waiter unhappy with tip
Discussion
Fastchas said:
I'm sure I heard recently where a district (it may have been NY but may be mistaken) was looking to move entirely away with tipping and it's problems (how much to tip etc).
It would make life much easier I think.
easier for whom?..I do it almost daily,. Most places in NA now have credit card machines that show the tip at various percentages and you just hit the button. I like the systemIt would make life much easier I think.
21TonyK said:
Any comment on how the proposed $15 Fed. minimum wage in the US might potentially change peoples ideas on tipping in the US?
(I only read about this briefly elsewhere so may or may not be correct!)
I’d like to think so but the tipping mentality is deeply entrenched in the USA.(I only read about this briefly elsewhere so may or may not be correct!)
21TonyK said:
Any comment on how the proposed $15 Fed. minimum wage in the US might potentially change peoples ideas on tipping in the US?
(I only read about this briefly elsewhere so may or may not be correct!)
If you make $15 per hour, that is a pretty pitiful amount of money to try to live on. For a full-time week, that's $562, BEFORE deductions. Try getting by on that in NYC!(I only read about this briefly elsewhere so may or may not be correct!)
I think it is great that in the states ordinary people who make a big effort can make a viable wage by being an excellent server. I have become a bit Americanized having been there much more than in the UK for 2 decades now, but I tip well and I also get tipped well myself in my job as a solo musician. My feeling is that everyone tries a bit harder, and has a bit of a better night when tips are involved.
paulguitar said:
21TonyK said:
Any comment on how the proposed $15 Fed. minimum wage in the US might potentially change peoples ideas on tipping in the US?
(I only read about this briefly elsewhere so may or may not be correct!)
If you make $15 per hour, that is a pretty pitiful amount of money to try to live on. For a full-time week, that's $562, BEFORE deductions. Try getting by on that in NYC!(I only read about this briefly elsewhere so may or may not be correct!)
I think it is great that in the states ordinary people who make a big effort can make a viable wage by being an excellent server. I have become a bit Americanized having been there much more than in the UK for 2 decades now, but I tip well and I also get tipped well myself in my job as a solo musician. My feeling is that everyone tries a bit harder, and has a bit of a better night when tips are involved.
Just interested to hear what those who keep banging on about supplementing wages etc think
6-7 years back I paid £9 an hour for waiters/waitresses as they only worked 20-28 hours a week but in that time (if good) they would make another couple of hundred in tips which were tax free.
paulguitar said:
If you make $15 per hour, that is a pretty pitiful amount of money to try to live on. For a full-time week, that's $562, BEFORE deductions. Try getting by on that in NYC!
I think it is great that in the states ordinary people who make a big effort can make a viable wage by being an excellent server. I have become a bit Americanized having been there much more than in the UK for 2 decades now, but I tip well and I also get tipped well myself in my job as a solo musician. My feeling is that everyone tries a bit harder, and has a bit of a better night when tips are involved.
There's probably some impact because people always like a Brit who can speak their language, but I invariably get better service in France, Spain & Italy than I ever have in the States. I think it is great that in the states ordinary people who make a big effort can make a viable wage by being an excellent server. I have become a bit Americanized having been there much more than in the UK for 2 decades now, but I tip well and I also get tipped well myself in my job as a solo musician. My feeling is that everyone tries a bit harder, and has a bit of a better night when tips are involved.
Sure, the Americans are good at the nice smile, energy and polished script, but in my experience, they tend to go off the rails somewhat if you ask them questions about the food (provenance of the meat, how a dish is prepared, etc, fairly basic stuff), and also frequently seem to want to rush you through so that they can get someone else on your table for another tip.
No European waiter has ever felt the need to introduce themselves to me by name, nor to state the bleeding obvious by telling me that they'll be my waiter for the night. They've also never feigned an interest in where I'm from, where I'm staying or what I've done that day, and long may it remain the case!
Also, whilst I've occasionally had a European restaurant tell me they can only let me have a table if I'm away at a certain time because they've got a reservation later, I've never had one bring out main courses before we'd finished the starters!
