Engine options
Discussion
I suppose a drysump sysytem would be a waste? I know Stealth engineers put a drysump system on their cars which use the chevy powerplant. I'm not sure if their is a well designed kit that Stealth used or if it's alot of custom plumbing and headaches.
When taking a car out to the track does the wet sump have any problems? I know in my e36 M3 braking and going into gradual left corners can cause starvation.
When taking a car out to the track does the wet sump have any problems? I know in my e36 M3 braking and going into gradual left corners can cause starvation.
I think the BMW V12 in the F1 was based on two E36 M3 engines sharing the same crank, rather than the 750 engine. I may be wrong, but this is what I thought.
Also, there is little point putting anything other than a small block Chevy in the Ultima. I will get a GTR when I get a garage to build it in, and half the attraction will be a simple, large capacity engine that I will have bolted in myself. They're cheap as chips from American speed. If you want less weight, the alloy block is an expensive but available option. There are a few Z06 engines for sale second hand on the yank forums for about 5-7k GBP - maybe a cheaper way of getting a lighter unit.
I think anything over 400 bhp would be adequate. 500 would be scary but I believe the factory have reservations around/above 550 bhp re cooling.
Viper V10 engine is crated and would mate to similar bellhousing arrangement, as they use the ZF six speed too. Maybe that would be an option if not too long. Expensive at approx 10k GBP from jim pace.
Rgds
Domster
Also, there is little point putting anything other than a small block Chevy in the Ultima. I will get a GTR when I get a garage to build it in, and half the attraction will be a simple, large capacity engine that I will have bolted in myself. They're cheap as chips from American speed. If you want less weight, the alloy block is an expensive but available option. There are a few Z06 engines for sale second hand on the yank forums for about 5-7k GBP - maybe a cheaper way of getting a lighter unit.
I think anything over 400 bhp would be adequate. 500 would be scary but I believe the factory have reservations around/above 550 bhp re cooling.
Viper V10 engine is crated and would mate to similar bellhousing arrangement, as they use the ZF six speed too. Maybe that would be an option if not too long. Expensive at approx 10k GBP from jim pace.
Rgds
Domster
Domster - The 6-speed used in the Ultima is a Getrac box not the ZF. The ZF is not a transaxle so would not be adaptable (shame). The Viper V10 is closer to the spirit of an Ultima rather than a refined BMW/Audi/Jag V8 .... Seems the Chevvy has all the bases covered.
Good luck with the build when it starts.
Paul
Good luck with the build when it starts.
Paul
Hi Paul
Yup, I was merely thinking (quite stupidly!) that if Ultima did a bellhousing for G50 to Chevy, for example, then a G50 to Viper bellhousing may be similarish. Of course this is bollocks because of clutch and block size etc, so forgive me for being a donkey!
I will defo go the Chevy route, and either a modded G50 or that nice cable change six speeder.
Rgds
Domster
Yup, I was merely thinking (quite stupidly!) that if Ultima did a bellhousing for G50 to Chevy, for example, then a G50 to Viper bellhousing may be similarish. Of course this is bollocks because of clutch and block size etc, so forgive me for being a donkey!
I will defo go the Chevy route, and either a modded G50 or that nice cable change six speeder.
Rgds
Domster
FWIW, according to "Driving Ambition", the McLaren F1's V12 weighed 586 lbs.
This compares with 607 lbs for a standard BMW M70 V12. I've never confirmed a
price for this unit, but rumors on various message boards put it at right around $200K.
Gen II Vipers (after '96-ish) are around 650 lbs.
Here in the States, a complete crate motor runs $13-17K,
depending on where you look. Probably quite a bit
more than a standard LS6. But these engines can be
tuned to 700-777 horses, all naturally aspirated. With forced induction, 800-1000 is
not out of the question.
For the ultimate in modern Chevy performance, you
might want to try the 427TT package by Lingenfelter:
http://innotech.racerplanet.com/s6.jpg
Keep in mind those times were achieved with Mickey
Thompson E/T "drag radials". They are slightly
treaded and are indeed street legal (Department of
Transportation approved), but they're really no good for turning.
Lingenfelter and Doug Rippie Motorsports will also do
500 horses, naturally aspirated.
