Are you allowed to do this? (Boat/living off grid content)
Discussion
Yottie here. In the UK it's just not practical. What are you going to do about electricity (you are OK with running essentials, powering up by running your engine/wind/solar) but forget things like TV's/fridges/computers on constantly unless you have a very big/posh boat (or an annoying generator) in which case the mortgage trap is less of a concern! You also need to get hundreds of litres of fresh water/diesel/gas bottes on board, and your rubbish off. Realistically you will be constantly on the move just keeping up with this stuff, or running your engine a lot just so you have hot water, so you might as well go down the narrow boat route.
Yes extended cruising is fine, where every few days you are able to visit a marina, and get all of the stuff on and off the boat as required. Ditto plenty of liveaboards in marinas or up creeks etc, but they can get ashore. Having a boat in a marina, with a Brompton bike for shopping trips, shower block nearby, mains electricity to hand for running your calorifier (hot water), charging your batteries, running your PC etc is perfectly doable, but living on an anchor, permanently and practically just isn't going to happen.
Yes extended cruising is fine, where every few days you are able to visit a marina, and get all of the stuff on and off the boat as required. Ditto plenty of liveaboards in marinas or up creeks etc, but they can get ashore. Having a boat in a marina, with a Brompton bike for shopping trips, shower block nearby, mains electricity to hand for running your calorifier (hot water), charging your batteries, running your PC etc is perfectly doable, but living on an anchor, permanently and practically just isn't going to happen.
Approaching this as the OP suggested - a largely theoretical issue of legality/practicality, rather than how enjoyable or 'liveable' it would actually be as a yacht cruise:
Legally (for UK waters) and practically there is nothing that stops you just buying a boat and dropping anchor wherever you want - the default status is that the seafloor from the low-water mark to the 12-mile limit is part of the Crown Estate. But various legal cases have held that anchoring in 'navigable waters' below the low-water mark is a common right that cannot be unduly restricted.
(Edit: I've just checked the official view of the Crown Estate, which is that "anchoring in the course of navigation is part of the public right". So that immediately puts permanent liveaboard anchoring in a grey area, since you are not navigating.)
There are local common laws, bylaws and national/international regulations that modify that arrangement - by ancient arrangement the Crown has ownership of certain riverbeds as do estates like the Duchy of Cornwall. There are royal harbours (naval bases like Portsmouth and Plymouth) which have jurisdiction over adjacent coastal bits of water. And there are all the chartered/legally designated harbours, estuaries and other ports where the harbour master has the right to collect anchoring and mooring fees. There are some places where anchoring is forbidden on environmental grounds (the anchors disturb delicate ecosystems on the seabed). Then there are the legal restrictions - it's against international rules to moor in a designated shipping lane (the nautical equivalent of parking in the middle lane of a motorway) whatever your ancient right as a Briton says.
So this means you don't have to go as far as finding a spot outside the 12-mile limit (as Sealand and Radio Caroline etc.) did. They were specifically trying to avoid British laws. If you just want to live somewhere, it is perfectly legal to find a bay, estuary or other stretch of water where you won't be a hazard to navigation, drop the anchor and never move again.
Of course a lot of places have the legal right to collect anchor/mooring fees but don't always bother. Some large harbours will vigorously patrol the popular anchorages and leap on any boat that so much as pauses, while leaving those that anchor in the quieter spots for a few hours or even a weekend. But if the harbour master notices a boat that's been there for a week/month then they may well be very keen to collect the due fees. And it's all well and good being able to physically anchor the boat somewhere, but how are you going to get to/from it? The foreshore will almost certainly be private property. What about your water supply and waste disposal? When it's noticed that you're regularly ferrying stuff to/from your anchored boat in a permanent living arrangement that will also get red flags/pound signs fluttering in the office of the local harbour authority or landowner.
The practicalities are somewhat different. You may be able to anchor in open waters outside the jurisdiction of any harbour authorities or landowners but you wouldn't enjoy it. Unless you're Radio Caroline, there's no real point in just anchoring in the middle of the North Sea. It's exposed to wind, wave and other ships, will be very uncomfortable in all but the calmest weather and would need specialist anchoring gear to hold the ground through a winter gale (as used by lightships etc.) And while it may be legal, I suspect that HM Coast Guard, Border Force, the RN, the Environment Agency etc. would get very 'interested' in a boat permanently moored and occupied in open waters off the coast. You may find that 'the Crown' starts using its powers as the owner of the land into which your anchor is buried to either ask you to move on or charge you for the privilege of staying.
