"Good" and "Bad" music
Discussion
True!10 Pence Short said:
You should be able to appreciate 'good' music, even if it's not to your taste. Just because you subjectively don't like something, it doesn't mean it isn't objectively good.
Indeed this.For me (myself), the best example I can think of is the guitarist Albert Lee. Now, really and truthfully, I hate Country & Western music on a cellular level, but I am never less than astounded with his work.
A slight problem with that is there'll be a difference of opinion to what defines 'good', whether you personally like it or not. When it comes to technicality then that's perhaps less subjective, but to some a 'catchy' song/riff/vocal line would mean it's automatically good 'track' (avoiding the use of 'song').
HereBeMonsters said:
Rouleur said:
Girls Aloud's song Biology is a classic, it's a very high quality pop song. I hate their sort of music as a rule but that tune is the exception.
The video is even better. Not in a leery "aren't they nice to look at?" kind of way, but in terms of direction and coreography. They almost look classy.As we're naming other Girls Aloud songs that are quite good, I bought their Greatest Hits CD (£2!) the other day, and am currently enjoying these in the car:
No Good Advice
The Show
Something Kinda Oooh (only works in the car, imo - good driving song)
Love Machine
Can't Speak French
It really is great pop music, much better than a lot of the other stuff that somehow seems to get in the charts. A lot of their album stuff is filler though.
chevy-stu said:
As I just remembered it, not sure if anybody else remembers that Saturdays song from last summer "Forever is Over", as first time I heard it I thought what I brilliantly crafted song, looked up who wrote it and found it was written by James Bourne from Busted, originally for Kelly Clarkson, and also Pink was chasing them for it too, so it wasn't only me who thought it was a great tune. Would have been interesting to hear the US ladies versions of it.
Didn't realise this, I actually enjoy The Saturdays stuff and they have some really catchy tunes on their albums. Easy to listen to when out running.Z06George said:
There are some people who are talentless fakes that manage to get popular but that's not because of good music, Pete Docherety I'm looking at you!
I asume you mean Pete Doherty? You see, I think he's brilliant. There's something very special about his music. It's melodic yet raw, his recordings sounding as though they just happened to be captured whilst a moment of genious was taking place.james_tigerwoods said:
I do, however, like Green Day - which I'm sure there are people will say that they're "just noise".
If there are people who would say that Green Day is just noise, they'd s
t angry builders at some of the more industrial stuff I've got (Godflesh, Jesu, etc)...I think good music is music that engenders an emotional response in the listener.
For example, this plugs into my brain and farts around with something or other, but would be considered as "just noise" by most:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fegt-bD3q_k
Whereas this, widely considered to be a highly emotional piece (and it's very, very well performed), leaves me stone cold:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUiTQvT0W_0&ob=...
I think both of these qualify as good music. I've seen the latter piece reduce people to genuine tears.
Stevie Mojo said:
Z06George said:
There are some people who are talentless fakes that manage to get popular but that's not because of good music, Pete Docherety I'm looking at you!
I asume you mean Pete Doherty? You see, I think he's brilliant. There's something very special about his music. It's melodic yet raw, his recordings sounding as though they just happened to be captured whilst a moment of genious was taking place.On the original question though, no music is good or bad. There's music you like and music you don't, and this varies from person to person. I've no time for people who declare that something is s
t because they don't like.That new song (heartbeat i think) by Enrique Englasias (sp?) and Nichol Sherzinger is the definition of bad music. It took 2 seconds to make, conveys no emotion, and is generally drab and appaling.
Now Duran Duran. The image may of been bad, and the actual meaning of the songs can be low effort, but listen to the musical composition behind those songs. Those bass lines, and drum beats, made by someone with talent. It's the same with heavy metal. There's meaning, although it can be hard to understand and it may be shallow, but there is a lot of talent in the musicians behind that sort of music.