>> Edited by Guibo on Friday 12th July 00:23
This compares with 607 lbs for a standard BMW M70 V12. I've never confirmed a
price for this unit, but rumors on various message boards put it at right around $200K.
Gen II Vipers (after '96-ish) are around 650 lbs.
Here in the States, a complete crate motor runs $13-17K,
depending on where you look. Probably quite a bit
more than a standard LS6. But these engines can be
tuned to 700-777 horses, all naturally aspirated. With forced induction, 800-1000 is
not out of the question.
For the ultimate in modern Chevy performance, you
might want to try the 427TT package by Lingenfelter:
http://innotech.racerplanet.com/s6.jpg
Keep in mind those times were achieved with Mickey
Thompson E/T "drag radials". They are slightly
treaded and are indeed street legal (Department of
Transportation approved), but they're really no good for turning.
Lingenfelter and Doug Rippie Motorsports will also do
500 horses, naturally aspirated.
>> Edited by Guibo on Friday 12th July 00:23
If you have a good workshop you can put any engine onto any gearbox. Adapter plates are actually quite easy to make if you have the right gear and some know-how. Ive done lots of engines to some very weird gearbox arrangements. Its not rocket science people.
The use of the Chevrolet engine in the Ultima is perhaps a good choice. Why?? first because the distributor is at the right end for a start !!!!!!
The alloy block will give you no more power than a cast iron unit. The alloy block is about 50 pounds lighter. It still has cast iron sleeves in the bores and cast iron bearing caps. Stick with the iron block/alloy heads configuration. There is a company in the UK that is now offering bellhousing conversions for engine/gearbox swaps. Eg: Porsche G50 to BMW V12, Jag V12 chev V8 Rover V8.
If you want an all alloy engine to start off with , how about Chevvys new LS1 engine ????? 400 hp standard.
If you are spooning yourselves over a bit of extra weight or the number of clyinders to have, how about a V6? Jaguar got it right with the 6R4 variant in the XJ220 and there are some severly powerful V6's from the east.
But I guess it just dont sound as good to say 'Ive got a Turbo 4 in there' a la Lotus, when you could say 'Ive got 8 cylinders and enough torque to turn the earth'
The use of the Chevrolet engine in the Ultima is perhaps a good choice. Why?? first because the distributor is at the right end for a start !!!!!!
The alloy block will give you no more power than a cast iron unit. The alloy block is about 50 pounds lighter. It still has cast iron sleeves in the bores and cast iron bearing caps. Stick with the iron block/alloy heads configuration. There is a company in the UK that is now offering bellhousing conversions for engine/gearbox swaps. Eg: Porsche G50 to BMW V12, Jag V12 chev V8 Rover V8.
If you want an all alloy engine to start off with , how about Chevvys new LS1 engine ????? 400 hp standard.
If you are spooning yourselves over a bit of extra weight or the number of clyinders to have, how about a V6? Jaguar got it right with the 6R4 variant in the XJ220 and there are some severly powerful V6's from the east.
But I guess it just dont sound as good to say 'Ive got a Turbo 4 in there' a la Lotus, when you could say 'Ive got 8 cylinders and enough torque to turn the earth'
quote:
The alloy block will give you no more power than a cast iron unit. The alloy block is about 50 pounds lighter. It still has cast iron sleeves in the bores and cast iron bearing caps. Stick with the iron block/alloy heads configuration.
Hot Rod magazine had a special engine issue this spring (I wish they were all engine issues instead of....) and their weight figures were a little different. For a 400ci engine the steel version was 202 lbs and the aluminum with sleeves was 92 lbs. They had a picture of a guy picking it up. For a 383ci engine the weight loss would be less but thats a fair amount of weight to save in a race car. But for $6000 dollars in a road / track car i dunno. There are alot more interesting things to do with 6k.
Thats what is so great about building these cars is the customization.
If it's available in the UK, you might want to check
out this month's Car & Driver. There's an article about
a guy who builds custom dune-buggies. Uses the
Northstar V8, twin-turbo'ed to produce 810 horses. Engine
weight was slightly above 400lbs, as I recall.
