Right, TopGun is on the telly, educate me about F14 Tomcats

[Eric Mc]

The swing wing mechanism puts a fair amount of additional weight into the airframe. In the 1960s (when swing wing designs came to the fore), it was perceived that the additional weight was worth the extra performance gain. By the 1970s, fly by wire and other techniques were able to give the same or better performance range without the need to use swing wing technology.

[rhinochopig]

Dr Imran T said:

rhinochopig said:

dr_gn said:

rhinochopig said:

dr_gn said:

Penguinracer said:

If you look at the Tornado & the F-14 it does raise the question of whether Variable Geometry's (VG) minuses (weight, impact on wingloading, complexity, maintence overhead) begin to outweigh its pluses (improved performance & behaviour at both ends of the flight envelope)when scaled down to fighter size. Perhaps VG's benefits really become most apparent when it's scaled up to heavy bomber (B-1) or airliner dimensions.

I think that question is best answered by looking at how many known "conventional" variable geometry aircraft are currently under development, or when the last one entered service (Tu160? mid-eighties?).

Ah but things have moved on - VG will be replaced (eventually if they ever get the tech to work) by active aero-elastic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-53_Active_Aeroelast... Research in this area is ongoing.

Which is why I said "conventional" variable geometry aircraft.

and I was explaining one of the reasons why no conventional VG planes are being developed.

why is this the case then? it does appear that a lot of 'modern' aircraft have moved away from VG.

Correct me if I am wrong, but aircraft such as the Eurofighter are now developed to be unstable in flight. This 'instability' makes the aircraft more agile and able to change direction quicker etc.

Is it just down to complexities that new aircraft don't have VG? it seemed like such a good idea

Lots of reasons:

• As you say - modern airframes are designed to be unstable which gives you more than adequate the manoeuvrability - the limit is the bag of meat up front. Thrust vectoring is also a simpler solution.
• Speed is no longer the advantage it once was. The VG aircraft were designed to deliver a payload at high speed hugging the ground avoiding Russian radar. Stealth and improved G2A weapons have negated this methodology somewhat.
• Maintenance costs - governments want minimum through life costs for airframes which means the aim is to reduce manpower costs for maintaining kit.
• Parasitic weight and complexity
• Advancements in CFD modelling allows the aero of new aircraft to be designed to be much more efficient in terms of balancing speed, range and manoeuvrability.

[Dan_1981]

I've found a couple for you.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8530165....

[Dr Imran T]

Impressive stuff chaps - you are a very knowledgeable bunch indeed.

Here is the link to the F14 exploding after breaking the sound barrier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qMtnFtB38I

cheers

[fadeaway]

skyslimit said:

speedtwelve said:

Here it is, gentlemen, Top Gun remade in 60 seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FNUKi27zEw

Good, but even better if you can spare 1:48 is this - Top Gun remade in Lego!

Just brilliant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETSQepNh_Ek

Awesome. Both of them are just brilliant! Well worth 2 minutes 48 seconds of anyones life. (though the first one covers the whole "story" better!)

[ali_khl]

A bunch of photographers on Airliners.net have posted some badass pics of the IRIAF Tomcats -




http://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran---Air/Grumman-...


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran---Air/Grumman-...


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran---Air/Grumman-...


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran---Air/Grumman-...


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran---Air/Grumman-...


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran---Air/Grumman-...


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran---Air/Grumman-...


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran---Air/Grumman-...


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran---Air/Grumman-...


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran---Air/Grumman-...


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran---Air/Grumman-...

Edited by ali_khl on Sunday 14th March 00:14

[smack]

Cool!

[speedtwelve]

Amazing that the Iranians can keep a complex 30+ year-old fast-jet serviceable with no spares/engineering support from the manufacturer. The maint hrs vs flt hrs for the USN examples was bad enough towards the end.

[Eric Mc]

Iranians are very clever people.