And pop music is exactly the same. Come on, how many people think that girls alound and the saturdays write their songs, that getting 5 women to sing perfectly in harmony is plausible? Of course they use a bit of auto tune here and there, but the main thing is, there is talent in the people who make those songs.
I bet not many musicians could write a song, that could jump straight to the top 10. It's fecking hard.
Now Duran Duran. The image may of been bad, and the actual meaning of the songs can be low effort, but listen to the musical composition behind those songs. Those bass lines, and drum beats, made by someone with talent. It's the same with heavy metal. There's meaning, although it can be hard to understand and it may be shallow, but there is a lot of talent in the musicians behind that sort of music.
And pop music is exactly the same. Come on, how many people think that girls alound and the saturdays write their songs, that getting 5 women to sing perfectly in harmony is plausible? Of course they use a bit of auto tune here and there, but the main thing is, there is talent in the people who make those songs.
I bet not many musicians could write a song, that could jump straight to the top 10. It's fecking hard.
Sadly, I like good music.
...and some people think Ringo Star is a good drummer.
There is no hope for any of us I'm afraid.
ETA... I've just spent a week in one of the best recording studios in Europe, working with probably the best engineer I've known in 30 years in the biz, recording my 40th album... And STILL my wife hates the fact that I profess only to like 'good' music.
As I say - no hope.
...and some people think Ringo Star is a good drummer.
There is no hope for any of us I'm afraid.
ETA... I've just spent a week in one of the best recording studios in Europe, working with probably the best engineer I've known in 30 years in the biz, recording my 40th album... And STILL my wife hates the fact that I profess only to like 'good' music.
As I say - no hope.
Edited by GetCarter on Saturday 23 October 18:14
Another personal example of a tune I enjoy, within a genre I dislike is "No Diggity":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KL9mRus19o&ob=...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KL9mRus19o&ob=...
alfa pint said:
Disregarding the taste issue, I have my own theories:
The more complex and layered the music is, the more thought was put into it, which to my ears / mind classified it as 'good'. Therefore classical music is good. Radiohead music is good. Twilight Sad music is good. Pink floyd music is generally "good" etc etc
The more formulaic the music is, the less effort has to be put into writing it, which to my mind means 'bad'. Blues music, which I like, is not good music. 12 bars, recurring lyrics, very set structure. Enjoyable music, if you like the depression, but still 'bad'. Most pop music is the same - very set formula, therefore very very bland and while it may be enjoyable to some, it's still 'bad' music. Heavy metal music is also very conservative in its style and formula and while I prefer to listen to it over say girls aloud, it's still 'bad' music. And don't even get me started on dance / trance / R+B / D+B rubbish, which is about as formulaic and therefore as bad as it gets. Even if some find it enjoyable.
The broadsheets are 'good' newspapers. But even the most intelligent of my work colleagues makes a beeline for the Sun at coffee time.
Conversely - the more thought goes into music, quite often the results become virtually unlistenable, just as some of the most complex books become virtually unreadable. To me, that is missing the point of creating something - if the communication between writer and recipient is lost, then it's game over; there's no point. Some of Stockhausen's work is very complex to play - however the end result is not exactly something you can sit down and relax to. John Coltrane was a master of progressive harmony within the improvised Jazz genre; he knew exactly what was going on, however, try sitting through 'Om' and tell me that it's his greatest work. John Lee Hooker could just sit on one chord and make it groove like no-one else. John Coltrane could play the arse off a Jazz standard/ballad, bringing the same quality to the listener as a 'simple' blues track. The best music IMO always tries (successfully) to connect with different areas of human feeling.The more complex and layered the music is, the more thought was put into it, which to my ears / mind classified it as 'good'. Therefore classical music is good. Radiohead music is good. Twilight Sad music is good. Pink floyd music is generally "good" etc etc
The more formulaic the music is, the less effort has to be put into writing it, which to my mind means 'bad'. Blues music, which I like, is not good music. 12 bars, recurring lyrics, very set structure. Enjoyable music, if you like the depression, but still 'bad'. Most pop music is the same - very set formula, therefore very very bland and while it may be enjoyable to some, it's still 'bad' music. Heavy metal music is also very conservative in its style and formula and while I prefer to listen to it over say girls aloud, it's still 'bad' music. And don't even get me started on dance / trance / R+B / D+B rubbish, which is about as formulaic and therefore as bad as it gets. Even if some find it enjoyable.
