for fans of heavy music

[JaymzDead]

tuscaneer said:

fk me,i didn't know that!!

another vote from me for trivium not being up to much.technically 2 good guitar playes but too retrospective for no good reason to my ears.similar in many ways to bullet for my valentine.too much style over substance for me

Yep I agree with that, plus to my ears, especially on Ascendancy (which someone gave me a copy of many moons ago) there is just way too much plagiarism of some of the masters of the thrash and death genres. There's definately Metallica, Death and Carcss riffs ripped off on that album to name but three, that put me off the big time.

[Goldent147]

The organisation at Sonisphere was a bit bizarre to say the least. I missed TesseracT in order to make sure I was in the tent for Periphery (why put those two right after each other?!?!) and I also stayed after to see Gojira who blew me away - I'd only seen them once before.

I'd heard that Dark Angel had reformed or at least were touring in some capacity again? It was a shame they never really took off (didn't they have a death in the band?) as they released a couple of outstanding early records.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion but I think the reasoning behind those opinions needs to be justified other than just saying that their crap. Periphery/TesseracT/Circles/Animals As Leaders - all of these "Djent" bands have essentially utilised Meshuggah's mainstay guitar riff, doesn't mean that their material is any less quality because of it?

I guess I saw them at the beginning at the Lemon Grove SU Bar in Exeter around September 2005. They emerged after the initial metalcore wave of the early noughties and have since grown into pretty mature writers. They had a duff record in The Crusade (which band hasn't?!) but their recent stuff, Shogun and In Waves, proves that they have a very diversive range.

The fact that they have sold bucketloads of records, have extensively toured large arenas (including supporting Maiden and Metallica) and have been critically very well received both in the States, here and in Asia shows that that they have some support out there. I dare you to continue to listen to them!!!

[tuscaneer]

yeah,i take your point mate.i think meshuggah started something that was initially quite unaccessable but sparked something in people like misha mansoor and then the doors got blown off! kind of like what helmet did 20 years ago and what came after.the thing(for me at least) is that the periphery/animals as leaders thing doesn't sound like a carbon copy of meshuggah,more a progression from it.bfmv and trivium just seem to sellotape a handfull of riffs together that has a more cliched feel to it rather than a meaningful progressive expression

[drumsterphil]

Just add my 2pm re. Trivium and BFMV - can't stand them and don't get them; however,Matt Heafey is pretted talented imo given his work on Roadrunner United (esp. The End) just that Trivium suck.

Just waiting for the new Machine Head album to land - promo track is very promising and I'm looking forward to see if they've finally come up with an album to rival Burn my Eyes (Imperium came close but not quite and The Blackening was not as good as the critics made out).

For something a bit heavier try Fleshgod Apocalypse (get's Devin Townsend's approval so checked it out and it's pretty good!).

[Goldent147]

Ok so they suck - but why?! There must be underpinning reasons as to why you dislike or like certain bands from one another?

Ok so Trivium and Bullet For My Valentine aren't progressive - does that instantly mean that their music isn't well written, complex and attractive to fans? Crikey, look at how BFMV have exploded in America!!!!!

I love bands like Opeth and Airbourne but arguably haven't they have been riding on the coattails of Rush and AC/DC respectively for years?

Anyway, my next gig is Sylosis and Malefice (two of my most favourite bands at the moment) at the end of the month on a big ship in Bristol. CAN'T WAIT!!!
What gigs have other people got planned in the next few weeks?

[tuscaneer]

yeah,i bought roadrunner united specifically due to that track.quite remarkable when you think heafy penned it at what??19 or 20 years old??


i'm a lame tt when it comes to getting out to gigs due primarily to working 65 hours a week and having a 4 year old daughter to keep me occupied.been to some crackers over the years mind.clash of the titans at birmingham nec co headlined by megadeth/slayer.i think that was '91.

saw 'at the drive in' at leeds .fking epic.


tell you what is quite good.remember when zach left rage??

surfaced again a year or so ago with the drummer from at the drive in with "one day as a lion"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mKtt7F0rPU



zach goes back to rage and the 'at the drive in' drummer takes the members of 'at the drive in' who went on to form 'sparta' and hooks up with a rapper called 'hyro da hero'.i think that's how it all went down.anyway,fking great album.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHARq8g9CXs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSCyb78eFiI&fea...


edited to add..........those two drummers look different!!!i'll have to shoot my source!!the fking dhead!whatever the story,the short version is that ex members of at the drive in are doing some pretty cool st!!

Edited by tuscaneer on Friday 2nd September 14:33

Edited by tuscaneer on Friday 2nd September 14:36

[drumsterphil]

Why do Trivium suck, 'um?? I guess, cos I grew up with thrash and death metal I saw a passion in the bands at that time that I don't see in the likes of Trivium etc They're too nicely packaged with ever changing styles to suit whichever way the wind blows imo. I also don't like the current Scre-emo trend of bands like Trivium and all the rubbish that is classed as metal these days (Beyond the horizon etc etc).

