Boeing rep was in Germany apparentlyChrisgr31 said:
surveyor said:
Is the law firm German? Boeing rep was in Germany apparentlyTrevatanus said:
5150 said:
Hull losses, regardless of the circumstances, never look good on an airline's record. BA have had two in the last 8 years (777 at LHR and 747 at JNB). I'd imagine they'd be keen to chuck a load of money at not having a third.
I am pretty sure the JNB one would not have been a hull loss on a newer airframe though?Sheepshanks said:
Sorry if I'm missing something, but that seems an odd comment - I imagine Boeing reps are in all major markets all the time.
I was wondering why they would be referring to a Germany based rep when Boeing is a US based company, and BA is UK based. Would assume (wrongly) the Boeing rep would be from the UK or US thats all.Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff