CSCC Spa Summer Classic
Discussion
I have a bit of a warning for for those going in future, one or two already know the problem I had but here goes.
I took my white Tin Tops Honda CRX and had a few personal problems leading up to SPA so had not had time to test before setting off (i'm sure we have all done that). I found a serious ECU problem in the test session, thought I had it sorted for quantifying but still there.
I sorted the ECU problem and also a fuel pipe had been nipping under cornering which confused matters in time for the first race but a pre suit up check found a CV joint boot had come loose and rather than take the car out and risk wrecking the joint I thought I would fix it ready for the second race.
That is where it got really bad because as I had not started the first race I had been scrubbed from the second and they had put a reserve in my place.
So a fifteen hour journey each way plus the money (dare not add it up yet) for about six miss firing laps.
If it happens to you or someone you know make sure you report to race control before your first race starts.
Oh and to top it all I slightly bumped a car with my trailer in a services near Brussels on the way home and had to give the driver 60 euros to fix it.
I took my white Tin Tops Honda CRX and had a few personal problems leading up to SPA so had not had time to test before setting off (i'm sure we have all done that). I found a serious ECU problem in the test session, thought I had it sorted for quantifying but still there.
I sorted the ECU problem and also a fuel pipe had been nipping under cornering which confused matters in time for the first race but a pre suit up check found a CV joint boot had come loose and rather than take the car out and risk wrecking the joint I thought I would fix it ready for the second race.
That is where it got really bad because as I had not started the first race I had been scrubbed from the second and they had put a reserve in my place.
So a fifteen hour journey each way plus the money (dare not add it up yet) for about six miss firing laps.
If it happens to you or someone you know make sure you report to race control before your first race starts.
Oh and to top it all I slightly bumped a car with my trailer in a services near Brussels on the way home and had to give the driver 60 euros to fix it.
There were a lot of admin / organisational issues over the weekend.
Terrible to hear of your problems davspeed - that's not fair at all. And something that important should have been covered in the briefing or notes. Or perhaps someone should have told you !
Starting with the briefing - I think I asked a perfectly normal question (yep the one about the SC procedure) and had the COC have a go at me. In 14 years of racing I've never seen a SC deployed correctly or in the same way, so seemed a perfectly acceptable question. Surely it's better to ask a question than to get it wrong out on track ?? After all - we're the bloody customers here.
Then the Sevens competitors were told on the morning of qualifying that the couldn't use cut tyres that they had been using for every season of the series. Although the tyre supplier confirmed that the tyres were safe and the practice had been going on for decades (Rallying use cut tyres all the time).
It seems that someone on the grid complained about their use and subsequently everyone that had been using them, which turned out to be quite a few suddenly had to find an alternative.
The Lotus had been turned away from the holding area, then returned and still raced on their cut tyres, and was subsequently thrown out of the race after taking a podium.
To me it's an absolute nonsense.
Firstly on the basis of the organisation. It's totally unjust to pull that kind of change of regs at the 11th hour. I do understand that there was some question over the insurance BUT - a change of the CSCC regs could have been made and that would have resolved the matter.
The Porsche Club of GB used cut 1b tyres for almost a decade without any issues or MSA insurance problems.
Most of the tyres we race on 888's etc are useless verging on dangerous in the wet.
We had the same problem in Caterhams for years when we running on ACB10s - lethal in the wet, eventually they changed to a slightly better tyre.
There's no real cost saving from saying you can't use a "cut wet" tyre. It's safer and it's cheaper with a view that an accident it less likely. It's not a rule that says you have to use it - but it should be a choice.
( Perhaps this needs a thread all to itself )
Terrible to hear of your problems davspeed - that's not fair at all. And something that important should have been covered in the briefing or notes. Or perhaps someone should have told you !
Starting with the briefing - I think I asked a perfectly normal question (yep the one about the SC procedure) and had the COC have a go at me. In 14 years of racing I've never seen a SC deployed correctly or in the same way, so seemed a perfectly acceptable question. Surely it's better to ask a question than to get it wrong out on track ?? After all - we're the bloody customers here.
Then the Sevens competitors were told on the morning of qualifying that the couldn't use cut tyres that they had been using for every season of the series. Although the tyre supplier confirmed that the tyres were safe and the practice had been going on for decades (Rallying use cut tyres all the time).
It seems that someone on the grid complained about their use and subsequently everyone that had been using them, which turned out to be quite a few suddenly had to find an alternative.
The Lotus had been turned away from the holding area, then returned and still raced on their cut tyres, and was subsequently thrown out of the race after taking a podium.
To me it's an absolute nonsense.
Firstly on the basis of the organisation. It's totally unjust to pull that kind of change of regs at the 11th hour. I do understand that there was some question over the insurance BUT - a change of the CSCC regs could have been made and that would have resolved the matter.
The Porsche Club of GB used cut 1b tyres for almost a decade without any issues or MSA insurance problems.
Most of the tyres we race on 888's etc are useless verging on dangerous in the wet.
We had the same problem in Caterhams for years when we running on ACB10s - lethal in the wet, eventually they changed to a slightly better tyre.
There's no real cost saving from saying you can't use a "cut wet" tyre. It's safer and it's cheaper with a view that an accident it less likely. It's not a rule that says you have to use it - but it should be a choice.
