Ultima GTR vs. FFR GTM?

[Daveyh]

..could have built one by now...!

[andygtt]

Seriously Tiger I think you need to do more research... I know Fran and he is a top bloke so you wont go far wrong with him but you do seem to go steaming in with little or no information of your own and make rash judgements.

Before you overspend on a car and spec you don't know you will like, please go and see and speak to a few owners of all the cars, talk about the spec you have in mind (Jeff does road racing etc) and what you want the car for etc... then make your informed choice.

The cars you are looking at are all road cars and as such will need modifying to become a good racer, you may be able to buy an actual race car and modify it to meet your needs for less if thats what you are really after.... I personnely doubt this but with the money you are spending you need at least explore it.

[Hurricane Tiger]

andygtt said:

Seriously Tiger I think you need to do more research... I know Fran and he is a top bloke so you wont go far wrong with him but you do seem to go steaming in with little or no information of your own and make rash judgements.

Before you overspend on a car and spec you don't know you will like, please go and see and speak to a few owners of all the cars, talk about the spec you have in mind (Jeff does road racing etc) and what you want the car for etc... then make your informed choice.

The cars you are looking at are all road cars and as such will need modifying to become a good racer, you may be able to buy an actual race car and modify it to meet your needs for less if thats what you are really after.... I personnely doubt this but with the money you are spending you need at least explore it.

I understand what your saying. Really I do.

But Ive followed the build up and development of the GTM from about 2003-2004 when it was still yellow and ducktailed.

And I was a fan of the Ultima GTR since before 2000 and the Ultima Can Am .

Me and my friend Brian argued forever about how awesome the car was. And I always held out that YES....fact is that its one of the greatest cars OF ALL TIME......

BUT I just wish it had been updated IN A BIG redesign in the last ten years and MAYBE was a lil sexier...

And you know I HONESTLY think in all the millions of dollars of kits they've sold they COULD have made it even a LIL sexier over time.

............................................................................

Im NEVER EVER going to convince you guys....this IS the Ultima Forum.

But I'll admit that when it comes to track prowess the GTM at the same investment may well only perform ON TRACK to 90% of the purpouse built Ultima.

THAT BIENG SAID....

Ive looked at the forum posts, read what was to be read, and stood it next to the older heavier and much less aestetic Ultima.....and I didnt just feel it was BETTER than the Ultima..... I felt it was EXACTLY what the Ultima would be and after a couple weeks decided to call Fran himself and ask him questions about the Superlite coupe.

The superlite coupe

Guys...The Ultima (as Ive checked in the History of the official site) as it stands as a mark 3 IS ABOUT 20-21 YEARS OLD....

YES I KNOW about all the changes....but theyre year to year small changes like better fiberglass and engine options....

I'll say it again guys

The Factory Five GTM as my street race car. *
And the RCR Superlite coupe as my track car. **

AND....THE SECOND that the Ultima people do a little aesthetic work to the front like the MASSIVE ammount of changes the back end went through...I'll buy one.

I'll say as always.....THAT I LOVE the Ultima!
And I have decided any TRUE race garage would benifit from it and its CONSIDERABLE bragging rights.

So you guys win.....I'll most likely buy an Ultima too. I recently went on the site and saw the little things I missed and see that It would look REALLY nice next to the Superlite coupe and the GTM.

But heres what I see...

The Superlite coupe....

Is...

Lighter
Newer
Better looking
And instead of a steel tubeframe its an Air Craft Quality monocoque....
and instead of steal tube suspension etc....BILLIT ACQ ALUMINUM

Also has a rear window....oooohhhhh

The Superlite is the Ultima of the future.

And Im buying it ....and the GTM....and an Ultima WHEN they change the front end.





YOU GUYS WIN....

For wich is a better 'TRACK CAR'...BETWEEN the ULTIMA GTR and the FFR GTM!

Be proud that the die hard zealot of the GTM has capitulated....on THAT

NOW lets start a RCR Superlite Coupe VS Ultima GTR Thread.

Ps dear SlackBlevens....Im in grief counciling actualy....I was told to find focus on something positive with my father. And my car obsession IS that focus.

My bench racing is harmless....when Im done building....Is when you need to worry. LOL

[andygtt]

Tiger, I am not building an Ultima.
I did that and sold mine a few years ago and after exhaustive research I am building my own design of car from scratch...... So I am not saying an Ultima or GTM is right for you or that the RCR isn't and if pressed and I had to decide between the 3 I'd probably go for the the RCR from Fran.

But you are right, this is an Ultima forum and you will get biased views about the Ultima here especially after flaming the car.