Perhaps we should make a distinction between going to a restaurant and going somewhere to eat. Restaurants equal an old school evening out; dress up, expect good food and good service from knowledgeable attentive staff, using the right cutlery, making toasts, clinking glasses and a tip at the end. (It's the thing I mentioned some days ago about it being entertainment - restaurant meals are theatre.) Going somewhere to eat is just that; it's fuel. No song and dance, no razzmatazz, no tip required.
Any takers?
ETA "
ing glasses" is censored. I had to invent clinking glasses.
Any takers?
ETA "
ing glasses" is censored. I had to invent clinking glasses.DickyC said:
Perhaps we should make a distinction between going to a restaurant and going somewhere to eat. Restaurants equal an old school evening out; dress up, expect good food and good service from knowledgeable attentive staff, using the right cutlery, making toasts, clinking glasses and a tip at the end. (It's the thing I mentioned some days ago about it being entertainment - restaurant meals are theatre.) Going somewhere to eat is just that; it's fuel. No song and dance, no razzmatazz, no tip required.
Any takers?
ETA "ing glasses" is censored. I had to invent clinking glasses.
No, you haven’t invented “clinking” - that is the correct word. Who the fAny takers?
ETA "
ing glasses" is censored. I had to invent clinking glasses.k says “ing”?As an aside, I don’t find I need to adopt the persona of Bertie Wooster to go to a restaurant or give a tip. Can’t say I know anyone else who does either, thank God!
Kermit power said:
No European waiter has ever felt the need to introduce themselves to me by name, nor to state the bleeding obvious by telling me that they'll be my waiter for the night. They've also never feigned an interest in where I'm from, where I'm staying or what I've done that day, and long may it remain the case!
This is how I feel about it. I neither know nor care what your name is, or any single thing about you. I am sure you feel the same about me.The wife of a friend of mine seems to have a genuine interest in every single person she meets. We went to the AGM of a FTSE 100 company once, there was a girl saying stuff like "the annual reports are on the table on the left and there are drinks on the table on the right". My friend's wife found out that she was from x town, went to college in y town, is now hoping to do XYZ at a university in j town. Who gives a monkeys! Who cares? I am not interested in the slightest!!
Ooh! I feel better now!
The Mad Monk said:
Kermit power said:
No European waiter has ever felt the need to introduce themselves to me by name, nor to state the bleeding obvious by telling me that they'll be my waiter for the night. They've also never feigned an interest in where I'm from, where I'm staying or what I've done that day, and long may it remain the case!
This is how I feel about it. I neither know nor care what your name is, or any single thing about you. I am sure you feel the same about me.The wife of a friend of mine seems to have a genuine interest in every single person she meets. We went to the AGM of a FTSE 100 company once, there was a girl saying stuff like "the annual reports are on the table on the left and there are drinks on the table on the right". My friend's wife found out that she was from x town, went to college in y town, is now hoping to do XYZ at a university in j town. Who gives a monkeys! Who cares? I am not interested in the slightest!!
Ooh! I feel better now!
I do, however, want to eat somewhere where people can answer questions about the food professionally, which is generally the case in mid-range European restaurants (and even a lot of the cheaper ones) but rarely, in my experience, in the States.
Kermit power said:
The Mad Monk said:
Kermit power said:
No European waiter has ever felt the need to introduce themselves to me by name, nor to state the bleeding obvious by telling me that they'll be my waiter for the night. They've also never feigned an interest in where I'm from, where I'm staying or what I've done that day, and long may it remain the case!
This is how I feel about it. I neither know nor care what your name is, or any single thing about you. I am sure you feel the same about me.The wife of a friend of mine seems to have a genuine interest in every single person she meets. We went to the AGM of a FTSE 100 company once, there was a girl saying stuff like "the annual reports are on the table on the left and there are drinks on the table on the right". My friend's wife found out that she was from x town, went to college in y town, is now hoping to do XYZ at a university in j town. Who gives a monkeys! Who cares? I am not interested in the slightest!!
Ooh! I feel better now!
