"Good" and "Bad" music
Discussion
Disregarding the taste issue, I have my own theories:
The more complex and layered the music is, the more thought was put into it, which to my ears / mind classified it as 'good'. Therefore classical music is good. Radiohead music is good. Twilight Sad music is good. Pink floyd music is generally "good" etc etc
The more formulaic the music is, the less effort has to be put into writing it, which to my mind means 'bad'. Blues music, which I like, is not good music. 12 bars, recurring lyrics, very set structure. Enjoyable music, if you like the depression, but still 'bad'. Most pop music is the same - very set formula, therefore very very bland and while it may be enjoyable to some, it's still 'bad' music. Heavy metal music is also very conservative in its style and formula and while I prefer to listen to it over say girls aloud, it's still 'bad' music. And don't even get me started on dance / trance / R+B / D+B rubbish, which is about as formulaic and therefore as bad as it gets. Even if some find it enjoyable.
The broadsheets are 'good' newspapers. But even the most intelligent of my work colleagues makes a beeline for the Sun at coffee time.
The more complex and layered the music is, the more thought was put into it, which to my ears / mind classified it as 'good'. Therefore classical music is good. Radiohead music is good. Twilight Sad music is good. Pink floyd music is generally "good" etc etc
The more formulaic the music is, the less effort has to be put into writing it, which to my mind means 'bad'. Blues music, which I like, is not good music. 12 bars, recurring lyrics, very set structure. Enjoyable music, if you like the depression, but still 'bad'. Most pop music is the same - very set formula, therefore very very bland and while it may be enjoyable to some, it's still 'bad' music. Heavy metal music is also very conservative in its style and formula and while I prefer to listen to it over say girls aloud, it's still 'bad' music. And don't even get me started on dance / trance / R+B / D+B rubbish, which is about as formulaic and therefore as bad as it gets. Even if some find it enjoyable.
The broadsheets are 'good' newspapers. But even the most intelligent of my work colleagues makes a beeline for the Sun at coffee time.
You should be able to appreciate 'good' music, even if it's not to your taste. Just because you subjectively don't like something, it doesn't mean it isn't objectively good.
I went through a relatively short period of listening to Dr. Dre, even though it's never been a genre I've been interested in from a lifestyle point of view, because he was/is just awesome at what he does.
I went through a relatively short period of listening to Dr. Dre, even though it's never been a genre I've been interested in from a lifestyle point of view, because he was/is just awesome at what he does.
Nothing is "good" or "bad" - only thinking makes it so.
It is a matter of taste, isn't it.
I would expect most people would classify music that has been written with a purely commercial motive as being "bad" - but even then cheesy pop balads have their place - wherther it be Jimmy Young, Mud, The Bay City Rollers, Kajagoogoo or Girls Aloud.
Todays rubbish pop becomes tomorrows nostalgia.
It is a matter of taste, isn't it.
I would expect most people would classify music that has been written with a purely commercial motive as being "bad" - but even then cheesy pop balads have their place - wherther it be Jimmy Young, Mud, The Bay City Rollers, Kajagoogoo or Girls Aloud.
Todays rubbish pop becomes tomorrows nostalgia.
HereBeMonsters said:
TVR Sagaris said:
(Thread seemed to suit The Lounge more than the music forum, as it isn't about a type of music.)
I was having this discussion with a friend of mine, who was being extraordinarily difficult because he'd started off by insulting a track I liked.
It seems to me that most sensible people can agree on what is "good" music and what is "bad music". Take Girls Aloud; I expect 99% of the people on this forum will agree with me when I say their music is "bad". Some people might like their music, but they would still agree it's bad - there's very little talent, it's very generic and it's manufactured in a way music never should be. Compare that to Bonobo; I would think most people would agree his music is "good", even if they don't like it. He's clearly got a lot of talent and carefully creates his tracks.
I admit to liking plenty of "bad" music: for some reason I like a particular type of 1990s' dance music that is obviously twaddle. It's like a guilty secret. But I would never try and claim that music is any good.
Do you agree? And can we come up with some way of determining which is which, other than listening to all the tracks in the world?
Girls Aloud is actually very good of its kind. Well made, well produced pop. Just because it's a genre you don't like, doesn't mean it's "bad" music, except to you. Listen to one of their CDs on a decent stereo and you'll be surprised.I was having this discussion with a friend of mine, who was being extraordinarily difficult because he'd started off by insulting a track I liked.
It seems to me that most sensible people can agree on what is "good" music and what is "bad music". Take Girls Aloud; I expect 99% of the people on this forum will agree with me when I say their music is "bad". Some people might like their music, but they would still agree it's bad - there's very little talent, it's very generic and it's manufactured in a way music never should be. Compare that to Bonobo; I would think most people would agree his music is "good", even if they don't like it. He's clearly got a lot of talent and carefully creates his tracks.
I admit to liking plenty of "bad" music: for some reason I like a particular type of 1990s' dance music that is obviously twaddle. It's like a guilty secret. But I would never try and claim that music is any good.
Do you agree? And can we come up with some way of determining which is which, other than listening to all the tracks in the world?
What the f
k is Bonobo?
Egg Chaser said:
No. Nothing defines good or bad music.
Exactly. (except that 'enter the ninja' record - that is undoubtedly 'bad' music)
What's good and bad is subjective which makes this a difficult argument.
Personally, I can't stand most of the Beatles' music, nor do I like anything by John Lennon and I utterly detest "Imagine" by John Lennon - I understand the appeal and the impact of them both though.
I do, however, like Green Day - which I'm sure there are people will say that they're "just noise".