But if you just want somewhere to live permanently/semi-permanently then, with a suitably sheltered anchorage with good holding ground (not bare rock), and good (but ordinary) anchoring gear, it's quite feasible from a 'will the boat stay there' point. A friend of mine did a round-Britain cruise on his 38ft sailing yacht in short bursts of a few weeks when he had the time, and left the boat at an anchorage off Anglesey over winter (several hundred miles from where he lived) where it sat quite happily through some nasty gales. He put out a second anchor with a lot of heavy chain and it was fine.
Legally (for UK waters) and practically there is nothing that stops you just buying a boat and dropping anchor wherever you want - the default status is that the seafloor from the low-water mark to the 12-mile limit is part of the Crown Estate. But various legal cases have held that anchoring in 'navigable waters' below the low-water mark is a common right that cannot be unduly restricted.
(Edit: I've just checked the official view of the Crown Estate, which is that "anchoring in the course of navigation is part of the public right". So that immediately puts permanent liveaboard anchoring in a grey area, since you are not navigating.)
There are local common laws, bylaws and national/international regulations that modify that arrangement - by ancient arrangement the Crown has ownership of certain riverbeds as do estates like the Duchy of Cornwall. There are royal harbours (naval bases like Portsmouth and Plymouth) which have jurisdiction over adjacent coastal bits of water. And there are all the chartered/legally designated harbours, estuaries and other ports where the harbour master has the right to collect anchoring and mooring fees. There are some places where anchoring is forbidden on environmental grounds (the anchors disturb delicate ecosystems on the seabed). Then there are the legal restrictions - it's against international rules to moor in a designated shipping lane (the nautical equivalent of parking in the middle lane of a motorway) whatever your ancient right as a Briton says.
So this means you don't have to go as far as finding a spot outside the 12-mile limit (as Sealand and Radio Caroline etc.) did. They were specifically trying to avoid British laws. If you just want to live somewhere, it is perfectly legal to find a bay, estuary or other stretch of water where you won't be a hazard to navigation, drop the anchor and never move again.
Of course a lot of places have the legal right to collect anchor/mooring fees but don't always bother. Some large harbours will vigorously patrol the popular anchorages and leap on any boat that so much as pauses, while leaving those that anchor in the quieter spots for a few hours or even a weekend. But if the harbour master notices a boat that's been there for a week/month then they may well be very keen to collect the due fees. And it's all well and good being able to physically anchor the boat somewhere, but how are you going to get to/from it? The foreshore will almost certainly be private property. What about your water supply and waste disposal? When it's noticed that you're regularly ferrying stuff to/from your anchored boat in a permanent living arrangement that will also get red flags/pound signs fluttering in the office of the local harbour authority or landowner.
The practicalities are somewhat different. You may be able to anchor in open waters outside the jurisdiction of any harbour authorities or landowners but you wouldn't enjoy it. Unless you're Radio Caroline, there's no real point in just anchoring in the middle of the North Sea. It's exposed to wind, wave and other ships, will be very uncomfortable in all but the calmest weather and would need specialist anchoring gear to hold the ground through a winter gale (as used by lightships etc.) And while it may be legal, I suspect that HM Coast Guard, Border Force, the RN, the Environment Agency etc. would get very 'interested' in a boat permanently moored and occupied in open waters off the coast. You may find that 'the Crown' starts using its powers as the owner of the land into which your anchor is buried to either ask you to move on or charge you for the privilege of staying.
But if you just want somewhere to live permanently/semi-permanently then, with a suitably sheltered anchorage with good holding ground (not bare rock), and good (but ordinary) anchoring gear, it's quite feasible from a 'will the boat stay there' point. A friend of mine did a round-Britain cruise on his 38ft sailing yacht in short bursts of a few weeks when he had the time, and left the boat at an anchorage off Anglesey over winter (several hundred miles from where he lived) where it sat quite happily through some nasty gales. He put out a second anchor with a lot of heavy chain and it was fine.
