Uk club racing after covid19?
Discussion
At an MSV circuit two staff, ARDS A or above (or otherwise MSV approved peeps) are required as part of the hire agreement for trackdays but that’s mostly about having professionals available to help run an event.
ARDS say that a B grade is the minimum for instructing on trackdays, I can’t remember if there’s any specific requirements under the AMRCO insurance that some TDOs use.
None of which matters from a drivers insurance or ATDO POV, for the foreseeable future no instructors are getting in cars with punters but the general requirements above don’t require it, they just need staff on site.
ARDS say that a B grade is the minimum for instructing on trackdays, I can’t remember if there’s any specific requirements under the AMRCO insurance that some TDOs use.
None of which matters from a drivers insurance or ATDO POV, for the foreseeable future no instructors are getting in cars with punters but the general requirements above don’t require it, they just need staff on site.
Nampahc Niloc said:
But are they really a requirement to run the event? Surely the majority of those at the track day don’t take an instructor out with them.
No of course they aren't.To the poster above raising all the objections for things like the PLI. Don't you think that the "powers that be" in these circumstances may also have thought of those things? And maybe consulted with their insurance company to change the conditions of cover (for example)?
Bert
Nampahc Niloc said:
LucyP said:
No one seems keen to return to work. No one seems keen to send their child back to school.
Racing will still be banned until after the end of June.
“No one” is a massive exaggeration. I know plenty of people who are keen to get back to work and are keen to get their kids back to school. I also know plenty of racers who are keen to get back on track. If risk can be reduced to a reasonable level then we should be doing these things. There is a big difference between perceived risk and actual risk. Racing will still be banned until after the end of June.
cjslator said:
The problem with predicting race meetings will run from ddmmyy is that all decisions need to be fluid, and will be completely dependent on the R value staying low as restrictions ease. Additionally, MS UK will be setting the policy on how a meeting will be run to allow for distancing and minimise risk to the nation. For example, I very much doubt that any marshal posts in the UK will be large enough to cater for all mandated marshals as stipulated in the blue book whilst maintaining social distancing.
On nice days posts will be fine, marshals can spread along the wall easily enough. Only the observer or flaggy will get the good view mind you. Its the rainy days when everyone wants shelter that it'll be a pain. Most race controls on the other hand well be the difficult bit.
BertBert said:
No of course they aren't.
To the poster above raising all the objections for things like the PLI. Don't you think that the "powers that be" in these circumstances may also have thought of those things? And maybe consulted with their insurance company to change the conditions of cover (for example)?
Bert
Not objections, I think they're best described as discussion points. The discussion point is aiming towards is that any on track activity if delivered to reduce the risk of spreading potential infection won't satisfy the general standards set by the National Governing Body (for competition) or ATDO (for trackdays). Much like safety standards of vehicles on the road at the moment, the onus is on the owners to ensure their vehicles are safe but there are currently vehicles on the road which in normal situations would have had an MOT.To the poster above raising all the objections for things like the PLI. Don't you think that the "powers that be" in these circumstances may also have thought of those things? And maybe consulted with their insurance company to change the conditions of cover (for example)?
Bert
Steve, I get that formally they only need to be onsite but realistically that's just a loophole. There's no way that the industry standard states that an elevated professional competence above the baseline is required if they aren't required to get in cars to instruct. The consideration about insurance is that some/most trackday insurance policies are for events from ATDO members (therefore meeting the recognised standard) and whether a trackday not delivered to the standard would allow for an insurance claim or just a means for an insurance company to wriggle out of a claim.
cjslator said:
Not objections, I think they're best described as discussion points. The discussion point is aiming towards is that any on track activity if delivered to reduce the risk of spreading potential infection won't satisfy the general standards set by the National Governing Body (for competition) or ATDO (for trackdays). Much like safety standards of vehicles on the road at the moment, the onus is on the owners to ensure their vehicles are safe but there are currently vehicles on the road which in normal situations would have had an MOT.
Steve, I get that formally they only need to be onsite but realistically that's just a loophole. There's no way that the industry standard states that an elevated professional competence above the baseline is required if they aren't required to get in cars to instruct. The consideration about insurance is that some/most trackday insurance policies are for events from ATDO members (therefore meeting the recognised standard) and whether a trackday not delivered to the standard would allow for an insurance claim or just a means for an insurance company to wriggle out of a claim.
Yep that’s a fair point and the ATDO does say that car trackdays must have on-track instruction available but the risk of that allowing an insurance company to avoid paying out on a claim is for individual drivers to assess - it doesn’t stop the events from running. Steve, I get that formally they only need to be onsite but realistically that's just a loophole. There's no way that the industry standard states that an elevated professional competence above the baseline is required if they aren't required to get in cars to instruct. The consideration about insurance is that some/most trackday insurance policies are for events from ATDO members (therefore meeting the recognised standard) and whether a trackday not delivered to the standard would allow for an insurance claim or just a means for an insurance company to wriggle out of a claim.
Most trackdayers don’t have insurance anyway, most of those that do don’t take instruction and very few are obliged to by their insurance policy so I don’t see it being a particularly viable loophole. If insurance companies are issuing cover at a time where it will be very clear that in-car instruction isn’t going to be happening they might struggle to rely on that later to avoid a claim.
Either way, trackdays can run without the ATDO, unlike MSUK they are not a licensing body.
ChevronB19 said:
As an ex instructor (a mere grade C), I was terrified enough by some of the people I instructed, and that was before coronavirus!
I’m guessing you spent a fair bit of time working on experience days? I find trackdayers to be much more "invested" in getting back in one piece
.Drumroll said:
Guys can we move this discussion to the track day thread. What track days do has no rellavance to the return of circuit racing.
It kind of does, it’s the first step back in and while much simpler than a race meeting any issues that arise will be a guide to what happens next with racing. Steve H said:
It kind of does, it’s the first step back in and while much simpler than a race meeting any issues that arise will be a guide to what happens next with racing.
No, because most of what you are discussing is about instructors and insurance, nothing what so ever to do with club racing.Drumroll said:
Steve H said:
It kind of does, it’s the first step back in and while much simpler than a race meeting any issues that arise will be a guide to what happens next with racing.
No, because most of what you are discussing is about instructors and insurance, nothing what so ever to do with club racing.Will the lack of hotels be an issue or will they back by then? Camping over summer is one thing. Erecting a tent late at night in the October/ November rain before an early start the next morning is not quite so fun. Of course those with motor homes will be laughing.
I’m ready for all the “stop being a spoilt wimp” responses, but it will definitely be a consideration with how far I’m willing to travel. I usually set off after work, so as to not waste a day’s leave, and I have little interest in putting up a tent at 1 o’clock in the morning.
mcdjl said:
On nice days posts will be fine, marshals can spread along the wall easily enough. Only the observer or flaggy will get the good view mind you. Its the rainy days when everyone wants shelter that it'll be a pain.
Most race controls on the other hand well be the difficult bit.
Race control is a good shout, social distancing will not be easy in there (not the one I'm used to anyway). Most race controls on the other hand well be the difficult bit.
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