All I am saying is that IMHO you are not doing enough of your own research and seem to be jumping to all sorts of conclusions without basis.

For example if you really want the BEST of the BEST then I could give you a spec sheet for $200k of which only $40 will be the kit, I also personnelly know people who have spent this kind of money building the best of the best... In fact I know one guy who spent £1.5million having his dream car built from scratch.

So you really need to have done your homework if you want to build this car for $140k as thats not an open budget for any car....

[S4E Jord]

Hey guys,

Just thought i would let you know that Factory Five are now being imported into the UK. The UK website should be up and running soon.

just managed to borrow a build manual for the GTM so i can have a look. first impressions are it looks amazing.

[johnwool]

I would advise caution and take a good look through the USA factory five GTM owners/builders forum, there are serious issues with the GTM in terms of bodywork issues, build quality issues and backorder issues. Bodywork needs 4 months of prep/remedial work prior to paint according to owners....., not a gel coat option either.
They are way behind in development compared to the Ultima it seems IMHO.

[San Diego GTR]

This will be telling. The market is the ultimate arbiter...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Replica-Kit-Makes-F...

[crafty]

Corvette GTP replica.... $150K????

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Corvette-...

[Davi]

crafty said:

Corvette GTP replica.... $150K????

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Corvette-...

The great thing about that is you could park up anything you've made yourself beside it and be guaranteed it would still look good! HOW fugly is it?!

[David Borden]

All,

Its been a while since posting, but just completed a couple videos for your viewing pleasure.(also posted this in the kit car section)

First is a short video of me autocrossing the GTM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwLBXZgeTs0

The second, is of track footage of the two factory GTMs at Pheonix International Raceway. The black car has a stock G50-01 with a stock LS6, the red car has a stock LS7, with a GT2 transaxle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dsRe3sGiAE

Let me know what you think...

David

[mohrt]

David Borden said:

All,

Its been a while since posting, but just completed a couple videos for your viewing pleasure.(also posted this in the kit car section)

First is a short video of me autocrossing the GTM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwLBXZgeTs0

The second, is of track footage of the two factory GTMs at Pheonix International Raceway. The black car has a stock G50-01 with a stock LS6, the red car has a stock LS7, with a GT2 transaxle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dsRe3sGiAE

Let me know what you think...

David

Regarding the second video, get rid of that background noise! We want to hear those engines! Otherwise good

[craig7l]

S4E Jord said:

Hey guys,

Just thought i would let you know that Factory Five are now being imported into the UK. The UK website should be up and running soon.

just managed to borrow a build manual for the GTM so i can have a look. first impressions are it looks amazing.

The car is imported through WWW.innotecworld.com

The car ISNT available RHD with factory five having NO plans of doing so. The car "lends" itself quite easily to be RHD converted from LHD and thats the words of the technical sales guy at FFR.

This car in LHD form would have to be on a Q plate as more than one item is a recon or 2nd hand part
looks Okish but not for me

[LuckyP]

Braking mid corner won't help your traction But you can blame your tyre pressures if you like He-he!!

[David Borden]

LuckyP said:

Braking mid corner won't help your traction But you can blame your tyre pressures if you like He-he!!

;) thats called trail braking... and if you noticed, the slide started before the brake lights came on... and I trail braked on every run. I set my tire pressure before leaving the house in the early morning, made one run giving a friend a ride, and forgot to check em again. They pumped up 10psi. The car drove like the track had sand all over it. Very loose. Surface temp of the track surface was about 130 degrees F.(stupid hot)

[LuckyP]

David Borden said:

LuckyP said:

Braking mid corner won't help your traction But you can blame your tyre pressures if you like He-he!!

;) thats called trail braking... and if you noticed, the slide started before the brake lights came on... and I trail braked on every run. I set my tire pressure before leaving the house in the early morning, made one run giving a friend a ride, and forgot to check em again. They pumped up 10psi. The car drove like the track had sand all over it. Very loose. Surface temp of the track surface was about 130 degrees F.(stupid hot)

He-he!! Sorry Dave, rude of me to have a stab, but from where I'm sitting it's a case of going on to hard, lift off oversteer followed by a tap of the brakes, making the already unstable car slide even more with continued application as you tank slap under opposite lock to correct. Main thin was you pulled it off and got the car back.....you can call it trail braking if you like!!

In my uneducated world a trail brake would be brakes applied to slow the car to the correct speed for entry and a CONTINUED application to keep a nose down attitude (fronts weighted) whilst the power is slowly fed in to balance the car and bring it flat for the entry without throwing all the weight forward or aft in one stab of brakes or throttle.