The broadsheets are 'good' newspapers. But even the most intelligent of my work colleagues makes a beeline for the Sun at coffee time.
Edited by Dawg on Sunday 24th October 01:01
kiteless said:
Another personal example of a tune I enjoy, within a genre I dislike is "No Diggity":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KL9mRus19o&ob=...
That tune is recognised my loads of producers/writers etc.. I know as a benchmark of that era of hip hip and R & B..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KL9mRus19o&ob=...
Used a Bill Withers sample, produced and written by Dr Dre & Teddy Riley when they at the top of their game...
maniac0796 said:
That new song (heartbeat i think) by Enrique Englasias (sp?) and Nichol Sherzinger is the definition of bad music. It took 2 seconds to make, conveys no emotion, and is generally drab and appaling.
Now Duran Duran. The image may of been bad, and the actual meaning of the songs can be low effort, but listen to the musical composition behind those songs. Those bass lines, and drum beats, made by someone with talent. It's the same with heavy metal. There's meaning, although it can be hard to understand and it may be shallow, but there is a lot of talent in the musicians behind that sort of music.
And pop music is exactly the same. Come on, how many people think that girls alound and the saturdays write their songs, that getting 5 women to sing perfectly in harmony is plausible? Of course they use a bit of auto tune here and there, but the main thing is, there is talent in the people who make those songs.
I bet not many musicians could write a song, that could jump straight to the top 10. It's fecking hard.
Completely agree with the Duran Duran example - at the time, and mainly because my sister lovved them, I completely dismissed them. It was only when I became more musically educated as I got older that I started to appreciate how good they were. They showed their class later as well with 'Ordinary world' - superb song.Now Duran Duran. The image may of been bad, and the actual meaning of the songs can be low effort, but listen to the musical composition behind those songs. Those bass lines, and drum beats, made by someone with talent. It's the same with heavy metal. There's meaning, although it can be hard to understand and it may be shallow, but there is a lot of talent in the musicians behind that sort of music.
And pop music is exactly the same. Come on, how many people think that girls alound and the saturdays write their songs, that getting 5 women to sing perfectly in harmony is plausible? Of course they use a bit of auto tune here and there, but the main thing is, there is talent in the people who make those songs.
I bet not many musicians could write a song, that could jump straight to the top 10. It's fecking hard.
I've noticed that in my music collection, I tend to be drawn more to musicians and bands who write/perform their own music. I'm not a great fan of 'manufactured' music at all and my collection reflects this.
I've always found that stuff like Girls Aloud/The Saturdays etc does nothing for me whatsoever.
I've always found that stuff like Girls Aloud/The Saturdays etc does nothing for me whatsoever.
I rather like music that tells a story or that has complexity that isn't immediately obvious... I like the way many of Bruce Springsteen's albums tell stories in music not just across the song but across the album. "Tunnel of Love" isn't (in my opinion) his best album, but it is one of the best stories told across 12 songs. Other majors for me would be Genesis, Dire Straits, Don Henley/The Eagles, Amanda Marshall and a lesser known band from the USA called Vertical Horizon. I do like the Killers but accept it as more formulaic rock, inspired not inspiring. While I can't stand Bono's attitude I am in awe of The Edge's guitar playing and complex layering going on.
Bad music? I'm afraid I'm less than keen on most of the mainstream stuff... I think that Katy Perry is gorgeous but I don't think it's the music that gets her sales if you see what I mean.
Bad music? I'm afraid I'm less than keen on most of the mainstream stuff... I think that Katy Perry is gorgeous but I don't think it's the music that gets her sales if you see what I mean.
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