I do, however, want to eat somewhere where people can answer questions about the food professionally, which is generally the case in mid-range European restaurants (and even a lot of the cheaper ones) but rarely, in my experience, in the States.
Roman Rhodes said:
You know people tip (not at US levels) in France, Italy and Spain too and that it is irrelevant whether or how you like interacting with people?
Rarely if ever. I eat out many times a year with colleagues and clients in all three countries, and they might occasionally leave the change to the nearest Euro in a café, for example, to avoid having the shrapnel in their pockets, but tipping in restaurants just doesn't happen. You'll be presented with a credit card machine with no facility to add a tip, and nobody ever takes out cash to add one.How you like interacting with people is also not irrelevant, especially when the cheesy script is being used to disguise a lack of actual knowledge about the food. Grinning, telling me your name (which I could read from your name badge if I wanted to), telling me you're going to be my waiter for the evening (just in case I'm mentally retarded and hadn't figured it out from the fact that you're standing beside my table with a pad and pen ready to take my order) and then not being able to recommend a wine to go with a certain dish doesn't constitute good service.
Kermit power said:
Roman Rhodes said:
You know people tip (not at US levels) in France, Italy and Spain too and that it is irrelevant whether or how you like interacting with people?
Rarely if ever. I eat out many times a year with colleagues and clients in all three countries, and they might occasionally leave the change to the nearest Euro in a café, for example, to avoid having the shrapnel in their pockets, but tipping in restaurants just doesn't happen. You'll be presented with a credit card machine with no facility to add a tip, and nobody ever takes out cash to add one.How you like interacting with people is also not irrelevant, especially when the cheesy script is being used to disguise a lack of actual knowledge about the food. Grinning, telling me your name (which I could read from your name badge if I wanted to), telling me you're going to be my waiter for the evening (just in case I'm mentally retarded and hadn't figured it out from the fact that you're standing beside my table with a pad and pen ready to take my order) and then not being able to recommend a wine to go with a certain dish doesn't constitute good service.
You should avoid going to the States if possible as you so clearly dislike the people. Life is too short to be miserable about things you can't change!
As already said: depressing.
Kermit power said:
Roman Rhodes said:
You know people tip (not at US levels) in France, Italy and Spain too and that it is irrelevant whether or how you like interacting with people?
Rarely if ever. I eat out many times a year with colleagues and clients in all three countries, and they might occasionally leave the change to the nearest Euro in a café, for example, to avoid having the shrapnel in their pockets, but tipping in restaurants just doesn't happen. You'll be presented with a credit card machine with no facility to add a tip, and nobody ever takes out cash to add one.Thinking about it the rest of the table might have chipped in for the tip as I paid for the meal. They could have left the tip on the table while I paid the bill at the bar.
Edited by Cotty on Wednesday 28th August 11:16
Roman Rhodes said:
Kermit power said:
Roman Rhodes said:
You know people tip (not at US levels) in France, Italy and Spain too and that it is irrelevant whether or how you like interacting with people?
Rarely if ever. I eat out many times a year with colleagues and clients in all three countries, and they might occasionally leave the change to the nearest Euro in a café, for example, to avoid having the shrapnel in their pockets, but tipping in restaurants just doesn't happen. You'll be presented with a credit card machine with no facility to add a tip, and nobody ever takes out cash to add one.How you like interacting with people is also not irrelevant, especially when the cheesy script is being used to disguise a lack of actual knowledge about the food. Grinning, telling me your name (which I could read from your name badge if I wanted to), telling me you're going to be my waiter for the evening (just in case I'm mentally retarded and hadn't figured it out from the fact that you're standing beside my table with a pad and pen ready to take my order) and then not being able to recommend a wine to go with a certain dish doesn't constitute good service.
You should avoid going to the States if possible as you so clearly dislike the people. Life is too short to be miserable about things you can't change!
As already said: depressing.
Not interacting, and not wanting to, with 'service' personnel, even at a very basic level, says far more about a person than anything posted on this thread. And to actually say 'I dont care' about them is shocking.
Roman Rhodes said:
Your "rarely if ever" is simply wrong not only for the fact that the service charge is often built in to the bill (and not necessarily as obvious as the % shown at the bottom of a UK bill - e.g. pane e coperto in Italy).