Edited by 2xChevrons on Tuesday 1st October 10:19
Living on a boat is always going to be a compromise compared with living on land, for reasons mentioned above and also the lack of space in a narrowboat or caravan. See this series by https://www.youtube.com/c/RobbieCumming
I don't see much point in living on a boat unless you're going to cruise; otherwise, the compromises make no sense. If the goal is just to be 'off-grid' then a cabin in the woods might be more sensible.
I don't see much point in living on a boat unless you're going to cruise; otherwise, the compromises make no sense. If the goal is just to be 'off-grid' then a cabin in the woods might be more sensible.
Having worked in a few inland marinas I should add that the romantic notion of untying and taking breakfast in a different idyllic spot up the river each day is quickly forgotten and most live aboards become nearly permanently tied to their berths. Once the mundanity of every day life takes priority.
Winters can be cold damp and miserable on the river whereas summers can be hot and the rivers and marinas overrun with visitors keen to peer through open windows or even pose for photos onboard other people’s boats.
It’s not always like that but nor is it the carefree existence some try to claim it is
Winters can be cold damp and miserable on the river whereas summers can be hot and the rivers and marinas overrun with visitors keen to peer through open windows or even pose for photos onboard other people’s boats.
It’s not always like that but nor is it the carefree existence some try to claim it is
Personally I would choose a narrow boat or cruiser to live on.
You will need to obviously buy it initially, insure it and pay for a yearly license but after that it's just everyday living expenses.
Moving every 2 weeks would mean you see new places regularly which is the whole point of it.
No tide or waves to worry about.
You will need to obviously buy it initially, insure it and pay for a yearly license but after that it's just everyday living expenses.
Moving every 2 weeks would mean you see new places regularly which is the whole point of it.
No tide or waves to worry about.
GreatGranny said:
Personally I would choose a narrow boat or cruiser to live on.
You will need to obviously buy it initially, insure it and pay for a yearly license but after that it's just everyday living expenses.
And a BSS test if inland, but that's only every 4 years and costs about £150 (unless work needs to be done).You will need to obviously buy it initially, insure it and pay for a yearly license but after that it's just everyday living expenses.
A former Broads hire cruiser would offer lots of room for the money, but would ideally have a refit.
There are a few people living on rusty old boats in the estuary near me. It's right on a major foot/cycle path so its not like they are hidden out of the way. I don't know the legality of it, but they have been there a number of years so its either legal or not worth the council getting involved in. They have been run aground on a Spring tide to they presumably will only be be able to get off on a similar high tide., if at all.
No water/electric services to the boats, but they have all got makeshift gangplanks for access to land. One of them even has created a garden on the river bank in front of his boat.
Google map photo
No water/electric services to the boats, but they have all got makeshift gangplanks for access to land. One of them even has created a garden on the river bank in front of his boat.
Google map photo
This sort of thing might be a better idea than trying to live on a boat:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-63304989
Or this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3gv2kx7q02o
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-63304989
Or this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3gv2kx7q02o
Edited by Skodillac on Tuesday 1st October 16:34
I’ve often pondered the same, but the big constraint for me - and, I guess, probably most people - is work. I don’t have the luxury of WFH, and whilst there is a canal network fairly close to work it’d be challenging to have to keep upping sticks I suspect - how long is it before you’re allowed to return to the same mooring spot?
There are some seriously nice narrowboats out there, but I’d imagine it’d end up costing pretty much the same as the average house!
There are some seriously nice narrowboats out there, but I’d imagine it’d end up costing pretty much the same as the average house!
nuyorican said:
Like, when you look at the stereotypical anchor, I'd always assumed that the idea is to dig into something, which then made me wonder how they got it back up again and not get stuck? It seems it's more about the weight of the chain, and also I guess, what the wind is doing.
Correct.A typical anchor isn't just a hook or plough that bodily holds the ship in place via the chain. It's the chain that does most of the work and the anchor's purpose is to securely hold the end of the chain in place and resist the load of the chain, which is far less than the total load of the vessel.
You pay out far more anchor chain than you need just for the anchor to touch the bottom (a minimum length of three times the depth of the water is the rule of thumb).