[TASS]

speedtwelve said:

Amazing that the Iranians can keep a complex 30+ year-old fast-jet serviceable with no spares/engineering support from the manufacturer. The maint hrs vs flt hrs for the USN examples was bad enough towards the end.

Pretty large lim logs and acceptable deferred defects I should imagine

BTW, are they kruger flaps on the leading edge?

Edited by TASS on Sunday 14th March 10:05

[speedtwelve]

The deployed inboard sections in some of the pics above are canards, and were fitted to the 'A' model. Grumman called them 'glove vanes'. They were designed to deploy when the wings were swept and the jet was supersonic, in order to counteract the rearwards shift of the centre of pressure. The USN deactivated them as they were maintenance intensive, and the aeroplane flew OK without them. Later production F14s weren't fitted with them.

EDIT: Having thought about it, you probably meant the full-span leading edge slats, rather than the glove vanes, which are conventional slats rather than Kruegers.

Edited by speedtwelve on Sunday 14th March 10:29

[TASS]

Of course, Krugers develop lift don't they so would not come out in swept config

[speedtwelve]

Interesting to see the glove vanes deployed in some of the above pics where the jets are subsonic. Originally they were designed to deploy automatically at M1.4. I doubt the Iranians were doing formation photo sorties at those speeds

[hidetheelephants]

ali_khl said:

A bunch of photographers on Airliners.net have posted some badass pics of the IRIAF Tomcats -


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran---Air/Grumman-...

Edited by ali_khl on Sunday 14th March 00:14

That's a fairly baggy looking AAM, seems to have been kicked up and down the armoury; is it one of the Iranian Sidewinder ripoffs?

[ali_khl]

The Alphas have a bomb mode selector which enables swept wings at slower speeds (all Tomcats had basic bomb capability built into them) . Also you can manually override and position the wings, as was done with this refuelling shot from the KC-707.

As for the AIM-9, thats just one they slapped on for display used for crew-training; its at an AF open-day. The IACI do produce updated sidewinders, sparrows & phoenix.

Edited by ali_khl on Sunday 14th March 17:12

[Ginetta G15 Girl]

ali_khl said:

As for the AIM-9, thats just one they slapped on for display used for crew-training;

Looks more like a PL-7 to me, rather than a Sidewinder.

[hidetheelephants]

ali_khl said:

The Alphas have a bomb mode selector which enables swept wings at slower speeds (all Tomcats had basic bomb capability built into them) . Also you can manually override and position the wings, as was done with this refuelling shot from the KC-707.

As for the AIM-9, thats just one they slapped on for display used for crew-training; its at an AF open-day. The IACI do produce updated sidewinders, sparrows & phoenix.

Edited by ali_khl on Sunday 14th March 17:12

I hope they've done some comprehensive re-engineering; keeping any of the original electronics functional is a sport best saved for masochists, and the idea of trying to use 40 year old rocket motors scares me. Bloody big warhead though, enough to bag a B52 if necessary.

[rykard]

eharding said:

The original version of the "Fighter Fling 2004" video, a compilation of a lot of crew-filmed video together with some excellent historic test-flight footage, as the F-14 community realised that the end was in sight.

Most of it is on YouTube in various pieces.

The soundtrack gets a bit shouty-metal in places, but still worth watching to the end.

Far better than Top Gun.

400+MB, and hosted on my account. Please 'Save As'.

http://www.plus7minus5.co.uk/video/misc/FighterFli...

The download isn't working. Is there a problem?

[Ayahuasca]

speedtwelve said:

Amazing that the Iranians can keep a complex 30+ year-old fast-jet serviceable with no spares/engineering support from the manufacturer. The maint hrs vs flt hrs for the USN examples was bad enough towards the end.

I imagine that keeping an a/c in flying condition is one thing, but keeping it in top fighting condition, with all avionics and weapons systems working perfectly, is something else. Maybe.

[speedtwelve]

rykard said:

The download isn't working. Is there a problem?

Ed withdrew the video after his download limit was blown by a factor of eleventy million! It's easily available on YouTube, along with other 'Fighter Fling' years.