( Perhaps this needs a thread all to itself )
Edited by eybic on Tuesday 8th July 17:20
Edited by woof on Tuesday 8th July 17:58
Edited by jeremyc on Wednesday 9th July 09:34
Boxster66 said:
never before have i had my car mist up like that.. race 1 after the 2nd lap i could not see past my bonnet..i couldnt reach the screen to wipe it and then my wipers broke..i was just guessing my way around the track! Horrible... Anti mist and WOOFS wipers made race 2 an easier task! I'll put a video up of race 2 later on.
Oi - Did you give me my blade back ?First I knew of it was photo evidence of Will spanner in hand
I wasn't at Spa so can't comment on the specifics but my PERSONAL view of the cut tyres issue is:
A. The regs state that the tyres have to be from List 1B ie a tyre that has been deemed to be an authorised and road legal spec. If the tyre is cut, it is no longer List 1B, ie they no longer meet the regs.
B. List 1B tyres are road legal and therefore should have an acceptable level of performance in the wet. We may not like their performance compared to true "wets" but its the same for everyone and we drive slower to compensate. We should drive to the capabilities of the car, and not try to exceed it.
C. CSCC mandates List 1B tyres for 2 reasons: 1) to try to save money to prevent people needing to have second sets of tyres (ie "dry" tyres and "wet" tyres) and 2) to save time in the programme to prevent people arguing that they need to change tyres if there is a down pour on the grid.
D. No idea what has happened in Mag7s over the years but if they have been breaking the rules, they have now been found out.
A. The regs state that the tyres have to be from List 1B ie a tyre that has been deemed to be an authorised and road legal spec. If the tyre is cut, it is no longer List 1B, ie they no longer meet the regs.
B. List 1B tyres are road legal and therefore should have an acceptable level of performance in the wet. We may not like their performance compared to true "wets" but its the same for everyone and we drive slower to compensate. We should drive to the capabilities of the car, and not try to exceed it.
C. CSCC mandates List 1B tyres for 2 reasons: 1) to try to save money to prevent people needing to have second sets of tyres (ie "dry" tyres and "wet" tyres) and 2) to save time in the programme to prevent people arguing that they need to change tyres if there is a down pour on the grid.
D. No idea what has happened in Mag7s over the years but if they have been breaking the rules, they have now been found out.
Edited by andy97 on Tuesday 1st July 19:25
Well some problems to get over sure but on the whole i thought the weekend was excellent. Thank you CSCC It was a great trip to in my opinion the best track in Europe.
here is the on board from the Crowthorne.com Tuscan 177 race 2 bloody fantastic race from my seat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ncoorNo0Zg
rear race one..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxV5xiX3DmM
here is the on board from the Crowthorne.com Tuscan 177 race 2 bloody fantastic race from my seat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ncoorNo0Zg
rear race one..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxV5xiX3DmM
Edited by 77racing on Tuesday 1st July 22:37
Well the tyre rule is simple enough as are most CSCC rules...
This is the first 2 laps of arcade 2 from my Boxster #66
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eqPKx_yLeA
Next outing Mallory...
This is the first 2 laps of arcade 2 from my Boxster #66
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eqPKx_yLeA
Next outing Mallory...
I'm very much a supporter of the CSCC and 750MC series.
However, if the Mag 7's coordinator was using the cut tyres like the entire grid, then it's all total nonsense.
And it's clear that the other runners in the CSCC series Future classics etc where using cut tyres as well for many years.
However, if the Mag 7's coordinator was using the cut tyres like the entire grid, then it's all total nonsense.
And it's clear that the other runners in the CSCC series Future classics etc where using cut tyres as well for many years.
Output Flange said:
woof said:
And it's clear that the other runners in the CSCC series Future classics etc where using cut tyres as well for many years.
Really? Which cars?Just saying - surely it's just easier, safer, cheaper to let people use them if they want.
I'm very much a fan of the CSCC - they do a great job, this is just a small glitch that needs to be sorted
I thought the penalty handed out to Nick (lotus Esprit) was a bit arbitrary 3 Minutes??? If the tyres were non-compliant surely you should be excluded from the results, not given some subjective arbitrary time penalty.
This is Robert COC ..... I think they even forgot to put out the checkered flag at the end of the Ardennes Challenge.
This is Robert COC ..... I think they even forgot to put out the checkered flag at the end of the Ardennes Challenge.
cater_racer said:
I thought the penalty handed out to Nick (lotus Esprit) was a bit arbitrary 3 Minutes??? If the tyres were non-compliant surely you should be excluded from the results, not given some subjective arbitrary time penalty.
This is Robert COC ..... I think they even forgot to put out the checkered flag at the end of the Ardennes Challenge.
I was told by a representative of CSCC that the time penalty was handed out by the Belgium chaps not Robert of CSCCThis is Robert COC ..... I think they even forgot to put out the checkered flag at the end of the Ardennes Challenge.
Boxster66 said:
That's the guy who filmed this monster crash https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dQp1S9muYk
Swinging Sixties: http://www.norwichphoto.com/photostore/gallery.php...
Inter-series Cup: http://www.norwichphoto.com/photostore/gallery.php...
This was Saturday races from La Source hairpin. I have some Friday photos to add.
Inter-series Cup: http://www.norwichphoto.com/photostore/gallery.php...
This was Saturday races from La Source hairpin. I have some Friday photos to add.
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