A vessel riding to an anchor will have its chain curving down through the water to the seabed (not a straight vertical or diagonal line) and then a good length of chain lying on the seabed running to the anchor. The vessel will naturally turn so it's head on to wind, tide, current and sea (whichever has the most effect). As the vessel is pushed back, it will lift more chain off the seabed and this extra weight being lifted counteracts the force pushing the vessel back. The more force, the more chain is lifted and equilibrium is maintained.
A suitably weighty chain of an appropriate length will mean that little to no tugging force is ever actually transmitted to the anchor itself, only its share of the weight of the ungrounded chain (shared with the deck fittings of the vessel at the other end). The old nautical adage goes that you could ride out a gale with a pin in the sand so long as you could lay out enough chain.
When it comes to leave, the ship either motors forward or winds in its chain (or both) until it is above its anchor and the chain is running vertically. Anchors are designed to resist horizontal force, not vertical, so this enables the anchor to be extracted from the seabed (all being well).
Southerner said:
I’ve often pondered the same, but the big constraint for me - and, I guess, probably most people - is work. I don’t have the luxury of WFH, and whilst there is a canal network fairly close to work it’d be challenging to have to keep upping sticks I suspect - how long is it before you’re allowed to return to the same mooring spot?
You could keep it in a marina (or bankside) that allows liveaboards, but of course it would add to the cost.2xChevrons said:
Correct.
A typical anchor isn't just a hook or plough that bodily holds the ship in place via the chain. It's the chain that does most of the work and the anchor's purpose is to securely hold the end of the chain in place and resist the load of the chain, which is far less than the total load of the vessel.
You pay out far more anchor chain than you need just for the anchor to touch the bottom (a minimum length of three times the depth of the water is the rule of thumb).
A vessel riding to an anchor will have its chain curving down through the water to the seabed (not a straight vertical or diagonal line) and then a good length of chain lying on the seabed running to the anchor. The vessel will naturally turn so it's head on to wind, tide, current and sea (whichever has the most effect). As the vessel is pushed back, it will lift more chain off the seabed and this extra weight being lifted counteracts the force pushing the vessel back. The more force, the more chain is lifted and equilibrium is maintained.
A suitably weighty chain of an appropriate length will mean that little to no tugging force is ever actually transmitted to the anchor itself, only its share of the weight of the ungrounded chain (shared with the deck fittings of the vessel at the other end). The old nautical adage goes that you could ride out a gale with a pin in the sand so long as you could lay out enough chain.
When it comes to leave, the ship either motors forward or winds in its chain (or both) until it is above its anchor and the chain is running vertically. Anchors are designed to resist horizontal force, not vertical, so this enables the anchor to be extracted from the seabed (all being well).
That's a great explanation!A typical anchor isn't just a hook or plough that bodily holds the ship in place via the chain. It's the chain that does most of the work and the anchor's purpose is to securely hold the end of the chain in place and resist the load of the chain, which is far less than the total load of the vessel.
You pay out far more anchor chain than you need just for the anchor to touch the bottom (a minimum length of three times the depth of the water is the rule of thumb).
A vessel riding to an anchor will have its chain curving down through the water to the seabed (not a straight vertical or diagonal line) and then a good length of chain lying on the seabed running to the anchor. The vessel will naturally turn so it's head on to wind, tide, current and sea (whichever has the most effect). As the vessel is pushed back, it will lift more chain off the seabed and this extra weight being lifted counteracts the force pushing the vessel back. The more force, the more chain is lifted and equilibrium is maintained.
A suitably weighty chain of an appropriate length will mean that little to no tugging force is ever actually transmitted to the anchor itself, only its share of the weight of the ungrounded chain (shared with the deck fittings of the vessel at the other end). The old nautical adage goes that you could ride out a gale with a pin in the sand so long as you could lay out enough chain.
When it comes to leave, the ship either motors forward or winds in its chain (or both) until it is above its anchor and the chain is running vertically. Anchors are designed to resist horizontal force, not vertical, so this enables the anchor to be extracted from the seabed (all being well).
nuyorican said:
Southerner said:
I’ve often pondered the same, but the big constraint for me - and, I guess, probably most people - is work. I don’t have the luxury of WFH, and whilst there is a canal network fairly close to work it’d be challenging to have to keep upping sticks I suspect - how long is it before you’re allowed to return to the same mooring spot?
