waiter unhappy with tip

[CustardOnChips]

DickyC said:

Tipping started in Britain and was well established by the 17th Century.

Now it's part of the occasion. It's theatre. If a place expects you to tip and you don't want to, go somewhere else; McDonald's or somewhere.

Sake.

Tipping is theatre? WTF is that supposed to mean?

Do you make a big fuss and grand gesture of leaving a few quid for the poor urchin that had the honour of serving a gentleman of such distinction as yourself?

[DickyC]

petemurphy said:

DickyC said:

Would you care to expand on that?

In my experience, harumphing isn't a good debating technique.

tbh its all been said above - why dont you tip other professions, why do you feel the need to tip, are you just trying to be the big man etc etc

great word harumphing though!

I am a product of my upbringing and, I suspect, older than the PH norm which may have some bearing on my view.

My mother's parents were a carpenter and housewife who were very careful with money. They would tip the coalman and other delivery men. My father's parents didn't have two ha'pence to rub together but would give a Christmas box to the dustmen and coalman and so on. When my folks wanted to 'get on in life' they saw that tipping taxi drivers and waiters and waitresses was the norm In the world they wanted to be part of, that aspect was a simple expansion of the world they knew. That was the way they brought up their children and we accepted it. I know that as a car delivery driver over the last three or four years I am usually treated as the lowest of the low. When a customer out in the sticks offered me a lift to the station and gave me a tenner I was over the moon. My one and only tip.

[boyse7en]

Olivera said:

~10% tip is the UK societal norm for tipping in a restaurant, so either pay that or stick to McDonalds or the chip shop.

So why do you exclude McD's and Chip Shops from tipping?

How do you decide which establishments warrant a tip? This is the problem with tipping - its a minefield of social expectation and knowledge.


As an alternative viewpoint, as a student I worked for a campsite during the holidays. I used to help some of the more elderly campers with towing their vans onto the site and putting up awnings and whatnot. Was often offered a tip but never accepted them, as my opinion was that I was already being paid by the campsite owner to provide a service. It just felt morally wrong to charge people extra for what they had already paid for.

[RTB]

I always feel a bit aggrieved about tipping, but then again I don't feel aggrieved when my employer gives me a 10-20% annual bonus, often for nothing more than doing my job competently.

I suspect I may be a massively entitled hypocrite

I still need to receive really good food/service before I part with a tip though.

[CustardOnChips]

steveo3002 said:

madness ....tip someone for carrying a plate of food 30 secs across the room

get a live saving operation, nurses wipng your bum etc - nothing

Exactly why I don't understand the practice.

What constitutes good service? All I want from waiting staff is to let the kitchen know what I ordered and bring it to my table. I don't need bothering inbetween. If I need something I will ask.

Lots of places don't even have to write it down now. They just tap it into a device.

I think a lot of people on here like to think tipping makes them somehow superior to the people they are tipping.

[tannhauser]

CustardOnChips said:

DickyC said:

Tipping started in Britain and was well established by the 17th Century.

Now it's part of the occasion. It's theatre. If a place expects you to tip and you don't want to, go somewhere else; McDonald's or somewhere.

Sake.

Tipping is theatre? WTF is that supposed to mean?

Do you make a big fuss and grand gesture of leaving a few quid for the poor urchin that had the honour of serving a gentleman of such distinction as yourself?

My thoughts exactly, but much more eloquently put!

[Cotty]

Sheepshanks said:

Cotty said:

Just out of interest how many of the people in this thread received tips for the job you do. I don't.

Would you include bonus's in that? I imagine most PHers get those. I do, and my wife who used to be a civil servant, got two levels of bonus, one was department wide, and the other was personal.

But my employer pays that. They don't pay me minimal wage and expect our customers to top me up.

So by that rational the restaurant could pay their staff a bonus for good service.

[Mr Roper]

Sheepshanks said:

Mr Roper said:

I visit States/Florida fairly often so I'm quite used to tipping. Last time while staying in the tourist trap my light lunch bill came to under $40...Handed over a $100 bill and then waited ages for his return. In the end I had to hunt him down to which he explained that it's not uncommon for the change to be left as a tip "as its the norm here".
Was promptly told to not be a cheeky piss taking little st and to give me my money. No tip left on that occasion.

That's very rare though.

Back over again in few weeks for more

They normally say "do you need change?" If you gave the money in the usual folder it's possible he hadn't looked at it.

Nope...This one was chancing it. When confronted about the amount of tip he decided to keep he replied in a patronising way that this kind of tip was the norm around here. Maybe in the Ivy but a couple of club sandwichs in at TGI's is taking the piss and he knew it.

[Sheepshanks]

Cotty said:

But my employer pays that. They don't pay me minimal wage and expect our customers to top me up.

So by that rational the restaurant could pay their staff a bonus for good service.

At the end of the day it's the customer that's paying either way.

[fiju]

Mr Roper said:

Nope...This one was chancing it. When confronted about the amount of tip he decided to keep he replied in a patronising way that this kind of tip was the norm around here. Maybe in the Ivy but a couple of club sandwichs in at TGI's is taking the piss and he knew it.

I've had a friend tell me something similar that happened to him whilst in miami. He went looking in the kitchen for the waiter and demanded all of his change back. The tt ended up with no tip.

Back to Britain though... Just why would you tip someone who gets paid to do their job? This is just more Americanisation, where somehow this bullst custom has encroached into society. fk that. We have a minimum wage in this country, if you want to earn more, work harder and become smarter. And for you fkwits who like pissing your money away, you're only exacerbating this bullst idea and making the lowest paid in society feel more entitled. There's a reason why they're minimum wage jobs.