ETA - Where does that "Modern freeform Jazz" noise genre fit in to this - I've heard it and that, to me, is utter rubbish...
Personally, I can't stand most of the Beatles' music, nor do I like anything by John Lennon and I utterly detest "Imagine" by John Lennon - I understand the appeal and the impact of them both though.
I do, however, like Green Day - which I'm sure there are people will say that they're "just noise".
ETA - Where does that "Modern freeform Jazz" noise genre fit in to this - I've heard it and that, to me, is utter rubbish...
Edited by james_tigerwoods on Wednesday 20th October 10:21
"Good" and "Bad" is very subjective ~ Beauty is in the eye of the beholder an' all that. I'm not a fan of rap but I'm confident that 50 Cent, Dr Dre and Eminem are at the "Good" end and Blazin Squad are at the other. Not a Girls Aloud or Sugababes fan either but Call the Shots and Freak Like Me were great pop singles IMHO. Good and bad exponents of every genre but there's no good and bad music.
Edited by CRACKIE on Wednesday 20th October 12:22
monthefish said:
ShadownINja said:
monthefish said:
Exactly.
(except that 'enter the ninja' record - that is undoubtedly 'bad' music)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc3f4xU_FfQ(except that 'enter the ninja' record - that is undoubtedly 'bad' music)
?
(I hope you aren't considering using it as your theme tune....)
I co-wrote it. That girl's my sister. This is like the coolest song in my whole life.
DangerousMike said:
I think the main reason girls aloud etc. is popular is because its what people are told is popular on the radio in the day time. People would find more music they liked if they searched it out and found something that connected with them. The reality, I think, is that most people just aren't that interested in music and therefore listen to what they are fed. (if you see what i mean).
Pretty much the reality..Most people(ie capital radio/radio listening general public) don't actually understand music, so they will like what they're fed, hence the success of acts appearing on X factor etc..
However, the songs that many of these 'Pop' acts release are written and produced by some very talented people. Girls Aloud being mentioned as a more palatable version of a modern girl pop act as they obviously have a very good people writing the tunes.
As I just remembered it, not sure if anybody else remembers that Saturdays song from last summer "Forever is Over", as first time I heard it I thought what I brilliantly crafted song, looked up who wrote it and found it was written by James Bourne from Busted, originally for Kelly Clarkson, and also Pink was chasing them for it too, so it wasn't only me who thought it was a great tune. Would have been interesting to hear the US ladies versions of it.
I love music, I couldn't live without it. I like Rock (especially late 60s - early 70s), Blues, Reggae (especially Nester), Hip-Hop, some classical music, Folk, Drum n Bass, Bigbeat, Trip-Hop................... the list goes on.
So how come I can't stand 99% of the music that's all over TV and radio nowadays?
That's because most of it is st!
Or maybe I'm just getting old?
So how come I can't stand 99% of the music that's all over TV and radio nowadays?
That's because most of it is s
t!Or maybe I'm just getting old?
A lot of people seem to get good music and music they like mixed up. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it bad in most cases. There are some people who are talentless fakes that manage to get popular but that's not because of good music, Pete Docherety I'm looking at you!
I really don't like Justin Beiber however his music is good and very well produced, his record sales show this. And as anoying it is hearing him, him getting signed has meant that the company can sign better bands.
I really don't like Justin Beiber however his music is good and very well produced, his record sales show this. And as anoying it is hearing him, him getting signed has meant that the company can sign better bands.
I beg to differ. Justin Bieber's music is appallingly produced, rushed out using faddy production techniques like excessive and obvious autotune, and has very little depth to it as it is just a means to sell merchandise rather than the actual product. I agree that a lot of pop is very well put together though, and well written. The Girls Aloud example is true, as their producers (who I believe have done all of their albums) are very talented guys. Although I always thought that middle aged men writing slutty lyrics for girl bands was a bit sinister. 
10 Pence Short said:
You should be able to appreciate 'good' music, even if it's not to your taste. Just because you subjectively don't like something, it doesn't mean it isn't objectively good.
I went through a relatively short period of listening to Dr. Dre, even though it's never been a genre I've been interested in from a lifestyle point of view, because he was/is just awesome at what he does.
That's what I was getting at.I went through a relatively short period of listening to Dr. Dre, even though it's never been a genre I've been interested in from a lifestyle point of view, because he was/is just awesome at what he does.
Dr. Dre is a good example. I don't like any of the songs I've listened to of his but I can appreciate it as music.
I picked Bonobo as one of my examples because I knew loads of people would hate his stuff. But I also knew that most people would be able to see there was something worthwhile in there.
HereBeMonsters said:
james_tigerwoods said:
I do, however, like Green Day - which I'm sure there are people will say that they're "just noise".
Do you like actual Green Day, or the recent "hey guys, we can make a lot more money if we pretend we're emo" ste?...and I say that as Green Day's number 1 fan.
I also like Tracy Chapman - just to widen the spectrum.
A subject I love to hate, or hate to love.
Of course for the most part it's down to opinion. I have quite broad taste, but would probably say I'd prefer to listen to Girls Aloud than most of the other artists mentioned in this thread. I am pretty sure Bonobo was recommended to me on Amazon, I tried a bit and didnt enjoy it but maybe I should go back.
I think my opinion is a mixture of DavePoth's and EggChaser's.
Of course for the most part it's down to opinion. I have quite broad taste, but would probably say I'd prefer to listen to Girls Aloud than most of the other artists mentioned in this thread. I am pretty sure Bonobo was recommended to me on Amazon, I tried a bit and didnt enjoy it but maybe I should go back.
I think my opinion is a mixture of DavePoth's and EggChaser's.
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