There are some seriously nice narrowboats out there, but I’d imagine it’d end up costing pretty much the same as the average house!
Me neither, it's just a bit of idle curiosity really.There are some seriously nice narrowboats out there, but I’d imagine it’d end up costing pretty much the same as the average house!
With the moving your boat thing, it appears to be left deliberately ambiguous. You have to be seen to be purposefully moving around the network or some other words to that effect. Like, I suppose it's to stop you just moving it one mile from A to B every fortnight. Which to be honest, is what I first envisioned when I first started researching it. So yeah, it would be difficult to hold down a job, not to mention if you also have a car, having to move that all the time too...
I do get the feeling that the CRT (Canal and Rivers Trust) ultimately don't want people living on boats and would rather it was just pleasure boaters going out for a week's holiday etc. I might have got the wrong end of the stick there so apologies to CRT if that's not the case.
aeropilot said:
Have you been watching the Canal Boat Diaries repeats on Freeview CH27 in recent weeks, as that's exactly what that guy is doing, and he seems to meet up with plenty of others doing exactly the same thing.
Se my link above - Robbie Cumming.I have some sympathy with the CRT getting tougher - if they are - with some liveaboards because some are little more than traveller camps, unlicenced, rubbish scattered about and abusive to other river users. They make the area unpleasant.
river_rat said:
2xChevrons said:
Correct.
A typical anchor isn't just a hook or plough that bodily holds the ship in place via the chain. It's the chain that does most of the work and the anchor's purpose is to securely hold the end of the chain in place and resist the load of the chain, which is far less than the total load of the vessel.
You pay out far more anchor chain than you need just for the anchor to touch the bottom (a minimum length of three times the depth of the water is the rule of thumb).
A vessel riding to an anchor will have its chain curving down through the water to the seabed (not a straight vertical or diagonal line) and then a good length of chain lying on the seabed running to the anchor. The vessel will naturally turn so it's head on to wind, tide, current and sea (whichever has the most effect). As the vessel is pushed back, it will lift more chain off the seabed and this extra weight being lifted counteracts the force pushing the vessel back. The more force, the more chain is lifted and equilibrium is maintained.
A suitably weighty chain of an appropriate length will mean that little to no tugging force is ever actually transmitted to the anchor itself, only its share of the weight of the ungrounded chain (shared with the deck fittings of the vessel at the other end). The old nautical adage goes that you could ride out a gale with a pin in the sand so long as you could lay out enough chain.
When it comes to leave, the ship either motors forward or winds in its chain (or both) until it is above its anchor and the chain is running vertically. Anchors are designed to resist horizontal force, not vertical, so this enables the anchor to be extracted from the seabed (all being well).
That's a great explanation!A typical anchor isn't just a hook or plough that bodily holds the ship in place via the chain. It's the chain that does most of the work and the anchor's purpose is to securely hold the end of the chain in place and resist the load of the chain, which is far less than the total load of the vessel.
You pay out far more anchor chain than you need just for the anchor to touch the bottom (a minimum length of three times the depth of the water is the rule of thumb).
A vessel riding to an anchor will have its chain curving down through the water to the seabed (not a straight vertical or diagonal line) and then a good length of chain lying on the seabed running to the anchor. The vessel will naturally turn so it's head on to wind, tide, current and sea (whichever has the most effect). As the vessel is pushed back, it will lift more chain off the seabed and this extra weight being lifted counteracts the force pushing the vessel back. The more force, the more chain is lifted and equilibrium is maintained.
A suitably weighty chain of an appropriate length will mean that little to no tugging force is ever actually transmitted to the anchor itself, only its share of the weight of the ungrounded chain (shared with the deck fittings of the vessel at the other end). The old nautical adage goes that you could ride out a gale with a pin in the sand so long as you could lay out enough chain.
When it comes to leave, the ship either motors forward or winds in its chain (or both) until it is above its anchor and the chain is running vertically. Anchors are designed to resist horizontal force, not vertical, so this enables the anchor to be extracted from the seabed (all being well).
Once there is a decent breeze, the chain is all off the bottom in nearly a straight line.
Today it will be blowing about 30knots in our bay.
That's a fair amount of force on the anchor.
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