The article should be online within a month.
out this month's Car & Driver. There's an article about
a guy who builds custom dune-buggies. Uses the
Northstar V8, twin-turbo'ed to produce 810 horses. Engine
weight was slightly above 400lbs, as I recall.
The article should be online within a month.
Chevrolet all aluminium LS1 5.7 would be good. I have them here and import them plus can build them to your specs. My site is www.chevroletls1.com if you want to see what they look like. The US Ultimas use this engine so I'm told. Mike.
If you're thinking about Chevy Engine combos, and you want to be involved with the selection of components or the hands on buildup of your motor then you should check out www.chevytalk.com. They have a performance engine forum and a fuel injection forum. There are some really bright guys who have had decades of experience building chevy smallblocks. There are even a couple of retired nascar mechanics as I recall. I've used the fuel injection forum quite a bit to get help tuning my injection. Its the best source that I've found on the net for chevy related info.
Cheers!
-Mack
Cheers!
-Mack
the V 12 is a full Alluminium block i am planning to build one with a BMW V12
quote:
quote:
The American Speed Engines hopefully come with an aluminum block. I doubt the sedan BMW V12 is an aluminum block but I presume the F1 engine is.
Aluminum block is $4k extra. I think the Aluminum head is standard?
Hi Alfasteve,
Mclaren used a V12 that is somewhat similar to the engine that you have. Their V12 block was probably uprated to handle the extra torque and horsepower. The motor probably also had a billet crank and billet or titanium rods among other things. What are your plans for the motor? Do you just want to run the motor as stock or do you plan on upgrading the motor? How much HP are you wanting? Have you checked with all the BMW tuners for uprated parts (stronger crank, rods, ported heads, etc)? You could probably modify your V12 to produce more power. I would also check with Crower www.crower.com . They may be able to custom make you a stroked crank, stronger connecting rods, new cams, etc... Sounds like a fun project. I'd also try to research the differences between your block and the Mclaren.
Happy Hunting.
Cheers!
-Mack
Mclaren used a V12 that is somewhat similar to the engine that you have. Their V12 block was probably uprated to handle the extra torque and horsepower. The motor probably also had a billet crank and billet or titanium rods among other things. What are your plans for the motor? Do you just want to run the motor as stock or do you plan on upgrading the motor? How much HP are you wanting? Have you checked with all the BMW tuners for uprated parts (stronger crank, rods, ported heads, etc)? You could probably modify your V12 to produce more power. I would also check with Crower www.crower.com . They may be able to custom make you a stroked crank, stronger connecting rods, new cams, etc... Sounds like a fun project. I'd also try to research the differences between your block and the Mclaren.
Happy Hunting.
Cheers!
-Mack
Hi Mack
Thanks
about the engine i want to do all possible to get reliabel power but also cost efective
so i can have the cranck be lightend and balanced also the rods
will use special pistons to raise the compr to 11.5 to 1
and the heads will be flowed and bigger valves and offcourse camshaft
an sp0ec inlet manifold anddistles motormanagement sys
hope to see 480 to 500 Hp and offcourse reliabel
quote:
Hi Alfasteve,
Mclaren used a V12 that is somewhat similar to the engine that you have. Their V12 block was probably uprated to handle the extra torque and horsepower. The motor probably also had a billet crank and billet or titanium rods among other things. What are your plans for the motor? Do you just want to run the motor as stock or do you plan on upgrading the motor? How much HP are you wanting? Have you checked with all the BMW tuners for uprated parts (stronger crank, rods, ported heads, etc)? You could probably modify your V12 to produce more power. I would also check with Crower www.crower.com . They may be able to custom make you a stroked crank, stronger connecting rods, new cams, etc... Sounds like a fun project. I'd also try to research the differences between your block and the Mclaren.
Happy Hunting.
Cheers!
-Mack
quote:
I read a reply that someone knows a copmpany wich makes adaptar plates to fit a Porsche gearbox to a BMW V12
wich company is that..??
I think RV engineering in essex does these adaptor plates, he makes the Nemisis so his number will be in the back of UK kit-car mags.
The V12 route in a mid engine car is one he has done and might be able to provide other goodies such as headers etc...
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