New to Hill-Climbing/Sprints

[GibsonSG]

Trev450 said:

chunder27 said:

I had exactly the same when looking at competing in a bog standard 306 GTI6 that had no interior.

Would have been in the mod prod class due to no cage, and went to one meeting to have a look, and would have been a waste of time, when you consider the larger costs involved in getting everything safety wise, it just seems a huge waste of money when all you are really doing is fast road driving on a closed road.

Helmet yes, but no real need for fire suits, gloves, boots in road cars. Even a roll cage in low level hill and sprint events for me is negligible.

So I just got on with something less stuffy

And clearly lost touch with what is required. MSA approved helmet, race suit and gloves are mandatory irrespective of the class you're in.
It would have been your lack of interior and not a cage that would have placed you in mod prod

I’ve experienced no stuffiness whatsoever - exactly the opposite in fact, the camaraderie has been a joy.

Also, I agree - it’s the lack of interior that made it Mod Prod. For lesser classes you only need the approved race suit, helmet and gloves - no boots are needed. If you work to the Blue Book it’s not that onerous, I guess we all (me included) want to go out and build something special to start with, which is not the best idea IMHO.

[Need For Tweed]

chunder27 said:

I had exactly the same when looking at competing in a bog standard 306 GTI6 that had no interior.

Would have been in the mod prod class due to no cage, and went to one meeting to have a look, and would have been a waste of time, when you consider the larger costs involved in getting everything safety wise, it just seems a huge waste of money when all you are really doing is fast road driving on a closed road.

Helmet yes, but no real need for fire suits, gloves, boots in road cars. Even a roll cage in low level hill and sprint events for me is negligible.

So I just got on with something less stuffy

Not quite. As already mentioned, it's not the safety equipment that was the problem but the lack of trim. As a driver you need a suitable helmet, suit, and gloves, but you don't have to have expensive race boots, certainly not for the events I enter. I would add that not wearing the right gear is daft when you're driving a car at it's limits competitively. You're not just driving fast on a closed road, you're trying to find that extra fraction of a second to win your class or beat your personal best. As such, the risks of visiting the scenery are far higher.

As for the car, for the last 15 years I've used a road legal period modified classic car (1966 Volvo Amazon with uprated engine and suspension to homologated spec) for sprints, hill climbs and road rallies. On track I compete against a group of Minis, a Lotus Elan, other Volvos, and a R8 Gordini and I'm having loads of fun. I'm based in Lincolnshire and drive the car to every event and even collect the odd trophy from time to time. Keeping the rear seats and interior trim means I'm in the road going classes of most speed events I enter even though I have a cage and race seats in the front. Take out the rear seats and I would be in the modified class. Change the metal bonnet for a plastic one and I would be in the modified class. Swap out glass windows for Perspex and I would be....you get the picture. In fact, roll cages aren't a requirement, but they are recommended. Virtually any road car can enter most speed events simply with the addition of a sticker on the dash showing where the on/off position is for the ignition key.

In short, you just need to check the regs before jumping in.

Oh, and 'stuffy'? No idea why you think that, but I'd be interested to know. My knackered old Volvo has been welcomed to a wide range of events, including Loton, Wiscombe, Curborough, Crystal Palace, Epynt, Shelsley and Prescott. If anyone was going to be labelled as 'stuffy' you'd have thought that Prescott, the home of the Bugatti Owners Club would be. The reality is that they're one of the friendliest bunch out there!

[Galveston]

I love competing in the 'standard car' class in my Clio 172 Cup. It's as it left the factory, runs on Michelin Pilot Sport 3 tyres (MSA List 1A). It's fun, it's competitive (I'm usually well inside the top-half at sprints), it's reliable and it's just so easy.

Surely the way forward for a newcomer to the sport?

[Galveston]

chunder27 said:

it just seems a huge waste of money when all you are really doing is fast road driving on a closed road.

Fast road driving? Not if you want to do well.

[Vocal Minority]

Meh - chunder thinks something is st shocker

If you drive like that on the road you are breaking a lot of rules.

Or hill climbing very cautiously.

[egor110]

Vocal Minority said:

Meh - chunder thinks something is st shocker

If you drive like that on the road you are breaking a lot of rules.

Or hill climbing very cautiously.

Surely hill climbing is far riskier than track stuff ?

tracks have lovely run off areas , hill climbs have no run off areas , buildings , trees etc right next to the single lane road your flying up.

[Trev450]

egor110 said:

Vocal Minority said:

Meh - chunder thinks something is st shocker

If you drive like that on the road you are breaking a lot of rules.