[petemurphy]

at least waiters can give a better service and may be deserve something - what to taxi drivers do? ooh thanks for getting me to the right place? unless i get in and say follow that car i dont see why they should be tipped.

although i do as im scared of them..

[sgrimshaw]

Cotty said:

I have not ordered food in Witherspoons for a while but if I remember you order and pay at the bar. You give them your table number and they bring you your food. I am assuming no tip as you pay the price on the menu before you get you food.

Fair point but not necessarily the case. Some 'Spoons allow tabs.

However, interesting point about paying up front.

So no tip when you pay in advance, even though you might get the best service you've ever had .... unlikely, but possible.

[anonymous-user]

boyse7en said:

Olivera said:

~10% tip is the UK societal norm for tipping in a restaurant, so either pay that or stick to McDonalds or the chip shop.

So why do you exclude McD's and Chip Shops from tipping?

How do you decide which establishments warrant a tip? This is the problem with tipping - its a minefield of social expectation and knowledge.


As an alternative viewpoint, as a student I worked for a campsite during the holidays. I used to help some of the more elderly campers with towing their vans onto the site and putting up awnings and whatnot. Was often offered a tip but never accepted them, as my opinion was that I was already being paid by the campsite owner to provide a service. It just felt morally wrong to charge people extra for what they had already paid for.

How is it a “minefield”? Surely you can tell the difference between a waiter and somebody just standing behind a counter who takes your money and hands over a bag of food? If you struggle with that you could simply follow what other people do by asking yourself have I ever seen anyone tip in McDonalds or the chip shop and have I ever seen anyone tip in a restaurant where I was waited on?

Your campsite argument makes no sense either - if you’re offered a tip then that isn’t “charging people extra”.

You’re making it much harder than it really is!

[Sheepshanks]

boyse7en said:

As an alternative viewpoint, as a student I worked for a campsite during the holidays. I used to help some of the more elderly campers with towing their vans onto the site and putting up awnings and whatnot. Was often offered a tip but never accepted them, as my opinion was that I was already being paid by the campsite owner to provide a service. It just felt morally wrong to charge people extra for what they had already paid for.

As others have said, that's not charging people extra. Older folks can get offended if you refuse their tip - they see it as you saying their money isn't good enough.

[tannhauser]

Roman Rhodes said:

boyse7en said:

Olivera said:

~10% tip is the UK societal norm for tipping in a restaurant, so either pay that or stick to McDonalds or the chip shop.

So why do you exclude McD's and Chip Shops from tipping?

How do you decide which establishments warrant a tip? This is the problem with tipping - its a minefield of social expectation and knowledge.


As an alternative viewpoint, as a student I worked for a campsite during the holidays. I used to help some of the more elderly campers with towing their vans onto the site and putting up awnings and whatnot. Was often offered a tip but never accepted them, as my opinion was that I was already being paid by the campsite owner to provide a service. It just felt morally wrong to charge people extra for what they had already paid for.

How is it a “minefield”? Surely you can tell the difference between a waiter and somebody just standing behind a counter who takes your money and hands over a bag of food? If you struggle with that you could simply follow what other people do by asking yourself have I ever seen anyone tip in McDonalds or the chip shop and have I ever seen anyone tip in a restaurant where I was waited on?

Your campsite argument makes no sense either - if you’re offered a tip then that isn’t “charging people extra”.

You’re making it much harder than it really is!

How is taking an order, bringing food to a table then clearing it away, so worthy of a tip?!

[Anarchist]

Cotty said:

ps you don't need to sign off you posts, as your name is displayed next to it.

Cheers,

Anarchist.

[ambuletz]

i don't get why a waiter or service charge should be bigger just because someone bought more expensive food

say 2 people eat a main, drinks and dessert.

the cheaper meal will obviously be to have water, a vegetarian meall + dessert

so why pay more tip if someone asks for a bottle of wine, a steak, and a dessert?

the waiter is going to do the same trip on both occasions. there is no greater skillset involved.

[matrignano]

(In the UK) I generally just pay whatever bill I'm given, which in London pretty much always already includes a 12.5% or 13.5% tip.

One scenario that I'm conflicted about however, is cocktail bars.
If I'm seated and get table service, I don't mind paying the tip as I would in a restaurant.
But if I'm sitting at the counter, for some reason I always get a bit annoyed with the tip being automatically added to the bill? Particularly if I'm just having wine, which requires no effort from the bar staff to "prepare"/

It happened just on Sunday when I ordered an expensive bottle of wine and paid £20+ in tip.
On the way home I thought, why the fk did I just pay £20 for someone to open and pour a bottle of wine for me???

[DickyC]

tannhauser said:

CustardOnChips said:

DickyC said:

Tipping started in Britain and was well established by the 17th Century.

Now it's part of the occasion. It's theatre. If a place expects you to tip and you don't want to, go somewhere else; McDonald's or somewhere.

Sake.

Tipping is theatre? WTF is that supposed to mean?

Do you make a big fuss and grand gesture of leaving a few quid for the poor urchin that had the honour of serving a gentleman of such distinction as yourself?

My thoughts exactly, but much more eloquently put!

Dinner in a restaurant is theatre. It's entertainment. So help me, we have this every time.

You are such an embarrassment, the pair of you. I am never taking you out to dinner again.

[21TonyK]

I have no issue with tipping but I think the straight % is a very crude estimate of what a server should receive.

I could go out and order a £40 main and a £60 bottle of wine taking 5 minutes of a servers time and leave a £10 tip but a couple ordering mains and deserts with no wine could be a lot more work but tip less.

An accepted % of the food bill multiplied by the number of covers would be a better (albeit completely unrealistic) answer.