I can appreciate the likes of Meshuggah and Periphery more even though again it doesn't really do that much for me. The only recent band that has really got my attention was Gojira, who are quite simply superb.

As for gigs, there's Machine Head coming up (with BtH in support - urgh)otherwise I get my metal kicks gigging with my band

[gbbird]

I'm a old skool thasher/death metaller at heart, but i do give everything a go. I like some of the trivium albums, and bits of the first BFMV album. Both were certainly a cut above the usual rubbish being churned out. Trivium's best effort by far is The Crusade - its a good album. However, Shogun is not as good. As for BFMV, their latest album is absolutely dire, thus suggesting they are indeed one album wonders.

[Swervin_Mervin]

Going to have to check out some of the latest additions in this thread.

I've been overdosing on Protest The Hero. Have had Scurrilous on continuous play virtually, and recently got a copy of Kezia (already had Fortress).

Besides the brilliant C'es La Vie which I posted earlier in this thread, these are some other highlights from Scurrilous:

Termites - great riffing from 2:30 onwards!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOYLMmvjGk4

I also love Moonlight but can't find a copy on Youtube for some reason.

What I have noticed since getting Kezia is just how they've progressed from being quite emo-oriented (which I'm not a fan of) to something that really is quite their own. Biggest change being in Rody Walker's vocals - his range is simply incredible and puts him right up there with the greats imo.

Just to add to the debate I was a slightly "in the closet" fan of some BFMV's Scream Aim Fire album, but they've become far too saccharin for my tastes. I similarly loved Black Tide's Light From Above, but think they must've spent too much time with BFMV as their latest offering is dreadfully chintzy like the BFMV stuff.

Edited by Swervin_Mervin on Friday 2nd September 17:58

[hornet]

Goldent147 said:

Ok so they suck - but why?! There must be underpinning reasons as to why you dislike or like certain bands from one another?

I wouldn't say Trivium suck in the sense they're useless, more that entire style doesn't seem to have anything interesting to grab on to. I think the "pop with guitars" is a fair assessment really. Stuff like them, BFMV and all those other "Something of/for/the Something" bands just seem to have taken the best bits from metal and the best bits from hardcore and ended up with a bland generic cleancut average of the two. Oh look, it's a clean bit that goes shouty, wasn't expecting that. At the risk of a full on Vyvyan "we are not watching the bloody Good Life!" rant, it's all just too nice. Tries to be angry whilst never getting angry enough not to have commercial appeal. All seems rather calculated to my ears.

[hornet]

CommanderJameson said:

What about Dark Angel? Only released two albums in the late 80s, but what albums they were.

Definitely one of the spiritual ancestors of a lot of djent stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgfSz8OECOQ

Four, assuming we're talking about the same band.

Darkness Descends
We Have Arrived
Leave Scars
Time Does Not Heal

Can't look at work, but I'm kind of hoping that clip is either "Burning of Sodom" or "Merciless Death". Ferocious band, even now. Pointy logo too, which is usually a good sign

ETA - Don't think they ever reformed, as I think there were all manner of personal differences at the end. Maybe confused with Forbidden, who have recently(ish) reformed and released a storming album (Omega Wave).

Edited by hornet on Friday 2nd September 20:13

[hornet]

Right, the stroll home from work has helped me figure out why I dislike Trivium and their ilk. When I was 15 I was listening to thrash, the start of the whole second wave of Black Metal, the beginnings of the Swedish death metal explosion and assorted grindcore bands. My Dad hated it. He was outraged by its lack of taste, the distorted guitars, the subject matter and the general air of malice and unpleasantness. Spin forward to now and I'm sat here aged 37 with the complete opposite being the case. Modern metal isn't remotely angry or unpleasant enough. I should hate it in the same way my Dad hated it, yet I'm completely indifferent to it. Everything about it is a compromise or a watering down of something. Clean vocals and twin guitars? Maiden have and always will do that better. Thrashy bits? The original thrash bands did that better, and indeed are still doing it better today. Shouty bits? There's proper hardcore and crustcore for that. What of the growly bits? Nope, death metal had that covered in about 1988. Everything about modern metal seems to be a watered down compromise. There's no soul to any of it, it's all so by the numbers.

[Trackside Junior]

Goldent147 said:

Anyway, my next gig is Sylosis and Malefice (two of my most favourite bands at the moment) at the end of the month on a big ship in Bristol. CAN'T WAIT!!!
What gigs have other people got planned in the next few weeks?