Or hill climbing very cautiously.

Surely hill climbing is far riskier than track stuff ?

tracks have lovely run off areas , hill climbs have no run off areas , buildings , trees etc right next to the single lane road your flying up.

This is true in some cases, but some tracks have no run-off areas either. Castle Combe for example.

[HorneyMX5]

egor110 said:

Vocal Minority said:

Meh - chunder thinks something is st shocker

If you drive like that on the road you are breaking a lot of rules.

Or hill climbing very cautiously.

Surely hill climbing is far riskier than track stuff ?

tracks have lovely run off areas , hill climbs have no run off areas , buildings , trees etc right next to the single lane road your flying up.

Indeed. I sprint with Farnborough District Motorclub and their Sprint Royale is at Eelmore Driver Training area which is lined with trees only 2 or 3 foot past the edge of the tarmac. Cock that up and you'll banana your car. Here's a vid of my old MX5 at that event:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76mVXFBNxv8

As other have said, you need to start with the rules and work from their. Take into account different clubs often have different supplementary regs as well.

FDMC run a class structure that has a 1600cc - 2300cc Road Going class, where many simply just run a 2000cc and above. The reason for this is to have a class where were 1.6 Turbos (2240cc as per Blue Book Multiplier for forced induction) can enjoy healthy competition without being in the same class as supercharged V8s, M3s etc. That means your bog standard Fiesta STs, Clio RS, Mini Cooper S's can all turn up and be in with a chance of silverware, although it does handicap the 1.8 and 2.0 NA guys.

I've sprinted a 1.6 Supercharged MX5 and now a Supercharged R53 Mini Cooper S. It's a lot of fun and I actually prefer it to circuit racing, it's a real short sharp buzz.

Here's a vid of the Mini from this year:

https://youtu.be/UJ-PJm7wI_c

[egor110]

Trev450 said:

egor110 said:

Vocal Minority said:

Meh - chunder thinks something is st shocker

If you drive like that on the road you are breaking a lot of rules.

Or hill climbing very cautiously.

Surely hill climbing is far riskier than track stuff ?

tracks have lovely run off areas , hill climbs have no run off areas , buildings , trees etc right next to the single lane road your flying up.

This is true in some cases, but some tracks have no run-off areas either. Castle Combe for example.

Castle Combe although it’s tight has acres of run off compared to a hill climb.

For instance the entire infield , hill climb and if your lucky you have a ditch then a field or worse you have a tree or wall.

[Trev450]

egor110 said:

Castle Combe although it’s tight has acres of run off compared to a hill climb.

For instance the entire infield , hill climb and if your lucky you have a ditch then a field or worse you have a tree or wall.

I'm sure there are plenty of people that have found Quarry and Tower take no prisoners if you get it wrong, but point taken.

[df76]

Trev450 said:

egor110 said:

Castle Combe although it’s tight has acres of run off compared to a hill climb.

For instance the entire infield , hill climb and if your lucky you have a ditch then a field or worse you have a tree or wall.

I'm sure there are plenty of people that have found Quarry and Tower take no prisoners if you get it wrong, but point taken.

You are also travelling much quicker at Combe or Goodwood than on your average hillclimb.

[egor110]

Trev450 said:

egor110 said:

Castle Combe although it’s tight has acres of run off compared to a hill climb.

For instance the entire infield , hill climb and if your lucky you have a ditch then a field or worse you have a tree or wall.

I'm sure there are plenty of people that have found Quarry and Tower take no prisoners if you get it wrong, but point taken.

Hence why quarry is responsible for something like 40% of track accidents in the UK

[Drumroll]

egor110 said:

Hence why quarry is responsible for something like 40% of track accidents in the UK

Where did that statistic come from?

[egor110]

Drumroll said:

egor110 said:

Hence why quarry is responsible for something like 40% of track accidents in the UK

Where did that statistic come from?

They state it at marshals training

[MagicalTrevor]

I echo the above comments. You're getting into a whole world of pain if you change the engine, you'll be Sports Libre and up against Radicals and other exotic beasts.

These particular regs are a nuisance for attracting new people to the sport as people often progress from track days where they've already started to do simple stuff to make their car faster, such as removing interior. This puts you in Modified Production (ModProd) where you'll be expected to have a HANS device.

I've competed in SL, Racing Cars >2000cc, an MX5 specific championship and now road going (in the MX5). I think, in most places, a standard RX8 would do well with 230bhp and I'd definitely recommend starting in road-going.

[Drumroll]

egor110 said:

Drumroll said:

egor110 said:

Hence why quarry is responsible for something like 40% of track accidents in the UK

Where did that statistic come from?