No slurr on you or your car, just the way I see that particular chain of events.

I've been there......and beyond!!!

[kylemrushall]

David Borden said:

All,

Its been a while since posting, but just completed a couple videos for your viewing pleasure.(also posted this in the kit car section)

First is a short video of me autocrossing the GTM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwLBXZgeTs0

The second, is of track footage of the two factory GTMs at Pheonix International Raceway. The black car has a stock G50-01 with a stock LS6, the red car has a stock LS7, with a GT2 transaxle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dsRe3sGiAE

Let me know what you think...

David

umm .... not a lot

serious turn in problems!!! they didnt seem to be hitting many apex's but i suppose it was only a promo??? A pretty car though.

I think Richards 720 looks a lot lot sharper

[David Borden]

LuckyP said:

David Borden said:

LuckyP said:

Braking mid corner won't help your traction But you can blame your tyre pressures if you like He-he!!

;) thats called trail braking... and if you noticed, the slide started before the brake lights came on... and I trail braked on every run. I set my tire pressure before leaving the house in the early morning, made one run giving a friend a ride, and forgot to check em again. They pumped up 10psi. The car drove like the track had sand all over it. Very loose. Surface temp of the track surface was about 130 degrees F.(stupid hot)

He-he!! Sorry Dave, rude of me to have a stab, but from where I'm sitting it's a case of going on to hard, lift off oversteer followed by a tap of the brakes, making the already unstable car slide even more with continued application as you tank slap under opposite lock to correct. Main thin was you pulled it off and got the car back.....you can call it trail braking if you like!!

In my uneducated world a trail brake would be brakes applied to slow the car to the correct speed for entry and a CONTINUED application to keep a nose down attitude (fronts weighted) whilst the power is slowly fed in to balance the car and bring it flat for the entry without throwing all the weight forward or aft in one stab of brakes or throttle.

No slurr on you or your car, just the way I see that particular chain of events.

I've been there......and beyond!!!

... yeah, I see the point from your perspective. That's an very EDUCATED description of trail braking, right on the money I guess you needed to be in the car. It was just stupid loose, particularly at the end of the slalom, so needed to let the car settle a bit before applying the brakes(since the car was already sideways)

Go easy on my now... I'm actually a 4+ year regional champion, and nationals podium winner in autocross, and a national and regional road race champion, so have been there and beyond too

Cheers! David

[spatz]

it seems that the retard is not active any more, however I have seen a GTM recently here in Germany, and I can tell
you that the only thing I liked about it is that the interior is offering more space with an easier access into the car.
Other than that it looked kit car quality. The guy who should push it through the Tuev said half of it is not really working.....
Honestly I like the styling of the GTM kit, but what I have seen did not impress me. I would need to see more in the flesh
if that particular one was a poor built or if they all look like this when finished.

[harry b]

Can't help it, but the design language reminds me of this:

http://www.ftbonito.com/b/index.html

[blahblop123]

sorry to bring this thread up, some of the comments on here made me cringe, the amount of ignorance. but anyways i was watching an interesting comparison video of a well prepped FF GTM vs a Gumpert Apollo Sport.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jofafHe5tlI

this GTM was a 700hp varient and weighed in at 2700lbs, around the same as the Gumpert. it did 0-100-0 in 14s, and it was left for dead by the gumpert on track, as in, FOR DEAD. the GTR720 has already shown how it can devour the gumpert's time by almost 5 seconds around the top gear track. this kind of answers the question of how it compares to ultima and tbh, judging by this, the GTR is in a different league. i think that proves that low weight doesn't automatically mean fast around the track.

I do love the basic, yet civilised interior of the GTM, and the roll down windows. its more a cruiser/show car, than a supercar murdering track monster like the GTR. As for the looks, i dont think the fact that its a GT40/ferrari barstad child is something to be proud of. Its pretty much advertising the fact you couldn't afford a real ferrari/gt40, but all in all, i like it.

VERDICT
1) ultima is MUCH faster. cornering, acceleration, top speed whatever.
2) they are as comfy and quiet as each other. they are both spartan and biased for the track, so that'll show.
3)the GTM has a better, more civilised interior, and has roll down windows.
4)as for value for money, i'd go ultima, £50k (including 20% VAT) for something with a proven pedigree, and is, essentially, a new car. whereas the GTM, unproven, with varying performance depending on how good you are at buying used cars (c5) and used parts. some parts will be more used and worn out than others and if they fail, well, your in trouble. personally, i wouldn't take that risk and i value my life more than the $30k i would be bound to save had i gone the GTM with a used c5 route.