I think my other half and I are going to one of the dates to have see how Sylosis are now live without Jamie.
I hope a lot better than Jamie is. I hate HOAC and I've hated them ever since they started and I was going to the Craufurd when no one had heard of them. They're boring.

[Trackside Junior]

For people that like(d) Gallows, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMnjf2YDDy0
What do we think?
Should Frank have stayed? (YES!!)
I think the best scenario would have been either: Alexisonfire stay together, Gallows get Richie Carter, or even better, Frank stayed, Alexisonfire stayed together and Blackhole reformed

[havoc]

Hornet - a little harsh, but probably not too far off the mark.

Thing is, there ARE lots of decent, original bands out there across metal. But A&R guys have got really conservative and go for bands they KNOW will be popular because they're just like someone who already is...

...and music is arguably now as much in the thrall of the labels as it ever has been. Which given the internet age we live in is really surprising...or am I missing whole swathes of electronically-marketed heavy metal?

[hornet]

havoc said:

Hornet - a little harsh, but probably not too far off the mark.

Thing is, there ARE lots of decent, original bands out there across metal. But A&R guys have got really conservative and go for bands they KNOW will be popular because they're just like someone who already is...

...and music is arguably now as much in the thrall of the labels as it ever has been. Which given the internet age we live in is really surprising...or am I missing whole swathes of electronically-marketed heavy metal?

I may have embellished that a little bit, but I think the point stands. Modern metal is just too nice. Lemmy still has that undercurrent of menace about him and he's pushing 70! The current bands may be great musicians and probably nice people, but the songs just feel flat to me, there's no soul to any of them. The anger is all rather contrived to ensure it doesn't get too angry, as then Scuzz wouldn't play it...

ETA - listening to Sylosis and it's pretty good, but the vocals are horribly generic, which is a shame, as they're a cut above a lot of the bands out there.

Edited by hornet on Saturday 3rd September 00:35

Edited by hornet on Sunday 4th September 23:38

[havoc]

hornet said:

...as then Scuzz wouldn't play it...

THAT is probably the driver, as much as the labels - metal is no longer "underground" - it has to be TV-friendly. Ludicrous...some of the longest-lived and most influential 'rock/metal/alt' bands have largely eschewed the MTV phenomenon. The exception being Tool, who've avidly embraced videos as an adjunct to their music.

[CommanderJameson]

hornet said:

Right, the stroll home from work has helped me figure out why I dislike Trivium and their ilk. When I was 15 I was listening to thrash, the start of the whole second wave of Black Metal, the beginnings of the Swedish death metal explosion and assorted grindcore bands. My Dad hated it. He was outraged by its lack of taste, the distorted guitars, the subject matter and the general air of malice and unpleasantness. Spin forward to now and I'm sat here aged 37 with the complete opposite being the case. Modern metal isn't remotely angry or unpleasant enough. I should hate it in the same way my Dad hated it, yet I'm completely indifferent to it. Everything about it is a compromise or a watering down of something. Clean vocals and twin guitars? Maiden have and always will do that better. Thrashy bits? The original thrash bands did that better, and indeed are still doing it better today. Shouty bits? There's proper hardcore and crustcore for that. What of the growly bits? Nope, death metal had that covered in about 1988. Everything about modern metal seems to be a watered down compromise. There's no soul to any of it, it's all so by the numbers.

[cj likes this]

[drumsterphil]

There are plenty of great unsigned bands out there but as we're finding trying to find gigs is really hard work - "oh, you're a metal band, no thanks". We recently played a local festival and out of 60 bands on the bill we were the only what I would class as true metal bands (with our roots in thrash, death, black metal) - the rest were screamo bands - and they all sounded and looked EXACTLY the same - v. boring indeed!

I think the likes of Kerrang and Scuzz despite being "metal channels" are boringly formulaeic - same vids on repeat day after day - oh, the new trivium vid, again (for the 10th time today etc).

At least Metal TUUNE is making an effort to show some of the less well-known and more extreme bands.

The other thing is that the internet should be opening things up but perhaps there's too much choice - do you use Facebook, Reverbnation, MySpace to promote your band etc etc

[CommanderJameson]

hornet said:

Four, assuming we're talking about the same band.

Darkness Descends
We Have Arrived
Leave Scars
Time Does Not Heal

Can't look at work, but I'm kind of hoping that clip is either "Burning of Sodom" or "Merciless Death". Ferocious band, even now. Pointy logo too, which is usually a good sign

ETA - Don't think they ever reformed, as I think there were all manner of personal differences at the end. Maybe confused with Forbidden, who have recently(ish) reformed and released a storming album (Omega Wave).

Edited by hornet on Friday 2nd September 20:13

Quite right. Two good albums.

I thought Darkness Descends and We Have Arrived were competent but ruined by genuinely appalling production. I've also got the Live Scars EP and it's similarly blighted.