They state it at marshals training

Because someone states it doesn't make it true. For a circuit that has limited race meetings and track days I personally don't see how 40% of all accidents happen there. If you had said Paddock Hill (Brands hatch) then I could see it.

As I originally said where is the actual statistic? Having been involved in Motorsport for over 40 years I am not aware of any actual statistics on "accidents per corner" (doesn't mean they don't exist but not aware of them)

[Vocal Minority]

MagicalTrevor said:

I think, in most places, a standard RX8 would do well with 230bhp and I'd definitely recommend starting in road-going.

It's very, very heavy for hill climbing - as I am finding out!

[HorneyMX5]

Drumroll said:

egor110 said:

Drumroll said:

egor110 said:

Hence why quarry is responsible for something like 40% of track accidents in the UK

Where did that statistic come from?

They state it at marshals training

Because someone states it doesn't make it true. For a circuit that has limited race meetings and track days I personally don't see how 40% of all accidents happen there. If you had said Paddock Hill (Brands hatch) then I could see it.

As I originally said where is the actual statistic? Having been involved in Motorsport for over 40 years I am not aware of any actual statistics on "accidents per corner" (doesn't mean they don't exist but not aware of them)

They trot it out all the time and I'm fairly sure it's more of a guestimate than a hard statistic but I actually don't think it's the far off the mark. They run 5 or 6 "Action Days" a year at the circuit and there's always a good handful of cars in the tyres at Quarry at everyone. Race meet weekends there's always at least one multi car pile up on lap one of a race heading in there.

I get trackday cover as part of my road car insurance, they won't cover Combe at all. I think that says a fair amount as well, they clearly made that decision off some kind of statistics.

[GibsonSG]

Need For Tweed said:

chunder27 said:

I had exactly the same when looking at competing in a bog standard 306 GTI6 that had no interior.

Would have been in the mod prod class due to no cage, and went to one meeting to have a look, and would have been a waste of time, when you consider the larger costs involved in getting everything safety wise, it just seems a huge waste of money when all you are really doing is fast road driving on a closed road.

Helmet yes, but no real need for fire suits, gloves, boots in road cars. Even a roll cage in low level hill and sprint events for me is negligible.

So I just got on with something less stuffy

Not quite. As already mentioned, it's not the safety equipment that was the problem but the lack of trim. As a driver you need a suitable helmet, suit, and gloves, but you don't have to have expensive race boots, certainly not for the events I enter. I would add that not wearing the right gear is daft when you're driving a car at it's limits competitively. You're not just driving fast on a closed road, you're trying to find that extra fraction of a second to win your class or beat your personal best. As such, the risks of visiting the scenery are far higher.

As for the car, for the last 15 years I've used a road legal period modified classic car (1966 Volvo Amazon with uprated engine and suspension to homologated spec) for sprints, hill climbs and road rallies. On track I compete against a group of Minis, a Lotus Elan, other Volvos, and a R8 Gordini and I'm having loads of fun. I'm based in Lincolnshire and drive the car to every event and even collect the odd trophy from time to time. Keeping the rear seats and interior trim means I'm in the road going classes of most speed events I enter even though I have a cage and race seats in the front. Take out the rear seats and I would be in the modified class. Change the metal bonnet for a plastic one and I would be in the modified class. Swap out glass windows for Perspex and I would be....you get the picture. In fact, roll cages aren't a requirement, but they are recommended. Virtually any road car can enter most speed events simply with the addition of a sticker on the dash showing where the on/off position is for the ignition key.

In short, you just need to check the regs before jumping in.

Oh, and 'stuffy'? No idea why you think that, but I'd be interested to know. My knackered old Volvo has been welcomed to a wide range of events, including Loton, Wiscombe, Curborough, Crystal Palace, Epynt, Shelsley and Prescott. If anyone was going to be labelled as 'stuffy' you'd have thought that Prescott, the home of the Bugatti Owners Club would be. The reality is that they're one of the friendliest bunch out there!

Were you at Abingdon Sprint on the 9th June? I was paddocked a few cars away from a vigourously driven Amazon. It was black and I’m sure the driver said it was a loaner while his car was in dry dock....

[MagicalTrevor]

Vocal Minority said:

MagicalTrevor said:

I think, in most places, a standard RX8 would do well with 230bhp and I'd definitely recommend starting in road-going.

It's very, very heavy for hill climbing - as I am finding out!

I had no idea they were so heavy! Well that's poor advice, I assumed/thought they were reasonably lightweight.