You're contradicting yourself in one sentence, and you're just plain wrong, I'm afraid. Nobody is suggesting that waiters should serve you for free, so of course the service charge is included in the bill! In fact, it has to be included by law in France, and every restaurant bill you get will say that service is included on the bill. There is no expectation that you will tip on top of this for a meal there for this reason.
With regards to pane & coperto, it's been quite a long while since I was charged for that in Italy. I certainly wasn't on any of 6 restaurant meals I had in Milan in July, and I would've noticed, as I'm trying to lose a bit of weight, so specifically refused any bread.
Spain? There is simply no expectation that you'll tip, and nobody does outside tourist traps with lots of Americans in them.
There are essentially three ways in which countries pay waiters...
1. The US. Restaurants are allowed to pay staff at significantly below minimum wage because of the expectation of tipping. Yes, you're right, I find the whole restaurant experience there excrutiatingly awful, but I still tip because I know they're not on wages that allow them to live without the tip.
2. Spain, France & Italy and others like them where the waiters are paid fairly and don't expect a tip on top.
3. The UK, where oddly we have fairly paid waiters (certainly compared to any job requiring a comparable skillset and qualifications) yet people still follow an outdated protocol and tip more on top.
Roman Rhodes said:
Perhaps your experience is coloured by the fact that you are on business and no-one has the facility to claim the tip back (and all are equally reluctant to fund the tip from their own pockets - i.e. tight).
I've never worked for a place where I couldn't claim the tip back, and if I ever have to go to the States, of course I claim the tip back. I don't claim the tip back in France, Spain or Italy, because people don't tip in those countries.
Roman Rhodes said:
There is however plenty of guidance as to tipping customs and etiquette online - all of which says you are incorrect regarding France, Italy and Spain.
No there really isn't. There's the occasional thing suggesting that you might leave a few coins, but the overwhelming majority point out that service is already included, and that you're not expected to tip. When I lived in France & Spain, custom was simply to leave the shrapnel - anything less than a franc or 100ptas - but nowadays people just don't, and anything suggesting you do is completely out of date.The custom has changed because people almost invariably pay by card, these days, just as they do here. I have never ever been presented with a card machine in France, Spain or Italy which provides the option to add a tip, and since taxis have generally started accepting cards, certainly in Milan & Madrid, I just don't have any change. On my last few trips, I haven't even bothered taking any actual Euros, as I wouldn't have any need for them.
The only people I've ever seen digging around for cash for a tip in a French, Spanish or Italian restaurant have been British or American colleagues, and invariably our local colleagues will just tell them not to worry about it, as it's not customary to tip waiters. You're welcome to find as many online etiquette experts as you like, but it won't change the actual facts of being there.
nonsequitur said:
Not interacting, and not wanting to, with 'service' personnel, even at a very basic level, says far more about a person than anything posted on this thread. And to actually say 'I dont care' about them is shocking.
Why?If I'm having a meal with people, then those are the people I want to interact with. I want the waiter to come over, take my order and answer any questions we may have about the food. Why on earth would I want to know more than that? What value is there to knowing the name of a waiter I'm probably never going to meet again, much less develop any sort of relationship with?
As for not caring about them, what's shocking about that? Do you think that they care about you? When was the last time a waiter stopped you before you gave them a tip to check that you could afford to do so?
Kermit power said:
nonsequitur said:
Not interacting, and not wanting to, with 'service' personnel, even at a very basic level, says far more about a person than anything posted on this thread. And to actually say 'I dont care' about them is shocking.
Why?If I'm having a meal with people, then those are the people I want to interact with. I want the waiter to come over, take my order and answer any questions we may have about the food. Why on earth would I want to know more than that? What value is there to knowing the name of a waiter I'm probably never going to meet again, much less develop any sort of relationship with?
As for not caring about them, what's shocking about that? Do you think that they care about you? When was the last time a waiter stopped you before you gave them a tip to check that you could afford to do so?
If I have to explain, then it's much worse than I originally posted.
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